Hi Vic many thanks for that link I'll download it and have a play. Also if I was to draw an image ie with a pencil and paper and scan this and keep it as a j-peg can I convert this to a DXF file? is there a programme out there that can do this ? excuse what may sound like alot of dumb questions as I am on a learning curve and this is proving a real challenge as I don't know where else to go from here.