OpenBuilds Style Build

[A_Camera]

Just had a look on the specification for my little Dewalt D26200 - which is just really the motor unit.

It has Variable speed control from 16,000 to 27,000

So reading between the lines - fast enough for wood but not slow enough for plastic or metals.

Definitely too fast for some aluminium, but it's not just about RPM, it is also about the cutters you use, the diameter of them, the cutting speed (feed rate) and also the material. Not all aluminium is the same, and there are different plastics also.

Plastics may be something I am interested in, but generally find most polymers that I have used wrap themselves around cutters and are a pain of having to stop frequently to clean them up, especially mid cut.

As said, that may depend on many things, but most likely is the speed rate being too low, or the cutter is the wrong sort. I have had issues with some acrylic which melted on the cutter all the time, but eventually, I managed. It must however be difficult using a manual router because you don't really know the feed rate and can't really keep it constant. As soon as you slow down a bit too much, some plastics and aluminium melts and glues onto the cutter. Some times it helps if you spray with water, but I don't normally do that.

[WoodKnot]

Although at work we use 3-phase, sell equipment all based on 3-phase, it is something i have never used myself -

So in terms of electrical connections for 3 -phase, I would not know where to start.

When i converted the garage in my workshop I installed all the sockets (at least 15 doubles) and all the lighting.

But, as per the regs, got an electrician to fully test and complete the installation for full approval.

Maybe some more guidance from the guys on the forum that have gone down that route.

That does sound like the next big part of the project and one I will make sure that i have the full backing of prior to making any purchases.

I have purchased the power pack for the motors and the motors themselves - but that's it.

I want the frame built and completed now before i move on.

WoodKnot

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Jazz

Have you got a link to see what I am looking at and what sort of cost please?

So i presume that the VFD is separate to the inverter -

Do i need a qualified electrician to install of of this? Considering that we can only add spur these days!

WoodKnot

You don't need a Water-cooled spindle but they are SOOOOOOOO much better than a standard router, with far less noise, stronger power, continuous duty cycle.

I sell them as a Kit only, this includes 2.2Kw ER20 Spindle, Huanyang VFD, 1 to 13mm Collet set, Spindle mount, water pump with the pipe. £265 + postage.
You will also need a shielded CY cable from VFD to Spindle which we can supply at £1mtr cut to length and will solder the VFD connector on free of charge.

You don't need any special wiring in the workshop and they will plug straight into a 13A supply if required. Occasionally, if you have a sensitive MCB in your Fuse box you may need to change the type from B to C MCB but this tends to happen mostly in very new properties and not very often.

[A_Camera]

Although at work we use 3-phase, sell equipment all based on 3-phase, it is something i have never used myself -

So in terms of electrical connections for 3 -phase, I would not know where to start.

When i converted the garage in my workshop I installed all the sockets (at least 15 doubles) and all the lighting.

But, as per the regs, got an electrician to fully test and complete the installation for full approval.

Maybe some more guidance from the guys on the forum that have gone down that route.

That does sound like the next big part of the project and one I will make sure that i have the full backing of prior to making any purchases.

I have purchased the power pack for the motors and the motors themselves - but that's it.

I want the frame built and completed now before i move on.

WoodKnot

The three phase you have at work and different industries is not the same. These spindle motors can not be connected to an ordinary 3-phase plug, you must use an inverter. However, to run the inverter you don't necessarily need three phase, my VFD uses one phase, but it internally converts to three. Regarding guidance on electrical installation, I prefer not to. All I can say is that it is my personal opinion that the offer you have from Jazz for all that is a bargain, even if it sounds expensive in your ears. You can probably buy the parts cheaper individually, but you save a lot of time and trouble if you buy everything soldered and ready to be plugged into a wall socket.

BUT... before you say yes to the offer from Jazz, you MUST have your design ready, not just assume that everything fits together and works well. I mean, the whole machine MUST be ready for assembly, at least on paper, because that spindle is heavy, so you can't use small and weak steppers. You have already made an expensive mistake, don't continue the same route. I am sure that the delivered good from Jazz would work, but can your gantry handle everything? Have you decided for the type of design? Have you decided for the CNC software and the interface to your PC? Will it be Linux or Windows driven? Have you made any considerations of the electronics? Can you design and install everything, connect and solder all the wires and all that's needed to do? How large is the Z and what will be the Z clearance from the table top up? There are so many things to think about, so if you have not done it already, it is time to lift a pen and take notes in a booklet called "My CNC Design" or something similar.

[JAZZCNC]

1. The "need" for the water cooled version is really exaggerated on some sites. While when you cut air it is more quiet than air cooled motors, but that benefit is immediately erased as soon as you start cutting because the cutting noise is taking over. Once you use the spindle for real cutting, the noise benefits are gone.

Don't agree with this, unlike you I have used both, and 100% a water-cooled spindle is quieter when cutting than an air-cooled spindle simply because you don't hear the fan and air turbulence. It's a little like comparing an Electric car to a combustion-engined car and saying when the wheels are turning they both make the same noise because of the tyres on the road.!!

Then you have the duty cycle to consider, an Air-cooled spindle as a limited amount of time it can be run before it needs to cool down, WC doesn't have any duty cycle and can be run continuously for days if required.

Until you have used a WC spindle you will never fully appreciate just how good they are.

Regarding spindles, the other thing you should know is that not all of them has the protective earth connected, and in fact, not all have a connector which allows you to connect the PE. Beware, that if you go for the spindles on your own then it is of utmost importance that you connect the PE to the spindle, otherwise you are risking your life in case there is a short between the live motor connection and the motor housing. If the spindle has only three terminals you can't connect the earth, so in my opinion, you should not buy that motor. I suppose the motors Jazz is selling does have PE, but anyway, it is your responsibility to check and fix it.

