Aluminium Extrusion Router Build

[NFryer]

So the real point of this lecture being is it really worth paying 4 to 5 x per axis more for the extra speed you won't use, Torque you won't need, resolution you can't use and with the only real viable contender being slightly smoother movement.?

Then factor into the mix the potential complexitys of setting up servos, which these days is much simpler. However they don't tolerate poor setup or sloppy electrics and require higher degree of eletrical work to avoid potential problems which can affect them. Ie Electrical interference.
This add's to expense because will require line filters etc and highe quality cables which stepper system will happily run without.

Stepper systems in general are bullet proof when sized and installed/setup correctly.

My advise is save the Money and spend in other areas. Ie Spindle or better ballscrews.
You'll probaly save £300 per axis so that's £1200 which would go nicely towards an ATC spindle.!!

Hi Jazz, thank you for that wealth of information, it is much appreciated. Well I think that I will go the closed loop stepper route. Having a quick look around the Leadshine CS-D508 combined with the NEMA 24 3Nm ES-M22430 seem like a good option. Would a 3Nm stepper be enough to drive the twin ballscrew X axis or do you think I would need a NEMA 34 motor. Having said that i would like a add a 4th rotary axis at some point and mount that at the back when the belt goes across to connect the X axis ballscrew so I might go twin motors on the X axis with the CSMIO to drive them. By ATC spindle do you mean auto tool change spindle?

[JAZZCNC]

Would a 3Nm stepper be enough to drive the twin ballscrew X axis or do you think I would need a NEMA 34 motor. Having said that i would like a add a 4th rotary axis at some point and mount that at the back when the belt goes across to connect the X axis ballscrew so I might go twin motors on the X axis with the CSMIO to drive them. By ATC spindle do you mean auto tool change spindle?

No 3Nm won't be enough for 2 screws but would if had motor on each screw. Single motor you'll need 6 or 8nm nema 34.
I've used these on couple of bigger machines, nice drives and motors and never had any issues.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...3f34a881y5B3hn

Yes ATC = Auto tool changer.

[NFryer]

No 3Nm won't be enough for 2 screws but would if had motor on each screw. Single motor you'll need 6 or 8nm nema 34.
I've used these on couple of bigger machines, nice drives and motors and never had any issues.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...3f34a881y5B3hn

Yes ATC = Auto tool changer.

Hi Jazz, that Lichuan drive does look very nice, if I go down the nema 34 route instead of twin motors on the X axis. For the nema 24 motors I was looking at the Leadshine CS-D508 drive which appears to be very similar to the Lichuan LCD375H drive or maybe the Leadshine ES-D808 which I think is similar to the Lichaun LCDA808H that you used. On a side note I wouldn't mind supporting UK companies like Zapp but the price difference is huge. From Aliexpress I could get 4 ES-D808 drives and 4 ES-M22430 motors for under £600 and from Zapp the same price is nearly £1200! Even if you get charged £100 from customs this is a no brainer to buy from China. Even a CSMIO IP-S is roughly £150 cheaper if you buy it directly from CS Labs, and there is no customs charge as it's from the EU. I've got another small question, how much distance does the motor shaft have to go into the HTD pulley. If I used 15mm belts and pulleys which are approximately 25 to 30mm wide, if I loose 3mm to the mount would there still be enough shaft length to securely hold the pulley?

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Jazz, that Lichuan drive does look very nice, if I go down the nema 34 route instead of twin motors on the X axis. For the nema 24 motors I was looking at the Leadshine CS-D508 drive which appears to be very similar to the Lichuan LCD375H drive or maybe the Leadshine ES-D808 which I think is similar to the Lichaun LCDA808H that you used.

I've also used the LCD375H and they are ok as well but let down by only being 50V which means running around 44V which ideally more would be better.

Even a CSMIO IP-S is roughly £150 cheaper if you buy it directly from CS Labs, and there is no customs charge as it's from the EU.

Carefull here because in Poland you'll pay I think it's 23% Vat on top of web price shown then think it's about £36 carriage so difference might not be that big. Gary doesn't charge shippping over £250.

I've got another small question, how much distance does the motor shaft have to go into the HTD pulley. If I used 15mm belts and pulleys which are approximately 25 to 30mm wide, if I loose 3mm to the mount would there still be enough shaft length to securely hold the pulley?

If what your saying is you'll lose 3mm. Ie: lets say pulley boss is 30mm wide and your 27mm into it then yes that will be perfectly fine.
Can get away with 3/4 into the the pulley width any less and your pushing it.

