Troubleshooting non responsive machine- Mach3/Syil x4

[Doddy]

OP: Thanks, that helps a lot. Random googling of the board name/model suggests that these were boards installed by Syil as part of their standard build. There's easy reference to Syil 3's and 4's having the same board. I wouldn't necessarily trust the info from blind but there looks to be some level of consistency. The following was taken off another thread referencing a '3':-

This might be close!!!
Signal name pin I/O of the Signal
7. X pulse
17.X dir
6. Y pulse
8. Y dir
5. Z pulse
16. Z dir
4. A pulse
14. A dir
2. Spindle pulse
1. Spindle dir
3. Signal 1 relay1?
9. Signal 2 relay2?
12. X home input
13. Y home input
10. Z home input
15. A home input
11. E-stop input


and gives us some confidence with the content presented in the images from the OP's post and the XML file he's using.

I'd still recommend the test that I suggested earlier. Part of the logic there (I have to admit my interest petered out towards the end of the wine glass last night whilst typing away) is to understand the basic operational status of the BOB, the wiring and the PC. I know I've only identified the direction pins - that's deliberate and because these are easily measured with a meter, which from your original post I believe you have. I'd like at some point to understand that behaviour on the step pins - but let's address the easy stuff first. There's another thread of thought - actually my first - which was to trace the behaviour of the e-stop but we only now know the pin mapping of the inputs. For now, concentrate on the earlier tests that I described.

The board looks a bit grungy - but photos / lighting can be very deceptive. Again, the tests above will help understand if the board is working.

The statement that you believed you might have been losing steps earlier - that's interesting - it shouldn't result in the absolute freezing of the machine, nor that the e-stop isn't recognised, but might yet be another problem to be resolved. Let's concentrated first on just getting an axis to move.

Mike

[IhateDoug]

I’m standing in front of it atm with a multimeter - just can not figure out where the pins are

Actually disregard that - they are labeled ‘pin xx’ on the board correct?


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[Doddy]

You're absolutely correct, and I've fallen foul of my own criticism of assuming too much. Looking at the board the axis drives are presented onto the IDC headers (the 16-pin black connectors, 5-of) on the board. Okay, that gives us a bit of an issue to understand how these are wired.

I'm guessing there are at least 3 ribbon cables normally plugged into these (I think I did see this on an earlier piccy).

I'm going to change tack back to the e-stop, but I'll post this for now knowing that you're stood in front of the machine scratching your head. Give me 20 minutes to write up another thought.

[IhateDoug]

You're absolutely correct, and I've fallen foul of my own criticism of assuming too much. Looking at the board the axis drives are presented onto the IDC headers (the 16-pin black connectors, 5-of) on the board. Okay, that gives us a bit of an issue to understand how these are wired.

I'm guessing there are at least 3 ribbon cables normally plugged into these (I think I did see this on an earlier piccy).

I'm going to change tack back to the e-stop, but I'll post this for now knowing that you're stood in front of the machine scratching your head. Give me 20 minutes to write up another thought.

No rush - I got plenty of other broken things around the shed I can stand in front of, when ever you get a chance is fine.

There are ribbons normally connected to them, I removed them for the photo (numbered them to insure they go back in the right place)


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[Doddy]

First thing - have you checked the integrity of the fuse, F1, on the board?

Okay, I'm going to post a link to another site that has the schematic for a Syil 4 axis controller board - for no other reason that it will give a good idea of the pinouts of the IDC headers

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/syil-...lp-please.html

The pin bindings are clearly different from this BOB to the BOB on the Syil 4, so I cannot determine which pins on the IDCs are STEP and which are DIRECTION, but I can say that these are EITHER pin 1 or pin 3. Pin 2, 4 and 6 are set to +5V (so the step/dir will be driving the cathode of the opto-isolator on the stepper-drivers in the machine, low-side switching). Pin 5 confuses me - it's a common pin across all axis connected to a 3-pin connector on the 4-axis schematic... possibly an Enable signal to the stepper drivers. Now, I would ask for an image of where ONE of the three ribbons plugs into on the other end - Im expecting into another PCB or a module, and I'd be particularly interested any marking/engraving. ...ah, you've posted already. So you could perform the original tests against both pin-1 and again against pin-3 on the IDCs - one should behave as expected, the other won't.

But, now we know more about your pin mapping and an awful lot more about your BOB, I'd be keen to change from looking at motors and more against the e-stop. It's easier to apply some logical diagnostics against and understand the apparent total lack of interface with the PC.

So, starting again:-

1) Establish a supply ground (we know the BOB is AC driven with onboard rectifier/regulator), so we need a signal ground. You've suggested that you have already measured board supplies etc - do you have a DC ground available to you?, I'll assume you have - you can pick one off the GND on the spindle connector, the centre pin on the 3-pin TO220 packaged regulator, or the "-" pin on the chunky capacitor.
2) Establish which is the signal wire on the ESTOP input to the BOB - measure between either wired input on ESTOP and ground, with the ESTOP activated, and not activated. One of the pins should be consistently 0V (according to that schematic), and the other should switch between 0V and 5V depending on the ESTOP button position. Confirm this.
3) with the IDC ribbon to the DB25 connector for the parallel port on the Syil connected to the board, but with the parallel printer cable disconnected, then I'd measure the voltage from 0V to pin 11 on the parallel port connector on the Syil. Confirm that this changes from 0 to 5 or vice-versa on the actuation/release of the E-Stop.
4) Connect the printer cable from the Syil to the PC. Confirm the behaviour of the Estop control within Mach3.

