Router Build number 2

[Boyan Silyavski]

Charlie there is no cutting corners when it comes to having high quality finish in Ali. The machine needs to be Strong and Dense which by nature of the beast means heavy and when talking large format like 8x4 gets very heavy and expensive quickly.! . . . . Rush into this without good design and you'll regret it trust me.!

My machine quickly made me spend a lot of money. Initial plan was 1300x1300. making it full will cost around 2k more, including materials and parts. Maybe even a bit more. I knew that from the beginning and decided its worth the effort.

Boyans machine is strong and heavy but nothing special in it's design, Even if he think's it is.! . . . However he's correct that no point trying to re-invent the wheel so if you havent got room to go vertical then stay with conventional design and just build it strong.

Not that the machine is sth original in it self. We have seen similar and i have been inspired from similar.
But i believe that still there are really a couple of Great things about the design:
-$ per performace and generally all was optimized to save cash from here and there
-ability to DIY at home with only cut off saw and Mig gun.
-absolute minimum of milled or laser cut parts
-no vibrations, yes it gives the thump sound when hit with a hammer , not the ring sound
-Z axis is absolutely my original design with lowest overhang i have seen around and even ignoring the aluminum spindle enclosure machine will perform similarly. In other words this design removes the need of double gantry type machines, as they will not add sth very benefitial on the table, when both compared

The most special thing was that i did not do any mistakes so cost was as expected :-) and the performance met my expectations.

I still want to see a DiY machine that weights 800kg, has a work area of 1300x2600x200 and mills in steel with Z fully extended without ringing and perfect finish with 3kw spindle. Ok,will stop bragging, its obvious that i love my machine

Of course it couldn't have been able to happen without the help of others, Dean and Johnathan mainly.

[charlieuk]

I know it may not be exactly the perfect way to do it but I'm still trying to think of ideas to allow me to achieve both goals and was wondering about doing something like in this pic wether its from ali or steel and that is to have some removable plate that bolt to the side that interlock into the frame that would give extra stiffness for when I want to cut ali however could be removed as and when I want to cut ply. This would also allow me to use the narrow gantry layout.

is it a workable idea or not worth the effort?

[routercnc]

Hi Charlie,

That closer plate would be very expensive, especially aluminium. Is the idea that the ply panel would hang out through the gap?

The problem with that approach would be making sure that the rails mounted on top of the long extrusions did not see any load / deformation when the closer plate was added. I think if you put a DTI onto them and mounted / demounted the closer plate the rail would move as you tighten the bolts. Best to get it all rigid, using epoxy levelling if desired, then leave it alone.

The other issue would be the stiffness in the lateral direction (i.e. towards and away from the other long side) would still be low, even with the closer plate. Usually this is helped with supporting posts which have some section in the Y direction - for example short extrusions of the same dimension as the long extrusion but turned on their end . . .or if done in steel then box sections turned on their end.

Google 'Joes 4x4 hybrid' (cnc zone) for machines in landscape format rather then portrait format - not saying I'd go with a machine like that as I'd say some of the features are a bit out of date now but worth a look over, plus the gantry gets quite wide.

[Boyan Silyavski]

Charlie,

Use 100x100x3 or 4mm box section, weld it and you dont need any diagonal bracing and similar. Just a simple table. Cheapest and strongest.

[JAZZCNC]

Ok,will stop bragging, its obvious that i love my machine

Of course it couldn't have been able to happen without the help of others, Dean and Johnathan mainly.

No Don't stop Bragging you have every right you've made an excellent machine so should be very proud. I was wrong in how I worded it and wasn't my intention to pull your machine down so please don't take that way.
My point was mostly that your Design isn't anything special or unique that hasn't been done before, only so many ways to build these things.!! . . . Yes it's got few bits which aren't the norm and some parts are way overly engineered (which IMO is wasteful. Excess Over engineering just costs money and lowers performance) . . But in general the format is the same as many others which is mostly what I meant to get over to Charlie.



