Newbie Novice

[WoodKnot]

Good morning Jazzcnc - i would like to build one, as that way i can build the knowledge for when things go wrong, but looking for a project that i can build this year. Whilst i do have some engineering skills and woodworking skills, I have never welded, I am not set up to cut metals either. If you could recommend profiles, motors etc that would be great - and where to purchase them from? I don't ever foresee me needing a machine bigger than 1mtr x 1mtr to be honest. I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

[Clive S]

I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

Do you not think that the above is over ambitious. I think you are under estimating the weight and size. Lasers have to be able to run very fast that's why a lot of them are belt drive rather that ball screws.

Have a good read through some of the build logs http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/282-Ga...hines-Building.

[JAZZCNC]

Good morning Jazzcnc - i would like to build one, as that way i can build the knowledge for when things go wrong, but looking for a project that i can build this year. Whilst i do have some engineering skills and woodworking skills, I have never welded, I am not set up to cut metals either. If you could recommend profiles, motors etc that would be great - and where to purchase them from? I don't ever foresee me needing a machine bigger than 1mtr x 1mtr to be honest. I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

Ok well first let me say I strongly agree with Clive S that you are being a little over-ambitious here, however, I will try to steer in the right direction when the time comes but unfortunately, you are very far from me or anyone being able to recommend anything at this point.

To advise accurately on important and expensive purchases like motors, drives, controllers and all the other related components requires you have a design to work with. There are many variables that come into play to choose the right components so without the design, I or anyone else can't possibly tell you what to buy.

My advice at the moment is to read and search out as many of the threads and build logs as you can, find a design that you like, and use this as a guide for your build, or simply just copy it. No one here would mind you if you straight copied their build, they probably did the same.!

Now the best advice by far and can't be stressed enough is DO NOT BUY ANYTHING, not so much as a nut or bolt until you have a firm plan and design in mind and have done the due diligence and research required. Rushing out and buying parts or Kits of parts is THE single biggest mistake new builders make and it's a very easy trap to fall down.

When you have done the research and have a design in mind then start a build thread and give an outline of what you have in mind. Ask all your questions in this thread so all the info and advice given is in one place rather than scattered around the forum, this will help you months down the line when you are trying to find any recommendations or advice given.

Now I won't blow smoke up your jacksy and say that DIY building is easy because it's not, a good machine requires careful planning and careful selection of components. It requires you have an all-around skill set of average electrical and mechanical knowledge and lots of patience.

However, it's very doable and many people with limited tools and engineering background have built some excellent machines, but in all cases 100% of them they all did the planning and research, most took many months or years to complete them.

Good luck and do the research.

[WoodKnot]

Hi Jazzcnc, thank you for your advice. I am not going to spend hundreds on cad and teach myself how to use it. Whilst I really do fully appreciate really well engineered machines, is there a point where you can over engineer something? I have seen a build that I do like, it's called indy build. I have been on open builds as well and looking at parts suppliers etc. I am starting to get my head around some of it, but the most basic element is the extrusion. Can someone at least point me in the right direction of whose is the best.

There are a lot of machines out there that do have good reviews, I agree that I can save money self building and taking ideas, upgrades etc from others builds

I am still happy with the size I want, its just who's is the best build to follow.?

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

[dazp1976]

Hi Jazzcnc, thank you for your advice. I am not going to spend hundreds on cad and teach myself how to use it. Whilst I really do fully appreciate really well engineered machines, is there a point where you can over engineer something? I have seen a build that I do like, it's called indy build. I have been on open builds as well and looking at parts suppliers etc. I am starting to get my head around some of it, but the most basic element is the extrusion. Can someone at least point me in the right direction of whose is the best.

There are a lot of machines out there that do have good reviews, I agree that I can save money self building and taking ideas, upgrades etc from others builds

I am still happy with the size I want, its just who's is the best build to follow.?

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

I think you need to find some suitable CAD/CAM software you can use and are happy with BEFORE you buy anything else.
I think your jaw might drop at the cost of some of it.
I'll be honest and say I only started messing with this cnc stuff because I was lucky (or unlucky, because as a hobby it's a bottomless £ pit). Lucky to have been gifted some decent software.
I would never have touched a machine otherwise.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks Daz - yes, £1500 upwards for some of them and a whole new learning curve as well. There is a lot to learn, not just the machine build, the motors, electrics, software, speeds, tooling, but there is a lot more taking to it. With the help on here and other similar sites, there is a staggering amount of knowledge, its just also atkes huge amount of time sifting through it all. Love Youtube and have used it for years as a resource. What software are you using by the way? is it intuitive? Is it worth the money?

