1st time setting up.. whats normal..

[Marlin]

Hi Eddy, Sorry about delay, I had to go to Waitrose.. (ok, Lidl's.. I'm not made of money..) and have taken your advice on the DIP switches.
I have just started running the RRunner gcode and the X axis seems to be doing fine following the DRO..
The Y axis is dead, I shall see if I can acquire a different PP Cable to see if that is the problem.
The Z axis looks fine as well. Small movements that relate to DRO.

(At this stage I have no idea how the Shaft rotation marries up with distance moved but I am sure that will become apparent.)

When I start the RR the 4th motor does the Vibration jig which is worrying as there is no DRO movement.
When I hit RESET to halt the program everything goes quiet and stops.. No continuing vibration from any Motor..
When I try to restart the program all (not Y) start a whining noise.. prior to the program continuing.. Is that normal?

As much as I am unfamiliar with Stepper motors, the heat that seems to be being generated even when not running the GCode seems excessive.. Too hot to touch after a few minutes..
I am used to regular Machine motors and, as you say, will generate heat during a work period.

I assume I could use Channel 4 instead of Y with a bit of re-routing..?

One final question.. On the set-up (Foxtech you linked..) it shows specific Numbers in specific boxes when setting up the Ports and Pins Motor Output, Input Signals and Output signals.. I have taken these on screen No.s as the Correct No.s to insert as I have no other list of No.s to refer to.. (Unless I get something useful back from Longs..)

The Tutorial Videos on Artsoft just say 'Refer to Figures supplied by machine builder..' Not very helpful..
Again, I appreciate any assistance..

[EddyCurrent]

(At this stage I have no idea how the Shaft rotation marries up with distance moved but I am sure that will become apparent.)

You need to use the 'Steps Per' setting in the Mach3 motor tuning pages. this link explains the calculation; http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7733-...0877#post60877

When I start the RR the 4th motor does the Vibration jig which is worrying as there is no DRO movement.

It may actually be responding to the G-code but looks like vibration. Edit: sorry just noticed you said no DRO motion, looks like it's not responding to G code then

When I try to restart the program all (not Y) start a whining noise.. prior to the program continuing.. Is that normal?

To a certain extent, mine sounded like whales singing at first until I got the tuning right.

As much as I am unfamiliar with Stepper motors, the heat that seems to be being generated even when not running the GCode seems excessive.. Too hot to touch after a few minutes..

Some people say this is normal, I don't know for certain, but mine don't get that hot.

I assume I could use Channel 4 instead of Y with a bit of re-routing..?

I was going to suggest that at first but thought you might already have a motor connected to it, yes try that.

One final question.. On the set-up (Foxtech you linked..) it shows specific Numbers in specific boxes when setting up the Ports and Pins Motor Output, Input Signals and Output signals.. I have taken these on screen No.s as the Correct No.s to insert as I have no other list of No.s to refer to.. (Unless I get something useful back from Longs..)

The numbers in the boxes have to match the setup of your machine, the ones in the manual could be correct or they may just be examples.

Watch these videos to learn about where the numbers come from.

[Marlin]

Thank you for the link, I think I understand this and I shall be able to apply this a little further down the line. For now I just need to know what works (or doesn't) with the Kit I have.

On the Roadrunner GCode there is only XY&Z DRO.. No 4th motor! I could just un-enable No. 4 perhaps?

It was always my intention to slave 2 motors for the Y axis and as much as I have seen references to it I can't find any definitive instructions on how it is done.. Any links?

Re: my final question, that was my thought that the stuff supplied was just a suggestion rather than being specific.. I do feel my problems lie in this area.. understanding the PP Pins and their route..

I have not heard back from Longs yet.. we shall see..
Thanks again.

[EddyCurrent]

You can just trace the wires out as shown in the first video

[Marlin]

Just spent a few minutes watching the Video's, I hadn't seen these before. Thank you.
The 1st doesn't so much apply to me at this stage as I have the combined board but will be useful if (when) I get separate drivers and a BOB. The second video was very helpful and have followed along and all my Drives (apart from my dead Y..) seem to do what they should.. so I feel the Pin No.s I have are correct.. yay

Thanks Neale for your comments about the heat, I have now taken to spitting on the motors to keep them cool.. Do I need to spit on the PSU too..? Bzzzt
I am taking this to mean that whilst a program is running and a particular motor may be stationary it is not idle.. ie.. it is powered to maintain that position and will be making some sort of noise rather like revving a car engine in a gear on a hill to maintain ... blah.. Like, riding the clutch..! (I'll get there eventually..)
Does 'Tuning the Motor' seems to help with this heat problem though..?

At the end of the 2nd Video a tantalising reference to slaving Motors.. But.. (I thought it would be quite a common practice.)
I am assuming that the slaving has to happen in Mach3 prior to the driver boards so the same signal is going out to 2 drivers but the actual Motors have 2 wires reversed (on one motor) to allow mirror action..? Sounds straightforward..
Thanks again

[Clive S]

Re the heating on the motors have you set the drivers to the correct motor current setting? With the first 3 dip switch settings .. Clive

[JAZZCNC]

I found in life paying more for something doesn't necessarily get you something better. Hence, the learning curve. Anyhow, I am sure I have read posts with you chastising someone for spending too much and wasting money..