Charlie:

Just bite the bullet mate and build it strong from the get-go.! . . Strong machine will cut ply, maybe not at ideal feeds but will do it without blinking. Weak machine will just wreck aluminium every time.

[charlieuk]

what is your definition of strong dean? steel with servos???? like the vertical machine you posted a picture of ???

which design would be better to go for if built strong??

I will happily build it however just not sure at the moment at what level it needs to be at.

many thanks

[JAZZCNC]

what is your definition of strong dean? steel with servos???? like the vertical machine you posted a picture of ???

which design would be better to go for if built strong??

I will happily build it however just not sure at the moment at what level it needs to be at.

many thanks

The materials it's built from are important but far more important is the design. The vertical machine I've shown isn't design I'd suggest for high quality cutting of Aluminium. It's designed for cutting woods and sign material which it is more than strong enough to do without being over built as to rob it of acceleration/speed.

The problem you have is that to cut woods correctly requires higher feed rates. To produce high quality finish in aluminium required for moulds requires very ridged design and this by it's nature means having to be built from dense often heavy materials. It also needs certain amount of speed/acceleration for 3D surfaces moulds use. This weight conflicts with high feeds unless the rest of the components match up and this unfortunatly means taking the servo route and everything that goes with it.

This dilemma then gets componded by size. Small/Med machines are managable but when you get into 8x4 or even 4x4 it up's the game to another level.
If you want high quality finish in aluminium then you really really need to look long hard at design and what components your going to put with it. Any weak area will be magnified when it comes to surface finish in aluminium.

[charlieuk]

ok so sounding like the thing to do for now is to scrap the idea of being able to feed a full sheet of ply through and just focus on the aluminium thing and try and make it as compact as possible while keeping a 650 x 1270 table area Then to dream about a 3rd 8 x 4 machine in the distant future.

Any pictures of a 'strong' 600 x 900 size machine I should be using for inspiration?

[Boyan Silyavski]

Any pictures of a 'strong' 600 x 900 size machine I should be using for inspiration?

My first build from signature, that i did for a friend. Free plans in Sketchup are somewhere in the build. if you are not happy with gantry you could do that from alulminum L shaped or box shaped, though i dont see a reason. that machine is 400x1000x180 but you can widen it without changing anything. all else stay same. It can support up to 5-7kw spindle without any problem. but put a 2.2kw or 3kw spindle there and you have it.


I dont know what exactly you are looking at, Charlie? Why the indecision? The above said is easy to do and i could send you the plans for free if you dont find them in the thread. I could send you for free also the plans of my second machine, but you have to shorten it yourself for half sheet and figure how to put it together, cause i simply dont have a time to support that plans on every step of the way. Each of them will result in a machine that is tested, proven and without any weak spots

As Dean said my designs could not be the greatest innovations, but both machines a build, tested and have no faults.


PS. I have not cut aluminum lately but here is a short video i made once. 6mm bit, full depth i believe at ~2000mm/min. Perfect cut and perfect mirror like finish, though can not be well seen on video. listen to the sound of the machine, then go youtube and compare. Did i say Z fully extended...

[charlieuk]

Right well I have finally moved back to the uk, I thought it was best to wait until I was back so I could have a bit of time to re asses, think and deside what I had room for and also take a look at the steel that I was given. It is 100x100 x5mm wall so a little heavier than what people have said so hope that is ok and I have nearly 20m in total so should be plenty there although was thinking of making the legs of something a little lighter weigh?

I have decided on a work area that will allow a max 1220 x 600 to be cut but with the focus on aluminium and forget full sheets for the moment.

I don't really want to do the hole epoxy level thing so will need to figure the best place to build the adjustment in to the axis's

If it is easier and up for the job I will use aluminium extrushion for the gantry.

So back to the drawing board and to start planing how to do the frame.