[NFryer]

If what your saying is you'll lose 3mm. Ie: lets say pulley boss is 30mm wide and your 27mm into it then yes that will be perfectly fine.
Can get away with 3/4 into the the pulley width any less and your pushing it.

Hi Jazz, reading a few of the forum threads, I think most people use the 5mm pitch HTD pulleys with 15mm wide belts. Is there a certain number of teeth engaged with the pulley for best torque transfer, as I was looking at maybe the 20 tooth pulley, which is 26mm wide. The motor shaft with give me about 20mm so this should be ok I think. On the ballscrew shafts do you file flats onto the end to give the grub screws a better bite on it?

As for the ATC spindle my take on this is that I would need the ATC spindle, some form of linear or round tool holder, a compressor as I think that the tools are held in the spindle with pneumatics. How do the tool changes work, are they programmed into the G code that Mach 3 processes. I Have seen that each tool on a linear tool holder has a seperate set of coordinates and the tool height is reset each time and with the circular holders you need to rotate the holder to select tools, how is this programmed in. It all seems a bit complicated to me.

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Jazz, reading a few of the forum threads, I think most people use the 5mm pitch HTD pulleys with 15mm wide belts. Is there a certain number of teeth engaged with the pulley for best torque transfer, as I was looking at maybe the 20 tooth pulley, which is 26mm wide.

They say should have 6 or more teeth engaged on the smallest pulley.
Regards the 20T then yes these are fine and what I often use. However it does depend on the Motor shaft to some degree because of the Boss diameter. If using large motors you may have to increase pulley size to suit a Boss that gives enough material left for grub screws after being bored.

On the ballscrew shafts do you file flats onto the end to give the grub screws a better bite on it?

Yes and I use 3 Grub screws in each pulley plus I locitite them on using Strong loctite.

As for the ATC spindle my take on this is that I would need the ATC spindle, some form of linear or round tool holder, a compressor as I think that the tools are held in the spindle with pneumatics.

Yes need compressor for draw bar that pulls toolholder into spindle and also some have Air purge on the taper to keep clean.
The tool holders you can buy. Like these.!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High...ceBeautifyAB=0

How do the tool changes work, are they programmed into the G code that Mach 3 processes. I Have seen that each tool on a linear tool holder has a seperate set of coordinates and the tool height is reset each time and with the circular holders you need to rotate the holder to select tools, how is this programmed in. It all seems a bit complicated to me.

Not in the G-code but into the M6 tool change macro which mach3 uses every time you call for tool in your G-code.
In the G-code each tool change will be called with command like T1 M06. This then tells mach to run M6 macro and change to tool #1.

The M6 macro is where you put all the code required to operate the tool changer. Depending on the type of tool changer will determine how difficult. For instance rack mounted tool holders are easier to code because you just provide coordinates each tool is located in the rack.
Obviously you have to keep track of current tool and tell it where to put back before going to get new tool. Also need to operate few external bits of hardware like Air solenoids at the right times and tell how far lift up and put down etc but in general it's not massive job to create a tool change macro for rack mount.
Now carousel type gets little more involved because lots more going on. Got things whizzing in/out and spinning round which need to be monitored before next step can happen. Then got to keep track of tool again so gets put back in empty holder then decide which way to spin for next tool etc.

So yes could say "It's all bit complicated" but still do-able. Basicly just copy some body else M6 macro and make it fit your needs..Lol

[NFryer]

Yes and I use 3 Grub screws in each pulley plus I locitite them on using Strong loctite.

Hi Jazz, that's the red loctite isn't it? Do you use the blue loctite on other bolts in the machine or is bolts loosening due to vibration not such a problem.

Going back to the ATC spindle have you used one of the Mechatron tool change adaptors for a normal spindle which I found on Sorotec's website https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Tool-cha...m-spindle.html. I think that to get started I would prefer a normal spindle to learn the basics of cnc machining and then to upgrade using this adaptor at a later date.

Finally I'm not the best with the electrical side of things. I shouldn't have a problem building a power supply for the drives, but I'm a bit confused with the wiring between the CSMIO and the drive. I was looking at the Lichuan drive and the Leadshine easy servo drive and both seem to accept 24V input with the use of current limiting resistors on the step and direction inputs for single ended. For the differential connection do you not need the resistors as in the data sheets, the differential connections are shown with a 5V connection. Can you not directly connect the drives to the CSMIO, or do you have to reduce the voltage for the differential connection.