Let me assure you when it comes to drives and motors it really does make a difference paying more for good stuff.! . . . . This is why Eddy doesn't have heating motors or issues.!
I'm not having a go at you and I class telling you this as helping because the way your going the outcome will be you blow the drives which is wasted money and the motors are just rubbish.

Now most of your problems come from the motors and the fact they are are 6 wire motors with high inductance connected to poor drives.

First you have them wired Full winding which is effectively like using Series winding and this means you should run them at half the motor rated current. Your motors are rated 1A but your giving them nearly twice what they would want wired in series and thats why they are getting hot.
Because of the way steppers work they draw most current when at rest so again they are getting hot because your providing too much current. Decent ddrive do indeed drop current to lower amount when at rest. Yours probably don't.
Next the 14mH inductance means you need high voltage to any kind of performance out of them, 24V just is now where near enough to be of any use so between too much current and not enough volts you have shitty running motors with poor performance at best.

To help your over heating problem then wire the motors half winding. So use Black & Yel and Red & White cap the others. This would be like wiring in parallel and use the full amp rating of the motor.

The Road runner G-code is done in imperial units so if your using metric units then the moves will be tiny and can appear like judders. If the G-code says 1 it would mean 1 inch but your in mm so 1=1mm hence the small size and tiny juddery moves. If you scale the axis by 25.4 you'll see a difference in the motors. (Remember to reset the scale factor)

Slaving is completely done in the software and you DONT wire the motors in mirror wire them all the same.
If you have motor going wrong way then you can just change the active high/low pin state in motor outputs.

[Marlin]

Hi Jazz,
Thank you for your response, (I have been a bit un-well for the last few days so apologise for not responding.)
Taking my highlighted comment, I wasn't having a go.. it was more about understanding more about the motors so when it is time to purchase more suitable ones I have more knowledge.
eg : I could pay £5 for my favourite Muller yoghurt's from Waitrose or £2 from ASDA.. Same product. That was my point. VFMoney

With Motor and driver choice, 'Optimum' seems to be the main criteria here, not too big and not too small, but just the right one. There is a natural tendency to go 'bigger' if in doubt it seems..

I will gratefully try and learn from your advice but your 'rubbishing' the hardware just based on price is not helpful. You could equally argue that 'New' hardware is better than 'Old' as progress tends to improve things (not always the case..)

On my bench setup so far, I have 3 motors running and am trying to figure some way of checking the non working 'Y' axis to see if the problem is with my stuff. (Longs are just ignoring my requests for a replacement board..)

As per my heading for this post, I have limited knowledge of what 'normal' is.. which is what I need for my baseline..

(aside) I would love to visit someone's working machine if they would let me (I am near Southend in Essex) as that could answer many questions.. anybody?.. pls.. Will bring BEER.. (No, Yorkshire is too far..)

I have spent much time trying understand what effect having UNI/BI polar, series/parallel actually has.. I have seen the graph of 'speed versus torque' but in this hypothetical state I am currently in, it does not point me in any particular direction..
I feel I have to actually build the beast to then see where my weak points are. I have always learned this way and do not mind spending a bit of cash for my education.

If 'Hot' running Motors are not the norm them I have to assume that Neales motors are not set to their optimum.. I have no idea what 'overheating' means in this scenario.. I accept the motors generate heat whilst working.. Too hot to touch..?

I shall try your 'half winding' suggestion.. I assume I should not damage anything..? What results should I expect? Will it lose torque or rotational speed.. or just lower temperature.?

I tried the roadrunner in Imperial and it didn't like it at all.. It seems to be quite happy in Metric.. But again.. No baseline..

I did find a very useful Youtube video from MachMotion describing slaving (as you say) all done in Mach3 and he wasn't persistently saying 'I am now going to go ahead and....' which seems very popular with out US cousins in their vids..

Would it help if I started a 'Build' log to show my Frame and then perhaps solicit opinions on the best Hardware..? I have done some designs in Sketchup but would rather do a little video viewing the actual build but am unsure as to the best way to post it.. I had tried to put up an Avatar but even my small jpeg was about 5 times too big.. advice please..

[EddyCurrent]

The 1st doesn't so much apply to me at this stage as I have the combined board but will be useful if (when) I get separate drivers and a BOB.

It does apply because it shows how the pin numbers were derived, about 5 minutes into the video. I'm not convinced you have the pin numbers right in Mach3.

[Neale]

I bought SY60 (Nema 23) motors, M752 drivers, and a nominal 68V linear power supply from Zapp. The drivers are analogue, and became obsolete a few months after I bought them. I would use digital drivers these days. There's all the info you need on this forum to do the calculations to find the best choices for a particular machine but when you've done that, looked at what's available, and assuming that you're building a typical machine capable of handling about a quarter-sheet of ply, then you'll probably end up with something similar.
I would not recommend going down the route I did, MDF, threaded rod from Screwfix, etc. I ended up with a machine that has been a source of frustration ever since I bought it. Getting good quality work out of it is slow and tedious, and I have probably wasted as much time as I should have spent doing it right first time. Plenty of learning opportunities, but not the way to go if you want to get directly to a good, useful, machine.