CNC machine "Spanish" model . Advice and opinions needed!

[shapebusters]

Hello everyone, and thank you for your time. I need your opinion on a Spanish CnC Machine, for a possible buy, similar to this one:

At the moment i am building a Cowork space with a FabLab and Hackerspace, here in Lisbon, Portugal, and amongst other machines i want to have a Cnc Router, for working with plastics and wood, etc.

I would like to have a machine big enough to make digital fabrication possible.
Now i want something bigger, to do works were digital fabrication and machining plays a role on the projects.
Therefore i was searching for a machine with something around this size: 2.5m x 1.2m x 0.2m (98inches x 47inches x 7 inches), but i dont no a great thing about the machine itself, i just now how to work with them!
I though about getting one from China (mainly because of the prices) but i heard about a Spanish manufacturer of cnc's, and I need to know your opinion regarding the construction and the potential of the machine.
This machine its being sold used for 6000€ (8000USD), but i expect to negotiate it around 5000€.

It was built and sold in June 2011, it as the following features:
. Work Area of 2.1mx1.3mx0.1m
. Travel speed 15meters x min
. In aluminum and steel.
. Slotted aluminum table
. 300N engine torque NEMA23
. Axes X, Y Offset toothed belt. Spindle axis Z anti-backlash.
. Computer included with the Software milling VCarve Pro and Aspire programs.
. Control system using DSP (digital signal processor)
. Suction chip.
. Industrial hoover system.
. Many tools

With this information and images, what can you say about the machine?
What should be done to improve it?

All your help and opinions are appreciated!

Thanks!

[GEOFFREY]

Hi Wellcome. Those pictures seem to be of two different machines. It sounds like the spindle axis is probably trapezoidal rather than
ballscrew. The table and gantry do not look to be very strong or well braced, but it does seem to use profiled rails. I suspect it will be fine for lighter/softer materials if that is what you intend to use it for, but wonder how it well it will cope with with multi-users. these comments are just my own thoughts, and I am sure that some more experienced members will soon comment. Good luck with whatever you decide. G.

[shapebusters]

Hi Wellcome. Those pictures seem to be of two different machines. It sounds like the spindle axis is probably trapezoidal rather than
ballscrew. The table and gantry do not look to be very strong or well braced, but it does seem to use profiled rails. I suspect it will be fine for lighter/softer materials if that is what you intend to use it for, but wonder how it well it will cope with with multi-users. these comments are just my own thoughts, and I am sure that some more experienced members will soon comment. Good luck with whatever you decide. G.

Thank you for your help. The machine will be used by one worker or two only, and will be used mainly on wood, acrilic and plastics.
I really need to be able to evaluate the quality of the machine...
Regards form Portugal!

[gavztheouch]

Like Geoffrey says the construction is a little light weight. It reminds me of a sign writing machine rather than a machine capable of cutting plywood or mdf at any speed at all.

Positives are it appears to have everything you need to get started, tools, vcarve and extraction. Just missing a vacuum bed.

[shapebusters]

Like Geoffrey says the construction is a little light weight. It reminds me of a sign writing machine rather than a machine capable of cutting plywood or mdf at any speed at all.

Positives are it appears to have everything you need to get started, tools, vcarve and extraction. Just missing a vacuum bed.

Thank you!
I know that the "bed" structure, is made of Steel, and it was used for cutting mdf in a woodcenter.
Do you believe it could be improved with time? How? Better Spindle? Do you think its only a Chinese model sold by Spain?

Regards and thanks again!

[GEOFFREY]

My concern about the table is that it appears to have no diagonal bracing, and the gantry appears to be a fairly light guage steel pressing. My comment about multi-user was because I thought the "coworker- hackspace" usage would imply several users. The reason that I said more than one machine shown was a) different colour spindles and b) different legs. I think most of the chinese machines use chinese spindles(it could of course been imported into Spain without a spindle) and that does not look like a typical chinese spindle to me. (Kress?). G.

[gavztheouch]

It does not look Chinese to me but I can't be sure. I would be worried about the strength of the bent sheet metal side supports for the gantry and the z axis looks like it will be flimsy at full extension.

[JAZZCNC]

This machine is very flimsy in some important areas.!
Basicly it looks like a Aluminium profile frame work with Slotted profile for the bed sat on pressed steel tressels. The gantry sides are very flimsy pressed steel and don't look very well braced or supported where they meet the linear bearings.
It also use's rack & pinion for the long axis which isn't unusual for this size machine but it doesn't look to have much gear reduction so could be low resolution.? Also the torque could be low with those smaller Nema 23 motors with no or low reduction.

The Z axis is very poor design and use's unsupported round rail with only 2 bearings and a flimsy front plate which spindle attaches to. The spindle is actually an Ok spindle which is similair to the Kress but better with more power. German made I think.?

Being honest you are paying mostly for the T-slot the bed which at this size machine is very expensive but it's failing in some very important places like Z axis and Gantry strength. In practice for mostly wood based machine then T-slot isn't worth the expense IMO and just a simple stable material for the bed with a MDF spoil board is much better and far cheaper.

Not sure you could buy a cheaper or better machine from any other Company at this size but you certainly could build one far far better for less than 5K.

IMO it would be a bad move to buy this machine has it will yield only average results and lower quality finish.

[shapebusters]

This machine is very flimsy in some important areas.!
Basicly it looks like a Aluminium profile frame work with Slotted profile for the bed sat on pressed steel tressels. The gantry sides are very flimsy pressed steel and don't look very well braced or supported where they meet the linear bearings.
It also use's rack & pinion for the long axis which isn't unusual for this size machine but it doesn't look to have much gear reduction so could be low resolution.? Also the torque could be low with those smaller Nema 23 motors with no or low reduction.

The Z axis is very poor design and use's unsupported round rail with only 2 bearings and a flimsy front plate which spindle attaches to. The spindle is actually an Ok spindle which is similair to the Kress but better with more power. German made I think.?

Being honest you are paying mostly for the T-slot the bed which at this size machine is very expensive but it's failing in some very important places like Z axis and Gantry strength. In practice for mostly wood based machine then T-slot isn't worth the expense IMO and just a simple stable material for the bed with a MDF spoil board is much better and far cheaper.

Not sure you could buy a cheaper or better machine from any other Company at this size but you certainly could build one far far better for less than 5K.

IMO it would be a bad move to buy this machine has it will yield only average results and lower quality finish.

Thank you very much for all the info.

You said something that got in my mind... that making one myself i would be better served.
Do you think this is an easy job? As you can see by my presentation:http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/new-me...html#post54728
Im not afraid of the construction itself. In fact i can make any thing in metal/steel from a 3d Model, almost without paying for it. What worries me is the servos and the mechanic of the thing. I have assembled a Ultimaker, and done a electric bycicle:

But all this was done by following simple instructions and searching the web.

BUT I LOVE THE IDEA OF BUILDING IT! HAHAHAHA

Do you recomend any "Bible" for the job?

Thanks again

[Clive S]

Do you recomend any "Bible" for the job?

You're reading it. ..Clive