El Beast - Initial design phase, comments and critique welcomed!

[A_Camera]

Ok great, thanks - glad you agree with my thinking then!

I've just done a mass analysis on the finished machine and its coming in at just shy of 190kg... I know mass is but one suggestion of rigidity but that's not far off 3 times the mass of my current machine.

I've also taken the opportunity to change to a HGR25 rail and HGR25HA carriages on the Y-axis since there is more space now.

Had a quote back for all motion parts, it was pretty reasonable for ground screws and HIWIN rails. Think I'm good to pull the trigger on those parts?

This is certainly going to be one of the most beautiful and best machines I have seen. Seeing and following your posts I am sure that the quality will match the beauty and it will not just be a "beautiful blond" with only good looks and sexy appearance, but it will also have massive quality and accuracy attributes.

I also like the idea of protective side covers, I think this is important because of several reasons, apart from the most obvious that it keeps most of the chips inside the working table area, it also works pretty efficiently when the cutter is broken and comes flying at you like a deadly projectile at high speed. I also have side walls around mine and that have stopped two such projectiles already from hitting me, so it is definitely a good idea to design that protection from the start. I actually don't understand how other people dare to run these machines without any protection at all, some not even using protective goggles. Perhaps they never make mistakes and never break a mill bit, I don't know, but that's their business.

The only thing I'd do differently in your design regarding the walls is that I'd make them easily removable, preferably without the need of unscrewing. This is because it helps placing the work piece/vice/measuring instruments and so on on the table more easily. It also allows working on longer than the table work pieces if you would need it some day.

The other thing you should consider is the mass. 190kg is a very heavy thing, which is very good for a machine, but it sets some requirements for the table also. No point building such heavy machine if the table it is on is not stable enough, which I am sure you know very well also.

The other thing about the mass you have to consider is the ability to move it around. Perhaps it is a non-issue, but anyway, if you one day have to move it just a little bit, it is going to be a very difficult task if you haven't thought about that during the design. My machine is only about 90kg but to move that around on my own is not possible, so I have to lower the machine on wheels to do that, and even so it is not something which is done in a minute or two, first I have to lift the machine then remove the wooden blocks it is standing on then lower down on two wheels and do the same for the back, or the front part, depending on where I start. Mine is standing on it's own feet, so it is a bit easier than it would be for yours.

Perhaps you have these questions covered/solved already, but before starting the machine build, I'd build the table to build it on and made sure the table is extremely easy to rotate and move around during the work. It is going to be necessary to have easy access to all sides, that's for sure.

Anyway, it is very interesting to follow up on your work and see the progress. Good luck with the rest of the work as well, and don't forget too keep us updated, both here and on the Zone.

[Zeeflyboy]

Boyan, you are clearly a man of high standards which I respect, and I thank you for your advice. I just hope that when I start building it doesn't become painful for you to watch ;)

The only thing I'd do differently in your design regarding the walls is that I'd make them easily removable

It would be nice to have them removable, but they need to be water tight for underwater cutting of carbon fibre. I think making them rapidly removable may be tricky whilst also being sure I'm not going to flood my work bench. I get on okay with the current version which is quite similar, but I will have a think about whether I can do anything to make at least one side removable.

The other thing you should consider is the mass. 190kg is a very heavy thing, which is very good for a machine, but it sets some requirements for the table also.

The table is crazy strong and rigid... In fact I think the table is probably 100kg or more itself! It's constructed from some very beefy pine struts, big slabs of 18mm moisture resistant MDF and topped with 40mm solid oak.... here are some pics from when I was building it with one of my friends just out of interest (not that you asked):

Main frame:




Skinned and being massaged to perfection





Controller mount and utility draw:




Finished table:

The other thing about the mass you have to consider is the ability to move it around. Perhaps it is a non-issue, but anyway, if you one day have to move it just a little bit, it is going to be a very difficult task if you haven't thought about that during the design. My machine is only about 90kg but to move that around on my own is not possible, so I have to lower the machine on wheels to do that, and even so it is not something which is done in a minute or two, first I have to lift the machine then remove the wooden blocks it is standing on then lower down on two wheels and do the same for the back, or the front part, depending on where I start. Mine is standing on it's own feet, so it is a bit easier than it would be for yours.

It won't need to move very often, but when it does it will probably be a case of having to separate the gantry and the main bed... unless I just pick up an old engine hoist perhaps. Actually that's not a bad idea - perhaps I should built in some hoist points?

Moving heavy things is ultimately just an engineering challenge!


Just in case any one is interested, this is the Man Cave I built last year, which is the home for this future machine.... I also have to try and find space for a Wabceo D4000 lathe:

[A_Camera]

Very nice place, but of course, I am not surprised to see that you man cave looks this nice and tidy. Thanks for sharing the images.

Otherwise I agree, moving heavy objects is just an engineering question but it is good to consider it in advance.

[Zeeflyboy]

Thanks

Yeah you might have saved me some grief by making me think about hoist points early on!

[Zeeflyboy]

Slight tangent again but I just wanted to share this beautiful bit of kit that just landed on my doorstep...

I've been quite excited waiting for this to arrive:




It's a 3D touch probe called the TPA2 by Kurokesu... absolute piece of art! It's filled with di-electric oil (de-oxit I'm guessing) to prevent oxidation of the Tungsten carbide contacts which should keep it working reliably for a long time!

Looking forward to getting this up and running, if it works half as good as it looks it should bring a new level of accuracy to my work. I was waiting for this before kicking off any machining for "El Beast" so that I can use it to verify dimensions and for accurate two sided machining.


edit - got the concentricity at the tip dialled in to a consistent +/- 0.002mm so 0.004mm total.... just pushing hard on the spindle causes more variation than that on this machine so I think that is good enough for now!

[A_Camera]

Thanks

Yeah you might have saved me some grief by making me think about hoist points early on!

Sorry.

[Zeeflyboy]

Wheels are in motion... Rails/carriages/screws/accessories have been quoted and paid for, and I've managed to get the milled bottom frame extrusions ordered too. I am having some 1204 screws ground for a different project which will unfortunately mean around 20 days lead time on the motion components, but this isn't going to be a quick build anyway as I'm going to be held back by only budgeting a small amount each month towards it's completion.

Looking forward to be able to get started on some of it. Plan is to build the bottom frame first as I have enough 20mm eco-cast in stock to get cracking and the extrusions should arrive middle of the month. It'll also be good to get that built first to make sure I don't have any alignment issues with the design, if I end up having to change how it's oriented then better to get that nailed first then figure out the changes that the X-gantry would require as a result.