Hardinge Lathe CNC Retrofit/Conversion

**Chaz** · 25-12-2020

So workshop is starting to take form and the lathe has been moved onto (into) the workshop. So between the cold weather and other stuff, Ill start with the retrofit.

**Neale** · 25-12-2020

Chaz - I expect you've fixed the "servo error" issue by now, but I've also been setting up a 3-axis mill system for a mate (project on hold pending him getting some mechanical bits sorted) and had all the SZGH kit configured on his coffee table for testing. I found exactly the same problem until all three servos were connected. I was a bit worried when I tried with just one and kept getting errors... Seems like a nice bit of kit, though.

Looking forward to seeing this lathe project progress - good luck!

**JAZZCNC** · 25-12-2020

Originally Posted by Neale

Chaz - I expect you've fixed the "servo error" issue by now, but I've also been setting up a 3-axis mill system for a mate (project on hold pending him getting some mechanical bits sorted) and had all the SZGH kit configured on his coffee table for testing. I found exactly the same problem until all three servos were connected. I was a bit worried when I tried with just one and kept getting errors... Seems like a nice bit of kit, though.

Looking forward to seeing this lathe project progress - good luck!

I haven't had this issue but I'm using Absolute encoders and I think you and Chaz are using Incremental which might make a difference as the position is saved in memory and talks to the controller first so doesn't rely on the motors encoder to report back, however, every so often I do get one drive fault on start-up. Can be any of the drives, it's random, reset and it's fine never does it again no matter how many times you switch on/off.!! . . .It's a strange one.?
This is just on the bench still has I haven't had time to fit on the machine and It's probably because it's rough arse wired on the bench and running through a multiplug extension cable on a 13A plug with no Inrush or line filters but I'll be contacting SZGH before fitting to check but thought I'd mention it just in case anyone else is having similar issues.

**Neale** · 25-12-2020

I've been playing with a 4-axis controller, and I had assumed that it would have the equivalent of "active high" or somesuch on the error signals from the servo drives, so a disconnected driver would show as OK. Not so! However, it does seem that the 4th axis has been disabled so it does not throw an error. Maybe SZGH did this in their initial configuration (although they did make one mistake - the estop input from the MPG was configured the wrong way round so that you needed to hit the estop to make it work! Soon fixed).

One slight frustration that might be relevant to Chaz as well. There is an encoder output from the servo, and the controller has encoder inputs available. Presumably these are for closed-loop operation although I think that you can configure the coordinate readouts to use them. However, the provided cables, excellent as they appear to be in all other ways, make no provision for connecting encoder output to controller input. My mate who owns the machine would have liked the ability to use the controller readouts as a DRO for manual operation with the table handwheels. It looks at first sight as if you would need to hack into the cables or connectors to provide this capability.

**JAZZCNC** · 25-12-2020

Originally Posted by Neale

My mate who owns the machine would have liked the ability to use the controller readouts as a DRO for manual operation with the table handwheels. It looks at first sight as if you would need to hack into the cables or connectors to provide this capability.

Maybe not as bad as he thinks because the hand wheels would make tuning the servos a nightmare, better off without them and use the MPG. But it wouldn't be a massive job to hook them up. Thou to be honest with all the cables they stuff into those DB connectors I wouldn't like to to remove the covers.

**Fairmount** · 18-11-2021

Hi Chaz

I am really interested in understanding the kit you have used to upgrade these really good but slow and unreliable machines.

I have had about 5 CHNCs over the years, cannibalising the old AB controls to keep just one running.

I know have one in the graveyard and one that is a really good condition machine with a dead AB control that I really have given up on.

I have been looking to buy the Centroid upgrade kit but it is so difficult thinking about spending such a lot of money on what is a very old machine.

The problem I have is that I like the precision and the 5c collets and the special collects I have developed for various jobs.

I can't justify buying a new CNC (I have a 1988 Mazak QT15N for the bigger, faster work).