[IhateDoug]

First thing - have you checked the integrity of the fuse, F1, on the board?

Okay, I'm going to post a link to another site that has the schematic for a Syil 4 axis controller board - for no other reason that it will give a good idea of the pinouts of the IDC headers

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/syil-products/114477-syil-sx3-bob-pinout-help-please.html

The pin bindings are clearly different from this BOB to the BOB on the Syil 4, so I cannot determine which pins on the IDCs are STEP and which are DIRECTION, but I can say that these are EITHER pin 1 or pin 3. Pin 2, 4 and 6 are set to +5V (so the step/dir will be driving the cathode of the opto-isolator on the stepper-drivers in the machine, low-side switching). Pin 5 confuses me - it's a common pin across all axis connected to a 3-pin connector on the 4-axis schematic... possibly an Enable signal to the stepper drivers. Now, I would ask for an image and of the three ribbons plugs into on the other end - Im expecting into another PCB or a module, and I'd be particularly interested any marking/engraving. ...ah, you've posted already. So you could perform the original tests against both pin-1 and again against pin-3 on the IDCs - one should behave as expected, the other won't.

But, now we know more about your pin mapping and an awful lot more about your BOB, I'd be keen to change from looking at motors and more against the e-stop. It's easier to apply some logical diagnostics against and understand the apparent total lack of interface with the PC.

So, starting again:-

1) Establish a supply ground (we know the BOB is AC driven with onboard rectifier/regulator), so we need a signal ground. You've suggested that you have already measured board supplies etc - do you have a DC ground available to you?, I'll assume you have - you can pick one off the GND on the spindle connector, the centre pin on the 3-pin TO220 packaged regulator, or the "-" pin on the chunky capacitor.
2) Establish which is the signal wire on the ESTOP input to the BOB - measure between either wired input on ESTOP and ground, with the ESTOP activated, and not activated. One of the pins should be consistently 0V (according to that schematic), and the other should switch between 0V and 5V depending on the ESTOP button position. Confirm this.
3) with the IDC ribbon to the DB25 connector for the parallel port on the Syil connected to the board, but with the parallel printer cable disconnected, then I'd measure the voltage from 0V to pin 11 on the parallel port connector on the Syil. Confirm that this changes from 0 to 5 or vice-versa on the actuation/release of the E-Stop.
4) Connect the printer cable from the Syil to the PC. Confirm the behaviour of the Estop control within Mach3.

Can a bolt on the frame be used as ground? If so neither have power (I tested bolt to a known power and it showed its power so I take it as the bolts grounded?)
Just my spindle doesn’t have a middle pin and I think I’ve located this capacitor you speak of but unsure where it’s - is?



I’ve tried a few different things and it’s weird
I used pin 4 on the spindle connector (because it has a green and yellow wire coming from it?) with estop on both are 13v and off both are 10v

If I go from the bolt (is reading different then when I first did it above) with estop on both are 0 and estop off the red one is 11 and the white wire 0



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[Doddy]

Can a bolt on the frame be used as ground? If so neither have power (I tested bolt to a known power and it showed its power so I take it as the bolts grounded?)
Just my spindle doesn’t have a middle pin and I think I’ve located this capacitor you speak of but unsure where it’s - is?

Okay, I've looked again at your pictures provided, on this one...



On the Y-Home set of terminals (3 off) there's I think "VCC", "S" and "GND" - with no wires in any. Unscrew the GND terminal post a few turns and put a bit of insulated stranded wire (end stripped) into the terminal and tighten up - this is your ground/0V/whateverIcallit reference point. Wrap the other end of that wire around the meters black probe and insulate that connection - now you're just probing with one hand.

The measurements you've provided from the estop wire make be believe that white is the switch, and the red is the 0v reference. Now that I've realised there's silkscreen printing beneath the terminals you can probably easily verify that.

The one volt measured - surprises me quite a bit, but I'm not convinced that's measured against the correct 0v reference. To drop 4V across the on board pull-up resistors would mean that the logic on board is sinking 2mA into the inputs - feels very wrong.

Okay, from what you've done already - can you reconfirm using the 0v reference from the start of this reply. I do expect that you'll get a more decisive voltage reading on the meter - I'd expect a lot higher than 1V on the white wire / pin 11 as you describe.

Rather than taking images - if you can just rattle off the measured volts - the images are a bit low contrast once they reach the UK :) - also, I guess from what I can see the meter is auto-selecting AC/DC ranges based on it's own determination?, obviously we'd expect DC voltage readings - an AC setting is likely to read 0V even if the pin has a DC voltage on it. I did quickly check - that Fluke looks like a T5-600 which auto-senses AC/DC - not an ideal meter for this but we should get something out of it - but I'm only trusting non-zero voltage readings if the DC indicator is present.

[IhateDoug]

The ribbons go to these black boxes - I can draw a rough wire diagram of helps?

[johngoodrich]

the black boxes are the stepper drivers. they in turn are connected to the motors

[IhateDoug]

the black boxes are the stepper drivers. they in turn are connected to the motors

I’ve tested these before and they had 5v from memory


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