complete conversion kit for AMA25LV

[bogstandard]

Jon,

Going along that route I would think you will run out of cash very quickly.

I can't give you exact items as most of mine will be different, as in ball screws.

These people have very good prices but you will need to find someone to give you the correct lengths you would require to be made.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1605776038...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I made the mistake of ordering machined ends on mine, but that won't cause me any troubles as I will just re-machine one of them.

Angular contact bearings for X & Y between stepper coupling and screw and Z between thread and pulley.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1904893549...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


For electronic bits, if going for 3 axis, the you require 3 off of these.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1407491526...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Plus one of these if wanting it to run off a USB port on your Mach3 computer and if ever you are going to fit a rotary table driven by CNC.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2613958360...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Plugs and sockets + other bits can be obtained from these places.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3612242481...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3103952509...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2715681514...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3014217997...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1214462544...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

For my computer bits I just searched on Ebay for a cheap 64 bit computer to run Windows XP for mach 3 and a 15" touch screen monitor.
These are just links to the ones I bought, you will have to search for your own

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1215661110...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1215635847...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Plus a few other bits

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3312092616...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

You don't want to go using a wireless keyboard or mouse, it can interfere with the touch screen.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2515955875...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Small power supplies for case fans and the back end of the breakout board.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2908836881...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Main supply case to put everything in, yours might be smaller (or larger) depending how tidy you are.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2313254312...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


These are just a few basic items, you will also need a 48 volt transformer for the stepper drivers and four steppers, which you can find cheap enough on Ebay, I was lucky, I got four steppers and my power supply from a good friend at cost.

On top of all this you will need lots of cable and thick pieces of ali plate to mount the steppers onto your machine.

I just can't list everything here, just most of the major stuff to give you some ideas on costs.


John

[Fatoftheland]

Wow!
Thanks John for taking the time to share all that info. That's probably about six months research for me. Now all I need to do is click on each link and understand what I am looking at....
Thank you again
Jon

[bogstandard]

Don't worry Jon, I was in the same position a few months ago when I started on my journey.
If it wasn't for a good friend guiding me along the way and explaining to me what everything was for, I would have been in the same position as yourself.
I am lucky in that I have almost 50 years machining in my background, and some of that in the computer peripherals industry, so I can understand that side of things.

It is the CAD/CAM and Mach 3 that is going to be the killer for me. As you get older, it gets more difficult to bump start the old brain cells.

John

[JAZZCNC]

Hi,

Please Don't take this wrong way John as I'm not putting or pulling you down but some of those suggestions I wouldn't take up on. Here's why.

The Drives are cheap but they are old analog techonlogy often easily affected by Resonance which affects performance and smoothness of motors. So With converting a milling machine which are often using a ratio then the operating rpm of the motors will fall in the mid band region of the drive/motor that is most affected by resoancne so not ideal really. Esp given that mills tend to be stiff and resonant anyway.
Newer digital drives are much better at handling resonance, giving a very smooth running motor, esp at lower speeds. Those Leadshine Closed loop steppers while expensive are perfect for creating a very accurate milling machine as they are Digital and Closed loop so very accurate, they are also 3 phase with 1.2deg step angle so give finer resolution with a very smooth motion.

The Motion control card is a good idea but not USB.! Ethernet is by far better.
I've tried just about every motion control card (including this one) and all that use USB give troubles in some way at some point. This is often down to electrical noise or the PC and how it's configured regards USB but still USB is flaky in my experience and prone to dropping out.
Often people blame control software when troubles starts when in fact it's often the USB port dropping out or being affected by some other windows process. This Esp true if the device is solely relying on the USB for power rather than having an external power source. USB is rubbish at providing stable power and should never be used or trusted.

For ballscrews then either Chai at linear motion bearings or Fred Lee on Ali express are the men to see. Either will machine ballscrews to any dimension you send and really not worth trying to do your self for what they charge. Fred Lee is the one I'd use as is screws do seem slightly better quality than Chai's.

If your converting a mill you may want to look at better quality than Class 7 (C7) and look towards C5. If you want much better then go for ground screws rather than rolled. Only use good quality angular contact bearings in nice solid and sealed mount as they take a pounding which soon becomes backlash.!!

The suggestions made by John will get you going and work ok-ish while being resonably cheap but IMO it's false economy as often components are much lower quality so die quicker with high potential for reliabilty troubles. The performance is often compromised by rough running motors or poor quality giving relliabilty issues with high potential for sleepless nights and much frustration. In my experience with all things CNC it really does payoff to spend that bit more on the electronics.
Some will say there machine runs fine with cheap components which maybe they think it does.? But often that is because they have never experienced a machine that uses quality parts and is setup correctly.!! . . . . . Many times i've visited machines which the owner never even knew they had issues with resonance etc and just accepted that was the Max performance the machine was capable off. When infact it was running like can of marbles and capable of much more with far smoother running motors.!

[bogstandard]

Jazz,
Not one bit of animosity felt at all.

It is fine going down your route, but in all honesty, even though it will produce a much finer machine, can everyone afford to go down that route?

