I Considered Tormach

[magicniner]

People can and do do great work on tormach’s, particularly the 1100, in all sorts of materials from wood and plastics to tool steels and titanium.

You missed, "On a good day, with a following wind, if they're lucky and not for long" out of that, the same or better is also true of cheaply converted manual mills, which until they add linear ways, zero-backlash ball screw systems and servos with absolute positioning, is what you get when you buy a Tormach, having spent money which should be getting you some considerably better components.
They sound good in the advertising hype but I assume you haven't worked in the materials you quote as some Tool Steels and Titanium Alloys are among the easiest metals to machine with the right tooling, feeds and speeds.

There are other machines of similar flavours in the way of novakon, skyfire, syil etc. all of which have users doing great work in harder stuff and holding size when they need them to, .

A quick Google and watching the sponsored YouTube content would lead a person to your conclusions, you need to join the forums and private groups for a given machine to get a better overview, some of them are simply not of merchantable quality as delivered, why not read around the subject a little for the one's you've quoted and tell me why? :D

[Snapper]

You missed, "On a good day, with a following wind, if they're lucky and not for long" out of that, the same or better is also true of cheaply converted manual mills, which until they add linear ways, zero-backlash ball screw systems and servos with absolute positioning, is what you get when you buy a Tormach, having spent money which should be getting you some considerably better components.
They sound good in the advertising hype but I assume you haven't worked in the materials you quote as some Tool Steels and Titanium Alloys are among the easiest metals to machine with the right tooling, feeds and speeds.




A quick Google and watching the sponsored YouTube content would lead a person to your conclusions, you need to join the forums and private groups for a given machine to get a better overview, some of them are simply not of merchantable quality as delivered, why not read around the subject a little for the one's you've quoted and tell me why? :D

You still need the rigidity to machine them, which was my point the rigidity is there to do the work just not fast enough to make money in a commercial operation.

I have been in all these groups, quite a long time actually, and don't think I've watched much, if any, sponsored youtube videos. For example I have seen plenty of examples of that guy at NYCCNC's work but I don't think I've ever watched a single one of his videos. All sorts of machines can arrive with similar issues, you will probably have seen yourself how many people have mentioned their HAAS machines arriving well out of spec. The difference is something like a HAAS is delivered and commissioned by one of their engineers who will either set it all right or in some cases send it back to be repaired or replaced. A Tormach, a Syil, a Skyfire, a Novakon, anything of that calibre or below you are on your own really. I think Tormach proabably sells at least 20 machines to every one skyfire, syil or novakon, so a larger number of reported problems is to be expected. Many of the issues with Tormach (mostly backlash related) seem to be relatively simple fixes and their users are happy enough once sorted. I'm of the opinion they should all probably be inspected and put right before being shipped instead of 1/20 or whatever it is but... I can understand you not wanting to take that risk particularly with a machine shipped and supported from overseas.

I'm not particularly defending Tormach here, or looking for an argument, I was just curious about your reasoning. As a follower of these groups yourself you will know that they tend to get trolled by HAAS and similar guys who tell them their machines are a worthless waste of money and they need a HAAS. The trend continues as HAAS owners are trolled and told they can't machine anything harder than aluminium and that they need/should have bought an Okuma or a Mori. It's horses for courses really.

[komatias]

.... It's horses for courses really.

Bingo!

If you can afford the fees for a Haas, go for it.

From a perspective of someone that has to deal with this question from the sales side, it is all down to how much bang for buck you want to get.

A used Haas, will require some electrical work and a forklift to get it in your garage. It can be found for relatively cheap in a dirty possibly beaten up state. Will it produce good parts? Possibly... As with anything used, it will be a gamble.

A Tormach? Non-starter in my books. Equally so for a Novakon. Both run off a PC and that adds one layer of extra control I am starting to dislike. Add to that the R8 spindle taper, low top end RPM and you get a very expensive hobby machine. the Novakons have the servo motor package which is actually quite good but the spindle motor is too large to put an economical power drawbar on them. That said, they would be nice machines for the money with a full enclosure and a servo motor spindle on Bt-30. My last personal machine had the same castings and I was actually very happy with it.

Now we get to the Skyfire/Syil machines. We are looking at a actual rivalry here. If you got the cash and want the best you can get, I recommend a fully featured Syil X7 Combo. It has proper VMC credentials for its size. Both will do rigid tapping, both have servo's but there is a significant difference in build quality. The Skyfire has electrical issues that are being worked on constantly. The Syil X7 Combo... well for now in this light VMC category it is king. Very good customer support from the factory, a growing community and top notch electricals throughout. You do however pay for all that.

If anyone wants to discuss further on the last paragraph, then do reach out.