[JAZZCNC]

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

It will be a good starting point to learn, however, I wouldn't call it substantial by any means and it will show when you start to take deeper cuts with larger tools, it will especially show in harder materials like Aluminium or Brass and even some hardwoods.
The problem with machines made like this with a relatively small profile is the vibrations that affect the tool when cutting. The resonance thru the frame causes chatter at the tool which at best leads to poor surface finish and excess tool wear but more often than not tool failure, esp in materials like aluminium or brass.

Don't underestimate the strength needed for a good CNC router, you don't need the strength because you are going to mill huge heavy lumps of material, you need it to dampen vibrations and stop flex etc. Designs like these just don't have the mass, bracing and strength to allow cutting material correctly.

It's a common mistake new users make to think that they can cut at any speed they like so if the machine is weak they will just slow down because they are not in a rush and it's just for fun.! . . . . Well as anyone who has built a weak machine will tell you it's no fun snapping cutters like carrots and wrecking expensive material and quickly gets frustrating not to mention expensive.
Every material and tool requires a certain feed and speed to cut correctly and the machine plays a large part in this, so if the structure can't handle the required feeds then your always going to struggle.

However, as a learning exercise then it's a fair design for a first build, just don't expect too much from it.

[WoodKnot]

It will be a good starting point to learn, however, I wouldn't call it substantial by any means and it will show when you start to take deeper cuts with larger tools, it will especially show in harder materials like Aluminium or Brass and even some hardwoods.
The problem with machines made like this with a relatively small profile is the vibrations that affect the tool when cutting. The resonance thru the frame causes chatter at the tool which at best leads to poor surface finish and excess tool wear but more often than not tool failure, esp in materials like aluminium or brass.

Don't underestimate the strength needed for a good CNC router, you don't need the strength because you are going to mill huge heavy lumps of material, you need it to dampen vibrations and stop flex etc. Designs like these just don't have the mass, bracing and strength to allow cutting material correctly.

It's a common mistake new users make to think that they can cut at any speed they like so if the machine is weak they will just slow down because they are not in a rush and it's just for fun.! . . . . Well as anyone who has built a weak machine will tell you it's no fun snapping cutters like carrots and wrecking expensive material and quickly gets frustrating not to mention expensive.
Every material and tool requires a certain feed and speed to cut correctly and the machine plays a large part in this, so if the structure can't handle the required feeds then your always going to struggle.

However, as a learning exercise then it's a fair design for a first build, just don't expect too much from it.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks again Jazzcnc


I had thought of upgrading it and using C frame and also thicker rails (15mm) and also thicker ball screws (8mm)

What I am struggling to come to grips with, is that there is a huge amount of hobby CNC guys out there that have purchased these 2 to 3K machines that appear to be 'not up to the task'

All these open builds appear to be built on the same or similar profiles.................

[JAZZCNC]

Thanks again Jazzcnc


I had thought of upgrading it and using C frame and also thicker rails (15mm) and also thicker ball screws (8mm)

There you go you see you are already upgrading and haven't even built it.! . . . Plus you would be upgrading it with components that are not ideal.
This is why we tell people to do the research and check out build threads so they can see the differences and why we fit and recommend the things we do.!

What I am struggling to come to grips with, is that there is a huge amount of hobby CNC guys out there that have purchased these 2 to 3K machines that appear to be 'not up to the task'

All these open builds appear to be built on the same or similar profiles.................

Well often it's because they don't know any better, often it's the first machine they have experienced and indeed it does cut, but that doesn't mean it's cutting correctly or efficiently.
Only when they get a better-built machine do they realise just how poorly it was cutting and what can be achieved with a stronger machine. I see this all the time with customers who have started with work-bees or open build type machines, their jaws drop when they see a 12mm cutter cut through 18mm MDF in one pass. Only after they have had one for a few weeks do they realise just how compromising and limiting the machine was to them.

We see this happen on the forum when people have built machines from plans and the CNC Bug truly bites them, they upgrade and waste money only to eventually realise "you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still pork at the end of the day" only when they start to listen and do the research and build a better machine do they understand how bad the old one was.!

Also, very few want to admit they have bought a lemon because they want to sell them on. Ask anyone who has bought one and moved onto a properly built machine and you will get the true answer.

Now I realise when I say these things people will think I'm just saying these things to sell machines or steer people in my direction and indeed it does at times stop me posting some things I could, but this honestly isn't the case.

I say what I say so people go into buying these things with their eyes wide open and fully aware of what they are buying because the last thing I want is new CNC users being turned off CNC because they have bought inferior machines thinking they are capable of much more than they truly are only to be frustrated and give up.
Again I see this happen all too often and ALL my advice is based on real-world experience with helping people and not just customers, people on various forums who have sought me out.

However, at the end of the day, it's down to the individual to whether they believe or trust what I'm saying. Sooner or later they find out one way or the other.