It has been worked out (and not just by me) that by going down the route I am, I should be able to produce an acceptable working machine for less than £1600, and that includes the cost for mill and 4 axis RT.
I am fairly new to this electronic sort of work in the shop, except for building a Divisionmaster for my large mill, that is why I called in help from a very good friend who designs machines for the average model engineers we have now, in fact he designed and made the protos for the hobby CNC machines produced by Sieg, which although based on old technology, are doing sterling service in many thousands of home workshops.
Well we are on the same road again, making two of the same machines, just that one is geared towards the self assembler as a bolt on kit and mine, which will use a better engineeredand machined unit, takes a little more time and effort, but in the end works much better mechanically

It is the old addage about a Mini and a Rolls, they both get you there in the end, just that one costs 5 times as much to cover the same distance.


OK going for all the latest and most expensive pieces, and I am sure that yours would be a much superior machine, but for what I need, and most probably what another 95% of modell engineers require as well, going down the route I am will be perfectly acceptable.

I remember in the mid 80's having a new CNC Bridgeport delivered to our model shop. Except for size of work it could do, these small home built machines would knock spots off what the Bridgy could do.
It is all about progress. In 10 years, your stuff will most probably totally out of date. Some of us are just a little behind the times, but we do still have a little bit of cash left in our wallets.

John

[JAZZCNC]

I am fairly new to this electronic sort of work in the shop, except for building a Divisionmaster for my large mill, that is why I called in help from a very good friend who designs machines for the average model engineers we have now, in fact he designed and made the protos for the hobby CNC machines produced by Sieg

Would that be my Old mate and partner in crime John Stevenson your refering to . ?

While I understand what your saying about " Mini and Rolls" I still don't agree.! . . . Problem is this game is not an exact science and every machine is different, even if the same Make and model using same parts.
Each machine will and does react different regards resonance, also the combination of this plus drives motors etc affects tuning and how the machine performs and it doesn't always go to plan. Which if compounded by poor components, poorly assembled and wired can lead to a very frustrating time.

You are lucky as you have I presume John helping and advising who is very experienced but others are not so lucky and they don't have the luxury to be able to turn to knowledable person when plan goes south.!! . . . I help lots of people in this exact situation and this lack of knowledge combined with poor components is the most common cause of there troubles and frustrations.
Yes often I get them working quick enough and using the parts they bought but often the machine is capable of so much more and limited by components or build quality.
Also often the poor quality electronic parts or one part in particular, Ie BOB's are the reason for there troubles and if they'd bought decent electronics in first place they'd have been working weeks or months sooner and still have all there hair.!!

I'm long in the tooth know at this game and IME there really is no substitute for quality electronics. They really do pay off in the end.

[komatias]

Would that be my Old mate and partner in crime John Stevenson your refering to . ?

While I understand what your saying about " Mini and Rolls" I still don't agree.! . . . Problem is this game is not an exact science and every machine is different, even if the same Make and model using same parts.
Each machine will and does react different regards resonance, also the combination of this plus drives motors etc affects tuning and how the machine performs and it doesn't always go to plan. Which if compounded by poor components, poorly assembled and wired can lead to a very frustrating time.
i

Having converted some machines I have to agree. Either pay the money or learn to live with backlash, lost steps and generally inferior results. Since going C3 ballscrews, hybrid servo steppers and a ethernet smoothstepper with good breakout boards, my dro matches my mach3 dro every time. Money well spent in my mind

[Fatoftheland]

Thanks gents.
If I buy the ballscrews, is it possible to cut them and turn the ends on my lathe or are they super tough? Would it be easier to get them cut at source like Zapp automation offer. But what length and fittings do I want? I know I need ballscrews, ball nuts. but what goes on the ends bearing and mounting wise?

[JAZZCNC]

Thanks gents.
If I buy the ballscrews, is it possible to cut them and turn the ends on my lathe or are they super tough? Would it be easier to get them cut at source like Zapp automation offer. But what length and fittings do I want? I know I need ballscrews, ball nuts. but what goes on the ends bearing and mounting wise?

Well depends on your lathe and your abilty's really. You'll need Collet chuck to hold the screws as 3 or 4 jaw won't be good enough. How hard depends on the screw quality. Often chinese screws are only case hardened and not very deep so can be turned with correct tooling.
Better quality screws are hardened deeper. Often the ends are ground not turned on harder quality screws, I know for sure Zapp grind not turn.

How you fasten the ends will depend on the conversion but in all cases at least one end will be "fixed" and use 2 x angular contact bearings fixed in a ridged housing of some kind to stop the screw floating. Often with mill screws being short then only one end of screw is fastened the "fixed" end and other end is left unsupported.
On longer length screws you would support both ends with bearings but only one end is Fixed and the other bearing free to float in it's housing to allow for expansion.

Really regards length and what exactly is required no one except someone who's done the exact same machine can tell you and even then I wouldn't trust without checking your own machine as castings etc change and often clearences, esp around the ballnuts are tight so best working from your own measurements.

[fifa]

Good day Jon

Leadshine is far to expensive for hobby machine like that. Machine spindle is not capable to do HSC, limit yourself for federates up to 2m/min >>ballnut drive = 400 rpm. More than enough.
Any step motor driver with at least 64 steps can do approx sine curve, means you are on the safe side against resonance. Chose the motor which has enough torque also at highest speed, otherwise you will loose the steps.
Backlash do not depend on the "C" class. It depends on the nut. For "diy" variants it is much cheaper to instal 2 nuts per axis (additional costs ca 30-60 GBP ) and pre-stress them for ca 10% of nominal load. Prestress ration can easily be checked with compactor and spring scale.

regards