Actually, very few of these spindles have a PE inside the connector, even the ones with 4 pins are not connected inside the housing. However, if the machine is wired correctly regards grounds on the Chassis and gantry then it's not a problem as any short circuit will be caught.

But I agree if you want extra peace of mind buy a 4 Pin type and connect inside the spindle.

[WoodKnot]

You don't need a Water-cooled spindle but they are SOOOOOOOO much better than a standard router, with far less noise, stronger power, continuous duty cycle.

I sell them as a Kit only, this includes 2.2Kw ER20 Spindle, Huanyang VFD, 1 to 13mm Collet set, Spindle mount, water pump with the pipe. £265 + postage.
You will also need a shielded CY cable from VFD to Spindle which we can supply at £1mtr cut to length and will solder the VFD connector on free of charge.

You don't need any special wiring in the workshop and they will plug straight into a 13A supply if required. Occasionally, if you have a sensitive MCB in your Fuse box you may need to change the type from B to C MCB but this tends to happen mostly in very new properties and not very often.

Good evening Jazz

Sounds like a great deal to me!

Something that A Camera is unaware of, is of course the much needed and much appreciated help that you are providing me.

I would like to thank you for this help, otherwise I think I would have either packed in the project, or it would have taken me a year to build..

So based on YOUR design and I must state, some of the materials that you have been forced to work with, will my set up accept your spindle pack?

Thank you again

WoodKnot

[WoodKnot]

The three phase you have at work and different industries is not the same. These spindle motors can not be connected to an ordinary 3-phase plug, you must use an inverter. However, to run the inverter you don't necessarily need three phase, my VFD uses one phase, but it internally converts to three. Regarding guidance on electrical installation, I prefer not to. All I can say is that it is my personal opinion that the offer you have from Jazz for all that is a bargain, even if it sounds expensive in your ears. You can probably buy the parts cheaper individually, but you save a lot of time and trouble if you buy everything soldered and ready to be plugged into a wall socket.

BUT... before you say yes to the offer from Jazz, you MUST have your design ready, not just assume that everything fits together and works well. I mean, the whole machine MUST be ready for assembly, at least on paper, because that spindle is heavy, so you can't use small and weak steppers. You have already made an expensive mistake, don't continue the same route. I am sure that the delivered good from Jazz would work, but can your gantry handle everything? Have you decided for the type of design? Have you decided for the CNC software and the interface to your PC? Will it be Linux or Windows driven? Have you made any considerations of the electronics? Can you design and install everything, connect and solder all the wires and all that's needed to do? How large is the Z and what will be the Z clearance from the table top up? There are so many things to think about, so if you have not done it already, it is time to lift a pen and take notes in a booklet called "My CNC Design" or something similar.

Sorry A Camera, I have got inside help ��

[JAZZCNC]

So based on YOUR design and I must state, some of the materials that you have been forced to work with, will my set up accept your spindle pack?

The C beam and small-sized profile is a weak link I must admit and it's testing me trying to find what I consider a suitable workaround using these profiles and the length of ball-screws etc.

I haven't even looked at the gantry and Z-axis side of things yet but I will give it a good look over and see how we can stiffen it up if needed.

I can see this turning into a Frankenstein WorkBee, Oznest, or whatever they are called...

[WoodKnot]

The C beam and small-sized profile is a weak link I must admit and it's testing me trying to find what I consider a suitable workaround using these profiles and the length of ball-screws etc.

I haven't even looked at the gantry and Z-axis side of things yet but I will give it a good look over and see how we can stiffen it up if needed.

I can see this turning into a Frankenstein WorkBee, Oznest, or whatever they are called...

WoodKnot's Frankenstein CNC - I like that!!

Really Jazz - it'll be alright -

Let it be! - you are making the plates and lets leave it at that - it will be what it will be.

The Z Axis is very short and on the back of the X axis there is another piece of 4020 that is fastened to the back to run the cable track on.

So, lets get the plates on and give it a go - you maybe surprised - it maybe ok?

I did say maybe!

WoodKnot

[WoodKnot]

The three phase you have at work and different industries is not the same. These spindle motors can not be connected to an ordinary 3-phase plug, you must use an inverter. However, to run the inverter you don't necessarily need three phase, my VFD uses one phase, but it internally converts to three. Regarding guidance on electrical installation, I prefer not to. All I can say is that it is my personal opinion that the offer you have from Jazz for all that is a bargain, even if it sounds expensive in your ears. You can probably buy the parts cheaper individually, but you save a lot of time and trouble if you buy everything soldered and ready to be plugged into a wall socket.

BUT... before you say yes to the offer from Jazz, you MUST have your design ready, not just assume that everything fits together and works well. I mean, the whole machine MUST be ready for assembly, at least on paper, because that spindle is heavy, so you can't use small and weak steppers. You have already made an expensive mistake, don't continue the same route. I am sure that the delivered good from Jazz would work, but can your gantry handle everything? Have you decided for the type of design? Have you decided for the CNC software and the interface to your PC? Will it be Linux or Windows driven? Have you made any considerations of the electronics? Can you design and install everything, connect and solder all the wires and all that's needed to do? How large is the Z and what will be the Z clearance from the table top up? There are so many things to think about, so if you have not done it already, it is time to lift a pen and take notes in a booklet called "My CNC Design" or something similar.

Hi A Camera -

I am Microsoft and an Android fan - so Windows - software will be Easel - Controller is BLACKBOX, no soldering (although i have purchased a kit)

Motors are Nema 23's 285oz

Should be alright