Was about to get a toy- then I did some research...

[AndyUK]

For instance, It's Chinese New year and every year for the last 5 yrs, Fred, at BST as sent me Gift of Chinese Tea with a handwritten thank you letter.

Huh. Fred mentioned he was sending me some extra thankyou gift around Chinese New year, but it never turned up. I always wondered what he was talking about... I blame the postie.

[JAZZCNC]

Huh. Fred mentioned he was sending me some extra thankyou gift around Chinese New year, but it never turned up. I always wondered what he was talking about... I blame the postie.

Mine arrived yesterday by Royal mail. It's Chinese Tea(tea leaves in packets) in a decorated tin tea caddy. I got a funny story actually from last year.

Last year he sent something along similar lines but little more novelty wrapped in different shaped packets and selection of tea types. Some of them were wrapped in packets and looked like Faroe Rocher chocolates.! . . . I opened them and threw them on my desk. The phone rang so I answered it just as my mate and colleague walked into the office sat down and greedy fat Git promptly stuffed one in his mouth... I've laughed so much I couldn't speak on the phone his face was a picture..

[Juranovich]

No No No I'm most definitely more THE OUT LAW.!!

The pedant in me wants to point out that yes, my radiators are air-cooled. They're also water-heated!

Could it be that... AndyUK IS THE LAW.!! ??

[NeoMorph]

For info, I currently run a 6.8 KW HSD Spindle on my Concrete mill. If you look up my build thread (search for Thor), you will find it. I started with a 4KW Chinese spindle which worked OK. Low / no torque and ER collets, found a 2nd hand HSD spindle and not looked back.

The problem with hobby CNC machines using full sized spindles is weight. For example the reason most router based CNCs use router is because of weight either bogging the gantry down or causing the Z-axis to fall (like the Shapeoko, Ox etc). I think the Shapeoko actually used a SPRING at one time to help keep the router from dropping and not being able to get back up again. So a proper spindle is out of the question.

New builders also don’t take into account the weight of water in water cooled machines which is why it’s better to use an air cooled one on a smaller hobby machine. Plus water is another thing I would want to keep away from wood. I got some lubricant on my waste board the one time and it had to be replaced because it swelled up over night.

I think everyone I know of (bar one who went water cooled and had to go double belt and larger stepper motors before it would stop bogging down) has gone the air cooled spindle route. But if I could afford all metal underside and stronger steppers or drives there would be no question. In that case it would be water cooled all the way.

At the end of the day it all comes down to cost.

[Clive S]

New builders also don’t take into account the weight of water in water cooled machines which is why it’s better to use an air cooled one on a smaller hobby machine. Plus water is another thing I would want to keep away from wood. I got some lubricant on my waste board the one time and it had to be replaced because it swelled up over night.

I take it you use an air cooled radiator in your lounge then so it does not ruin the carpet

[AndyUK]

I take it you use an air cooled radiator in your lounge then so it does not ruin the carpet

The pedant in me wants to point out that yes, my radiators are air-cooled. They're also water-heated!

[JAZZCNC]

Sorry I know this is not exactly topic related but I'm not standing by and not saying anything on something which is SO WRONG and will potentialy lead others in wrong direction.

New builders also don’t take into account the weight of water in water-cooled machines which is why it’s better to use an air-cooled one on a smaller hobby machine.

A complete load of rubbish, do you know how much water is actually inside a water-cooled Spindle.? approx 250ml or 250grams.! How much does a fan and cowel weigh.?
If the Z axis can't handle that little extra weight then it needs re-thinking.! . . The truth is that if your Z-axis is this weak you cannot fit a Spindle of this size, it's got nothing to do with how it's cooled.

Your comments regards leaks and the damaging the bed is just laughable. They rarely leak when fitted correctly, I've fitted 100+ sets and never had one leak in use unless something caused it, like pipe got snagged or rubbed thru etc. Even then worst case it might wet the spoil board a little but it's not going to wreck the machine.

The problem with hobby CNC machines using full sized spindles is weight. For example the reason most router based CNCs use router is because of weight either bogging the gantry down or causing the Z-axis to fall (like the Shapeoko, Ox etc). I think the Shapeoko actually used a SPRING at one time to help keep the router from dropping and not being able to get back up again. So a proper spindle is out of the question.

Cannot blame the Tech because people select the wrong motors and underbuild Z-axis. There is also a reason why we tell people to avoid machines like shepeko with this being just one of them.!

I think everyone I know of (bar one who went water cooled and had to go double belt and larger stepper motors before it would stop bogging down) has gone the air cooled spindle route. But if I could afford all metal underside and stronger steppers or drives there would be no question. In that case it would be water cooled all the way.

At the end of the day it all comes down to cost.

No at end of the day it comes down to if machine can handle the spindle or not.! . . . Not just the cost. From what your saying you have Shapeko type machine and the simple truth is these weak machines cannot handle large spindles like these. Got nothing to do with how it's cooled and everything to do with build quality.

Comments like your really piss me off because your actually discouraging people from using products which you clearly have little or no experience of using.

Anyone who's used an Air-cooled spindle then switched to WC spindle will say how much better they are. They also don't slag the Tech because the machine is rubbish.
Just the lower noise alone is enough for most people to switch but the fact the duty cycle is pretty much unlimited and the extra power they offer just blows the cheap Air-cooled spindles away.
Even much higher quality air-cooled spindles like HSD cannot match the cheap WC spindles when it comes to the duty cycle. Cheap air-cooled spindles are limited to just a few hours of constant running at high speeds which is useless to any decent machine. WC spindle will happily run for days at full speed.

[Kitwn]

I use the popular 2.2KW water cooled spindle moved by a 1610 ballscrew which does fall slowly under it's own weight when the stepper motor power is removed. Part of my SOP is to put a prop under the Z axis before powering down the control box and removing it again after power is back on. It's not really a problem and I would expect to re-home after an e-stop anyway. No water leaks so far either.

[NeoMorph]

Oops... double post.

[NeoMorph]

I take it you use an air cooled radiator in your lounge then so it does not ruin the carpet

Funny you should say that. A radiator leaked all over my hall about a month ago. Had to throw out the carpet.

Seriously though... it’s the same with water cooled PCs. It’s freaking great when it works but in a CNC it has to deal with the carriage moving back and forth. If you have an all metal CNC you don’t worry if you get a leak. You fix the problem and wipe up the spill. With a wood base CNC it’s going to swell the wood and we all know how it’s going to affect accuracy after that. It means replacing the spoilboard, having to resurface etc. It’s faff you can do without if you use air cooled spindles.

But like I said... if I ever build a metal based one I’m going for an auto-change water cooled, pneumatic drawbar spindle... they kick ass (watch Marco Reps on YouTube).

Edit: Regarding my worry about leaks... I’m slightly OCD about things going wrong after year 1 where pretty much everything did go wrong. The controller was going beserk every so often, the axes would randomly stop working, I had to keep uploading grbl because it was getting corrupted. Drove me nuts.

Took ages to track down... the cause was a link of LED strip lighting that was in my enclosure. It was only after reaching into the CNC the one time that I notice the lights were pulsing randomly in one corner. I thought to test it with another of my 12v psu blocks and hooked it up... and killed ALL the lights in my enclosure. Turned out I used a 24v one instead of a 12v and caused the lights to come on, do some freaky stuff before flaring any dying.

But ironically killing those lights fixed my CNC... it’s run smooth as silk since. I did have to buy some more lights but it’s running fine so it’s money well spent.

So yeah... I tend to still worry a lot.