King Midas mill conversion

[diy-john]

Robin, your offer is very generous, thank you very much. Will send you a PM.

Did not realize how critical these ballscrews are to the build, and how much thinking has to go to them.

The X-axis, which I have so far thought as being "the piece of cake" in this project, and hence did not really think about it much.

Today thought better still check available space for X-axis ball screw.

- X -axis ball screw would have to go through this hole:



- The hole height is equal to 28.66mm, which sounds great when you think it is only a 16mm ballscrew to put in there.


- However it comes so close, because the ball nut height = 40mm, and the nut must clear the moving "top deck" (which slides over the ball-nut).


Think there will be only 0.66mm of air underneath the screw, if one will go for 16mm screw. (and if the screw really is 16.00 mm). Challenge is, that one can not move the ballscrew higher, because then the ball nut would not clear the sliding "top deck".

A bit frustrating perhaps to just measure and measure, when one wants metal chips and sparks to fly. But guess you really don't want buy ballscrews that are only good to post to classifieds section... so slowly it goes. :)

[Robin Hewitt]

Did not realize how critical these ballscrews are to the build, and how much thinking has to go to them

If you get the ballscrews right you never notice them. Get them wrong and you will be for ever adjusting and compensating.

I can export that drawing as a PDF if you think it might help, I have never exported anything as a PDF so I don't know.

[Gary]

In most conversions of machines of this size that i have been involved with the ballnut between the X and Y needed to be the FSI of DFI type that has two fixing holes either side of the flange and 2mm lower profile than the standard FSU type.
This will get over you space problem.

[diy-john]

FSI of DFI type that has two fixing holes either side of the flange and 2mm lower profile than the standard FSU type.

Thanks Gary - Please do you know the "height" of the lower-profile ballnut, for a 16mm diameter screw (1605)?
- Have used 40mm in my calculations, thinking might have by coincidence already used a lower profile version(?)
- If one could get 2mm lower than 40mm, then it would be great yes.

With a bit of help from Robin, latest draft -version for X -screw is here:


Total length of screw now is 871mm. (it has grown an extra 290mm from the original plan).

Hope that "custom" screw would not break the bank. (don't know how much extra cost that machining will add on top).
- Have prepared to go "conventional" cuttings, too, if it becomes really dear.
- One facet: want to get the screws as good as possible
- Another facet: being a newbie at this, would be very, very surprised if one gets it right first time round. Not sure how much point there is in paying top money for ballscrews, only to want something else next month. Of course trying very hard to get it right first time, but have to be realistic.

Slowly forward..

[Jonathan]

Lots of drawings on Gary's site:

http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/ball...2cf54c2f87cf0d

I can machine the ballscrew as you've drawn it for £15 plus postage.

[diy-john]

I can machine the ballscrew as you've drawn it for £15 plus postage.

Wow, cool Jonathan. Can't go wrong with that. Thanks!

www.bellevillesprings.com pn: D2812215

You are welcome to half a dozen, just shout.

Robin, yes please, need those.

suggest you put a thread and one bearing at either end.

Made another draft of X-axis screw. Please is this any good now?
- added a thread to the other end. And also a similar "structure, a fixed mount" for the ballscrew. So there are now two such mounts, one at either end of the screw.
- there are two (2) screws in picture below, but it is the same one single screw.
-- The other one just highlights, what components would fit, and where. Like hand-wheel, pulley, shims, Belleville washers.



Not sure about the dynamics, kind of figured out, that with this setup, the Belleville -washers + half nuts at either end of the screw ---> would tension the screw sort of around either end fixed mounts. Please correct if you think one has mis-understood the principle.

This is the link to the datasheet for the FDI and FDU type ballnuts and it is 34mm between the flats, so it is actually 6mm difference.
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk%2Fpdf%2FBallscrews%2FFDU-FDI.pdf

Gary, the 34mm height ballnut gets me off the hook. Thanks for pointing out these alternatives. Will speak to you about other components.


Thanks!

[Jonathan]

Robin - thank's for confirming that about the washers. I'll order some 'lighter' ones (http://www.leespring.com/uk_product_...ype=W&subType=)

Wow, cool Jonathan. Can't go wrong with that. Thanks!

:) Discuss details when the design's ready.

To put the screw in tension you don't want to have pairs of angular contact bearings at both ends, as that fixes both. You need a pair of angular contact bearings at one end, and a standard deep groove bearing plus Belleville washers and thrust bearing at the other end to provide contact force for the tension. If both ends were fixed rigidly with angular contact bearings the tension in the screw would depend on the relative spacing of the bearing blocks and the length of the screw between them, so there's no way to set it.

By 'standard washer' I assume you mean an accurately machined washer with parallel faces. You don't need a washer between the ballscrew end and angular contact bearing as the bearing is most accurate resting on the machined shoulder on the screw.

[Robin Hewitt]

That looks horrible. I'm obviously not explaining this at all well.

To put the screw in tension you just need one angular contact bearing at either end. The Bellevilles try to stretch the entire screw end to end. Adding more bearings just gives you an alignment nightmare. There is hardly any side loading on the screw to worry about, so don't worry. I used one bearing at either end of my overlength X screw and it was fine and dandy.

I used a pair of bearings at the handle end of my Y screw simply because I couldn't fit any bearings at all on the far end.

Not a problem for the X so I put one bearing at either end.

The whole she-bang should be sloppy, right up to the moment you tighten down on the Belleville's.

[diy-john]

You are all doing a good job explaining the principles.
- It was me who assumed X and Y -axis ballscrews are put together in similar way.
- Assumed too, that idea is to make it as sturdy/rigid as possible.
- There are some gaps in my knowledge, filling the gaps with assumptions doesn't always work

But it will be good. Will create another drawing of the ballscrews -setup.

Thanks again for comments!

[diy-john]

To put the screw in tension you just need one angular contact bearing at either end. The Bellevilles try to stretch the entire screw end to end.
I used one bearing at either end of my overlength X screw and it was fine and dandy.

Thanks again Robin

Please would this setup make the X-ballscrew dandy? (is this what you mean?)




Sorry if this obvious to some of you. I tried to figure it out, that
- if you now tighten the screws at each end of the X-axis screw ---> the nut(s) will push the Belleville washer ---> the Belleville washer will push the bearing ---> the bearing will push the fixed bearing mount. But because the bearing mount is fixed, then tightening the nut(s) will pull (try to stretch) the screw from either end.

Please correct. (is this getting better or worse? Tell me)

Thanks!