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31-12-2017 #1
Thanks boyan, i have not ordered anything apart from the steel for the frame and while spending the whole of january welding it together i will wait until that is completed before confirming other parts to order. i have seen loads of build logs on here from people who have rushed in and bought the parts before asking and i will not be making that mistake. i am not expecting this machine to turn out how it looks in cad software or in my head but what i am expecting is knowledge from trial and error. that is the way i always like to learn because if you can fix an error then thats a new skill you get to keep :)
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31-12-2017 #2
Morning, unsure what you decided for drivers but if going the Leadshine AM882 route I'd order them now took about a month for mine to arrive from Hong Kong.
You can buy EU equivalent Leadshine EM806's but they're twice the price and the specifications seem identical both made by leadshine. AM882's you will not find available from UK seller if you do link me to him please lol so i can buy another 4. The only difference I can see between the EM806 and AM882 is they have different dip switch settings relating to auto motor setup but both support autotuning making this an non issue.
Don't buy 2nd hand like I did didn't save enough money to pay for the non working one I got I ended up buying a new one for £60 delivered, quick tip reduce the chances of important tax by making 4 separate orders to 2 different address's.
Personally I'd order the Hiwin's and ballscrew in at same time and from personal experience this time I would make the Hiwin's 20cm longer than the ballscrews. I'd want the Hiwin's and ballscrews before I started to make the frame after all the frame has to fit the Hiwin's and ballscrews not the other way round. You can't practically cut ballscrews down I rang a company in Leicester that specialise in ballscrew repairs to see how much to end machine a ballscrew was. It was about twice the price of buying the ballscrew from China with BK/BF fittings for the machining only.
If I had to order the Hiwin rail in UK I would use cncforyou which sells original carriages but a clone rail but I would just order from China/HK as my experiences so far have been mostly positive.Last edited by Desertboy; 31-12-2017 at 10:39 AM.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...60cm-work-area My first CNC build WIP 120cm*80cm
If you didn't buy it from China the company you bought it from did ;)
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31-12-2017 #3
I would only ever buy Leadshine drives from a reputable source, as there are a lot of counterfeit drives about.
Personally, I've often wondered why the AM series got discontinued so quickly, but I suspect it was to do with forgeries. IIRC Leadshine superseded to the EM series in well under 2 years, but by that point you could pick up the AM drives cheap in lots of places. So either there was some major internal redesign, or they needed to get a step ahead of forgeries. I suspect the latter, and the AM firmware was easy to retrieve (the Chinese are renowned for their ability to extract such things, using methods you wouldn't think were possible), and the EM not so, which is why it's not yet been copied.
Most older digital drives are copies of Leadshine, which in turn were re-designed copies of Geckos, so you can't say Leadshine are just a victim in the whole counterfeit drive area, but they at least build reliable drives, and didn't deny for years they had an inherent design flaw which meant they could randomly blow up during power up (it's a shame JohnS isn't around anymore, as it's what ultimately forced him to use Chinese drives, and he liked a good rant on the subject).Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.
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31-12-2017 #4
I don't know if anyone has done a controlled side-by-side comparison of the AM882 and the EM806. I bought the EM drives for my machine as I was fed up with buying things that seemed to go obsolete almost as soon as they were delivered and the EM series was still fairly new on the street, with supposedly better anti-resonance algorithms, etc. That was around 3 years ago but the AM drives are still going strong! However, I can say that I am very happy with my EM drives - no resonances ever been apparent, and the anti-stall is very useful if for some reason the gantry has gone out of square and loads get too high on rapid feed. Machine stops quickly without tearing itself apart. Would the AM drives have worked as well? Dunno!
One day I'll make up a serial cable and try to set up the autotune properly. Still slightly confused about how that's supposed to work with a dual-motor setup as you clearly can't do it with the motors connected to the ballscrews, but it doesn't seem to make sense to try to tune the motors when they're unloaded.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Neale For This Useful Post:
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31-12-2017 #5
I have an Am and two EM's on my milling machine and I can't see much of a difference to be honest.
