Was about to get a toy- then I did some research...

[Boyan Silyavski]

First off- those are some slick looking machines! Also, I never considered using a cross beam under the frame for dual stepper set-ups.

The round vs profile rail debate is one that has had me torn the most. Undoubtedly profile are superior in theory, in practice, however, I've been somewhat put off by the many worst case scenarios people have posted about when ordering the Chinese kind (which I strongly suspect is the only kind my budget allows). Second, being a first timer, I was hoping to get slightly more parallel mounting tolerance with the round rails (bc self alignment), and they provide more room for mounting ball screws on the same face (although that could also be achieved by spacers on the profile carriages). I'm curious though, in what way do you find profile to be less of a hassle?
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The square rails for me are may be the most important part of the machine in the long run, so there should not be any doubts about that. In fact better buy a smaller size square rails than round rails. mean 15 instead of 20 size , if machine is not intended for heavy duty use . You can always use one carriage more as they are cheap. rail is heavy hence expensive to ship. You get what i say?

About the Chinese square rails, if you buy from a good factory they are same or very similar quality like the Hiwin. You may need to clean a carriage or similar, but most important is to be from a good place.

I buy from these guys https://es.aliexpress.com/store/822038 12 and 15 size. Have not bought from them 20 size , but their rails are very good quality and price. Custom size also, contact them. make sure to buy the long carriages.

[Juranovich]

This is the problem people only focus on those who have had issues, probably because they shout the loudest, but for everyone that as an issue there are 100's more who haven't and work perfectly fine.

Typical case of selection bias... This is what they warned us about in uni!

Not quite sure what your meaning by Less hassle.?

You said that profile rails are better and less hassle, but I think I got the drift now.

The square rails for me are may be the most important part of the machine in the long run, so there should not be any doubts about that. In fact better buy a smaller size square rails than round rails. mean 15 instead of 20 size , if machine is not intended for heavy duty use . You can always use one carriage more as they are cheap. rail is heavy hence expensive to ship. You get what i say?

[...]

I buy from these guys https://es.aliexpress.com/store/822038 12 and 15 size. Have not bought from them 20 size , but their rails are very good quality and price. Custom size also, contact them. make sure to buy the long carriages.

I hear and thanks for the link (and thanks to everyone who's provided useful links to vendors). Theoretical modelling is one thing, but sourcing good materials is always extra hard when you lack experience. Much appreciated!

[Juranovich]

A quick update:

I did some modelling last night based on profile rails so I now have two options. Next I'll compile a shopping list in order to make a price comparison between the two.

Do any of you have suggestions as I plunge into the endless mass of online stores? Preferably suggestions you have personal experience with...I reckon I can always shop at the european stores for fairly safe choices, but I'd be super interested to hear of specific "chinese" vendors/products which might save me a penny.

Below I've compiled a list of recommended vendors/products I've come across on forums (I'll post these so as to avoid duplicates, but also as reference for others that might come across this thread looking for buying advice).

Extrusions: motedis, kjn

rails/ballscrews: https://es.aliexpress.com/store/822038, BST Motion on Aliexpress, linearmotion on ebay

Steppers: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/190...569f5bd5XOOljj

Motion controllers/BoBs/electronics: CNCDrive

Stepper drives: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2DM860H-2...72.m2749.l2649

Spindles: Teknomotor (price worthy (?) italian brand), Huan Yang Shop on AliExpress

General european cnc related stores: zappautomation, dold mechatronik, sorotec, cnc4you

EDIT: Added Lichuan under steppers, Huan Yang under spindles, cnc4you under general and fixed boken ebay link under stepper drives.

[Chaz]

A quick update:

I did some modelling last night based on profile rails so I now have two options. Next I'll compile a shopping list in order to make a price comparison between the two.

Do any of you have suggestions as I plunge into the endless mass of online stores? Preferably suggestions you have personal experience with...I reckon I can always shop at the european stores for fairly safe choices, but I'd be super interested to hear of specific "chinese" vendors/products which might save me a penny.

