3 phase vs 2 phase nema 34

[mbridge87]

I would need to know more about the weights your moving and linear stage etc but any 200W AC servo would probably do what you need or 400W at most I would think. Even something like this 180W DC with integrated drive would be enough I'd guess, esp if used a gearbox.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180W-3000....c100005.m1851

Don't be fooled by the low Nm rating, Servo's are very different to steppers and the rating is constant across the RPM range so you'll have the rated Torque at full speed which is often 3000rpm, this is between 2x to 3x faster RPM than a stepper will reach which is why you can use a gearbox to increase torque and still have the same rpm as a stepper. Also, they can often peak at 3x the rated torque for 10-20s which is often more than enough to overcome any friction and get things rolling.

Interesting, thanks for showing that to me. For the moment I think it still makes sense financially to stick with what came with the slider and rotation stages but in V2 of this machine, sometime down the line, I'd definitely build it with better motors as you suggest. There was an option to add a servo to the slider but it increased the cost but something like £200 so I had to pass.

I gave a bit more info about what I'll be moving, weights etc. and how, above. Essentially, 12-16kg being moved both horizontally and vertically. In the future that may increase if I were to add multiple sliders together to give me both horizontal and vertical movement simultaneously.

[mbridge87]

Max,
It was making a basic camera motion control system for timelapse and animation (driven by Dragonframe) that first got me into playing with stepper motors and then onto building a CNC router. Be warned!

Back then there was a very active group on the forum of the TIMESCAPES website who were building their own gear, some of which was designed to be used for professional work. Gerald at Mantis was quite active on there for a while. Sadly the activity has died away over recent years but the archive of material might be of use to you.

Kit

http://forum.timescapes.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=24

Hi Kit,

Thanks for the reply. I actually found that forum a while ago, even tried to sign up before I realised it was no longer operating. Trouble was I needed to ask questions and there was nobody there to help. Hopefully I can run a few things past people here.

When you say "be warned!" can you elaborate? Was it a nightmare for you?

Thanks,

Max

[Kitwn]

Hi Kit,

Thanks for the reply. I actually found that forum a while ago, even tried to sign up before I realised it was no longer operating. Trouble was I needed to ask questions and there was nobody there to help. Hopefully I can run a few things past people here.

When you say "be warned!" can you elaborate? Was it a nightmare for you?

Thanks,

Max

Timescapes was a great place to hang out as well as learn a lot of stuff. I was inspired to move into animation from timelapse and to build my first CNC router design by friends I made on there. I even got into making timelapse films of turtles nesting on the beaches near where I live in Western Australia using only moonlight after one forum member in Florida started doing something similar. Once we got to the point that every mobile phone could do timelapse and the regulars who were on the forum got busy making use of the machines they'd made activity died down.

"be warned!": Not a nightmare at all, I've found the whole process of starting with a wood and allthread 'proof of concept' machine and working my way up to something capable of serious work a very rewarding project in it's own right (not that I recommend that route at all!) But it has been time consuming and once you have made the CNC machine you have to find things to make with it. Other people (aka wife) will also find all sorts of things for you to make with it and it tends to become central to all the other projects you have in mind since it can make the pieces better and quicker than you can.

Kit

[mbridge87]

Timescapes was a great place to hang out as well as learn a lot of stuff. I was inspired to move into animation from timelapse and to build my first CNC router design by friends I made on there. I even got into making timelapse films of turtles nesting on the beaches near where I live in Western Australia using only moonlight after one forum member in Florida started doing something similar. Once we got to the point that every mobile phone could do timelapse and the regulars who were on the forum got busy making use of the machines they'd made activity died down.

"be warned!": Not a nightmare at all, I've found the whole process of starting with a wood and allthread 'proof of concept' machine and working my way up to something capable of serious work a very rewarding project in it's own right (not that I recommend that route at all!) But it has been time consuming and once you have made the CNC machine you have to find things to make with it. Other people (aka wife) will also find all sorts of things for you to make with it and it tends to become central to all the other projects you have in mind since it can make the pieces better and quicker than you can.

Kit

Ah ok, glad to hear it wasn't a nightmare to get everything operational. I was concerned.

I don't plan to build a CNC machine, rather a motion control video rig. That said having looked into this for so long a CNC machine would be pretty cool!

[Kitwn]

That said having looked into this for so long a CNC machine would be pretty cool!

See, you're on the slippery slope already

My own moco rig was simply a slider which was not used for real-time video which requires MUCH smoother motion. I know the Timescapes forum has dried up but if you want more info on some of the rigs described there the same people are probably still about on different sites. Just for a taster, here's a video of a rig built by a man who is known online as DISPLACEMENT1 who works in an impossibly small garden workshop and equally small living room in Manchester and has been working in professional animation for many years.



Kit

[mbridge87]

See, you're on the slippery slope already

My own moco rig was simply a slider which was not used for real-time video which requires MUCH smoother motion. I know the Timescapes forum has dried up but if you want more info on some of the rigs described there the same people are probably still about on different sites. Just for a taster, here's a video of a rig built by a man who is known online as DISPLACEMENT1 who works in an impossibly small garden workshop and equally small living room in Manchester and has been working in professional animation for many years.



Kit

Looks pretty amazing! Love the music.

My intention for the moment is to build a rig which will allow me to produce a portfolio of motion control video work. I'd then approach ad agencies, direct brands etc. and have the work to show. If actually booked for a job then I can either use the kit I've built, if suitable for the job, or bring on people like G6 Moco - https://www.instagram.com/g6moco/

I'm currently a still life photographer and on large advertising shoots there should be the budget to bring in people with far more advanced rigs then I could ever build. This whole process gets my foot in the door and teaches me a little of what I need to know.

This is my still life work - https://www.max-bridge.com/

[Kitwn]

This is my still life work - https://www.max-bridge.com/

Nice! I like the liquid splash work for Max Factor.

This was my one and only animated film. Took so bloody long with me doing EVERYTHING required from designing and building the moco rig and high stability LED lights to improvising the music that I hadn't the will power to make another one.



Kit

[mbridge87]

Nice! I like the liquid splash work for Max Factor.

This was my one and only animated film. Took so bloody long with me doing EVERYTHING required from designing and building the moco rig and high stability LED lights to improvising the music that I hadn't the will power to make another one.



Kit

Nice! Love the dog at the beginning, made me laugh

[mbridge87]

I would need to know more about the weights your moving and linear stage etc but any 200W AC servo would probably do what you need or 400W at most I would think. Even something like this 180W DC with integrated drive would be enough I'd guess, esp if used a gearbox.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180W-3000....c100005.m1851

Don't be fooled by the low Nm rating, Servo's are very different to steppers and the rating is constant across the RPM range so you'll have the rated Torque at full speed which is often 3000rpm, this is between 2x to 3x faster RPM than a stepper will reach which is why you can use a gearbox to increase torque and still have the same rpm as a stepper. Also, they can often peak at 3x the rated torque for 10-20s which is often more than enough to overcome any friction and get things rolling.

Hey Jazz, hope you had a good week. Just wondering if you saw my messages giving a bit more info about the build? I'd love your opinion about the correct driver for the NEMA 34 and PSU.

Thanks,

Max

[JAZZCNC]

Hey Jazz, hope you had a good week. Just wondering if you saw my messages giving a bit more info about the build? I'd love your opinion about the correct driver for the NEMA 34 and PSU.

Thanks,

Max

No, I've been busy this week so not had much time, I'll go back and have a look come back to you.