However, for my new router I am using four EM's. As you say, Neale, the stall function really works, I had my milling machine travel out of bounds without a limit switch and as soon as it hit the end, the driver stopped it preventing any damage. Also good for when you make a mistake and go too severe with your cut, it soon stalls the movement and prevents further damage.
My thought is, if you can afford it, buy EM's from Zapp, they are actually quite reasonably priced and it's just a one off expense anyway and it supports a UK firm. If you really are on a very tight budget, buy AM's from China, but expect customs duty, some wait and at the end of the day, you are not saving much more than a round of beers, if that.Last edited by Edward; 31-12-2017 at 01:29 PM.
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31-12-2017 #6
Customs duty is fickle but split your purchases and send to friends to eliminate them for stuff like this. I paid £15 on my first 2 and nothing on the next 3 and the one that was faulty I probably blew up as I also blew up a toroidal transformer so that's down to me being crap lol.
I can understand what your saying but you can buy 4 New AM882's for £240 delivered vs £440 for the EM806's that's quite a few rounds of beers in Leicester lol. If I was on a budget it's here I'd save my £200 to spend elsewhere say on PSU or upgrade the ballscrews/Hiwin sizes.
The limit is £40 from China I've found split the deliveries and anything under £100 you don't get charged. I spent less than £70 on tax on my router build and over £1200 from China and most my tax was the ballscrews.
I think the £200 buys you a replacement EM806 if one goes wrong which is a good warranty for me ;)
I too have crashed 2 out of 3 axis on my router and stall protection kicked straight in ;) so if I have clones I have working clones.
There is after all 2 ways to clone this drive
1. Make an exact clone with same chips or equiv and use the same firmware, done right the difference between the original and clone is minimal and sometimes clones are actually better.
2. Put a cheap driver in a copy AM882 box and the stall protection ports are not connected to anything lol. Hack the firmware so the dip switches make sense.Last edited by Desertboy; 31-12-2017 at 02:19 PM.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...60cm-work-area My first CNC build WIP 120cm*80cm
If you didn't buy it from China the company you bought it from did ;)
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31-12-2017 #7
That's what we need is a side by side comparison, when I build my next router I might go with EM806's (Although planning the easy servo drives with matching motors) just to compare with same toroidal PSU setup. They are plug compatible so could relatively easy swap them over just for testing.
They don't sell EM806's on alixpress and the suppliers I contacted said they don't sell them in Asia they are only sold in US and Europe but I always take what suppliers say with a pinch of salt lol.
On the clone issue I think it's how good a clone is it? If the clone performs and works exactly the same then the issue is slight, if it's a poor clone then problems occur.
I have no idea if my AM's are clones but the internals look identical when I stripped them down and they all seem to perform the same. Almost silent performance if I set the microsteps to 32.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_u5ov-9cc
I'm going to set them to 8 for now which makes them sound like normal whiney steppers but more torque of course.Last edited by Desertboy; 31-12-2017 at 01:41 PM.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...60cm-work-area My first CNC build WIP 120cm*80cm
If you didn't buy it from China the company you bought it from did ;)
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31-12-2017 #8
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The Following User Says Thank You to Boyan Silyavski For This Useful Post:
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31-12-2017 #9
What's your opinion on
http://www.leadshineusa.com/productt...y-servo-motors
If I understand it these are not real servos but somewhere in betweenLast edited by Desertboy; 31-12-2017 at 02:45 PM.
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...60cm-work-area My first CNC build WIP 120cm*80cm
If you didn't buy it from China the company you bought it from did ;)
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31-12-2017 #10
I decided long ago - No to closed loop steppers. Too close to real servos price. 750w servos from BST will much better. Mine machine is all over 400W Samsung servos and i could not be more than happy with them. I doubt this machine will be heavier or much different than mine anyway. If i have to repeat, i will go the same way, like new used second hand brand servos from reputable seller, together with cables and so. If i am making the machine for a client, then new 750w chinese servos. But that's me.
PS. Just as a side note, brand servos like mine and the panasonic will spin to 6k rpm happily, as opposed to cheap servos. So actually you will never use them at 100%.Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 31-12-2017 at 03:06 PM.
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