i'm not aware of the feud nor do i care, i just use arduino as thats what a friend has so it's easier to go to him if he has the same stuff.. i havnt dabbled with electronic like this before so for me the fact i can spend £30 for a full kit to let me do whatever i like is fine by me. as for pro mini's for a fiver from china.. are we taking ebay? if not could you point me in that direction please :D