Below I've compiled a list of recommended vendors/products I've come across on forums (I'll post these so as to avoid duplicates, but also as reference for others that might come across this thread looking for buying advice).

Extrusions: motedis

rails/ballscrews: https://es.aliexpress.com/store/822038, BST Motion on Aliexpress, linearmotion on ebay

Steppers: ??

Motion controllers/BoBs/electronics: CNCDrive

Stepper drives: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2DM860H-2...72.m2749.l2649

Spindles: Teknomotor (price worthy (?) italian brand)

General european cnc related stores: zappautomation, dold mechatronik, sorotec

Certainly the Teknomotor / HSD spindles are good but are pricy. All depends on if you need ATC or want to change tools manually.

[AndyUK]

You can get a Chinese spindle and VFD kit from BST linear too. As always email directly for a quote, mention this forum.

Steppers, ZappAutomation, Cnc4you, and I think people have used Stepperonline (they advertise on here at least)

Stepper Drivers I got from Zapp, Gary the owner posts on here occasionally with a decent discount code.

KJN also do extrusions.

[Juranovich]

You can get a Chinese spindle and VFD kit from BST linear too. As always email directly for a quote, mention this forum.

Steppers, ZappAutomation, Cnc4you, and I think people have used Stepperonline (they advertise on here at least)

Stepper Drivers I got from Zapp, Gary the owner posts on here occasionally with a decent discount code.

KJN also do extrusions.

Thanks, I'll have a look at those!

[Juranovich]

Certainly the Teknomotor / HSD spindles are good but are pricy. All depends on if you need ATC or want to change tools manually.

Thanks for pointing that out! Among European brands (the few I've come across) I find them to be fairly well priced. But maybe you compare them to Chinese models?

On a side note, I never considered getting any electronics from China out of fear of bad quality, but I'm starting to consider my position.

[Chaz]

Thanks for pointing that out! Among European brands (the few I've come across) I find them to be fairly well priced. But maybe you compare them to Chinese models?

On a side note, I never considered getting any electronics from China out of fear of bad quality, but I'm starting to consider my position.

Yep, compared to the cheaper Chinese stuff where quality can range from 'OK' to bad. Keep in mind, even stuff that we consider good like 'Panasonic etc' is almost always Chinese.

[Chaz]

For info, I currently run a 6.8 KW HSD Spindle on my Concrete mill. If you look up my build thread (search for Thor), you will find it. I started with a 4KW Chinese spindle which worked OK. Low / no torque and ER collets, found a 2nd hand HSD spindle and not looked back.

[JAZZCNC]

I never considered getting any electronics from China out of fear of bad quality, but I'm starting to consider my position.

Yep, compared to the cheaper Chinese stuff where quality can range from 'OK' to bad. Keep in mind, even stuff that we consider good like 'Panasonic etc' is almost always Chinese.

I've found the secret with buying Chinese electronics is to buy from the manufacturers directly rather than from sellers of general CNC components ie: BST etc (thou I do buy from Fred). This way your dealing directly with someone who knows the settings etc and got Tech's who can help.

I mostly fit Lichuan closed-loop systems now and I can honestly say that I've only had one faulty drive which got damaged due to me oversizing the transformer by mistake. Also Lichuan replaced it FOC knowing it was my fault as a goodwill gesture.

I've probably fitted 50+ sets of motor/drives ranging from NEMA 23 2nm/50Vdc to NEMA 34 12nm/220Vac along with AC servo's ranging from 400w to 2Kw and not one as failed in use.

I'm not saying any of this as an advert for Lichuan, thou I do recommend them. But more to point out that shouldn't fear Chinese products provided you do the due diligence, which is true even in the EU.

Being totally honest I actually get better support, service, and respect from my Chinese suppliers than I do EU suppliers.! For instance, It's Chinese New year and every year for the last 5 yrs, Fred, at BST as sent me Gift of Chinese Tea with a handwritten thank you letter. Which is in stark contrast to other UK/EU suppliers I use in my main business who some of which I spend in excess of 150K a year with and don't even get a Xmas card from.!!

You can save a lot of money if you take the time and shop around.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/190...569f5bd5XOOljj