Web Goblin... you have solved it! The stupid hat goes to me. I have infact now got 2 PNOZ 1 relays that require 24VAC not 24VDC and that puts both of them totally useless to me. I will contact the ebay seller once again and see if I can send them both back and get a 24VDC PNOZ 4. Barrring that a quick toroid supply making 24VAC just for the PNOZ might be in order.