I don't run my machines on a 24/7 basis - they owe me nothing and I just use them when I need to make various components for my products we sell.

So seeing that someone so recently is doing exactly what I would love to do has prompted me to join the forum and ask if you can share your experience so that I might have another look at doing the same to save my old but loved CHNC.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Paul

**Chaz** · 19-11-2021

Originally Posted by Fairmount

Hi Chaz

I am really interested in understanding the kit you have used to upgrade these really good but slow and unreliable machines.

I have had about 5 CHNCs over the years, cannibalising the old AB controls to keep just one running.

I know have one in the graveyard and one that is a really good condition machine with a dead AB control that I really have given up on.

I have been looking to buy the Centroid upgrade kit but it is so difficult thinking about spending such a lot of money on what is a very old machine.

The problem I have is that I like the precision and the 5c collets and the special collects I have developed for various jobs.

I can't justify buying a new CNC (I have a 1988 Mazak QT15N for the bigger, faster work).

I don't run my machines on a 24/7 basis - they owe me nothing and I just use them when I need to make various components for my products we sell.

So seeing that someone so recently is doing exactly what I would love to do has prompted me to join the forum and ask if you can share your experience so that I might have another look at doing the same to save my old but loved CHNC.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Paul

Hi Paul

Indeed, good machines once you can get rid of the old controllers (like many things). A lot of detail to consider, should I just PM you my number? Easier to talk through however in summary, I'd probably do the same again if I needed to. Once you understand these 'not pc controlled' controllers, they are fairly straight forward.

A key question however is then if you are replacing everything such as motors and how much of the original interlocking do you need (for example, I can have door alarms etc) however if I want to have a condition such as the spindle lock being detected to stop the spindle running, that needs some coding / considering.

Charl

**Fairmount** · 19-11-2021

Originally Posted by Chaz

Hi Paul

Indeed, good machines once you can get rid of the old controllers (like many things). A lot of detail to consider, should I just PM you my number? Easier to talk through however in summary, I'd probably do the same again if I needed to. Once you understand these 'not pc controlled' controllers, they are fairly straight forward.

A key question however is then if you are replacing everything such as motors and how much of the original interlocking do you need (for example, I can have door alarms etc) however if I want to have a condition such as the spindle lock being detected to stop the spindle running, that needs some coding / considering.

Charl

Hi Chaz

Yes please - I would like to chat this through.

01763263415

[email protected]

**Neale** · 26-12-2020

Good point - I'll tell him to take off the handwheels and learn to use the MPG. He's only used the machine in manual mode because of issues with the original Anilam controller but that did provide a DRO function so conventional use was straightforward.

You mention servo tuning. I have a copy of the SZGH servo tuning application, but they have confirmed that it is only available in Chinese. I've had a quick look but I really couldn't get very far at all with it. Have you looked at servo tuning with these SZGH setups?

**Muzzer** · 26-12-2020

You can do just as good a job translating the document yourself as they would. After all, they just use Baidu Translate themselves, which is very much like Google Translate.

If you have the document in Word format, you can right click almost anywhere in the document and select "Translate". You may need a recent version of Word for this - I have Office 365. Select the whole document from the options and there you are. I'm pretty impressed with the Microsoft translation. You can also paste selected paragraphs into Google Translate for a second opinion if the result is a bit hard to follow.

If you only have a PDF version of the document, you can use Adobe's free online PDF-to-Word converter and it will do a pretty good job. It will usually cope well with tables, illustrations, formatting etc. I've done this with several foreign PDF docs recently (Chinese and German) and am surprised how well they work nowadays. Only 2-3 years ago it was a lot more painful, with somewhat more "mixed" results.

As Jazz says, the handwheels can screw up your servo tuning. I removed mine in the end, 'cos it was impossible to get sensible / acceptable behaviour from my DMMs otherwise. And the MPG is much more useful - you can position the handwheel where it is most convenient (eg during touchoff) and you can also change how much movement you get when you turn the wheel.