Thinking of buying one of these little things

[Dero23]

Hi guys,

does anyone know about this machine, is it

http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-398176/t...tV8aAqNU8P8HAQ

thanks

[JAZZCNC]

Hi guys,

does anyone know about this machine, is it aw4-smart?

http://www.gumtree.com/p/hobbies-col...fer/1116742107

thanks

Same rubbish as OP offered up so just read what's been posted to see what's thought about it.!!

[HankMcSpank]

Hi guys,

does anyone know about this machine, is it aw4-smart?

http://www.gumtree.com/p/hobbies-col...fer/1116742107

thanks

That's a lot of money for a basic (poorly spec'ed) machine...either the cost of CNC machines has shot up since I last was i the market, or the seller is chancing his luck. To give you an example, I paid £500 for a secondhand model identical to this...



...proper ballscrews (vs. threaded rod) ...larger milling area (30 x 20), chunky 16mm aluminium side profiles etc.

You can likely build one for less, but the irony is you need a CNC machine to build one effectively (it's a conundrum like "how does the snow plough driver get to work"?)

[JAZZCNC]

That's a lot of money for a basic (poorly spec'ed) machine...either the cost of CNC machines has shot up since I last was i the market, or the seller is chancing his luck. To give you an example, I paid £500 for a secondhand model identical to this...
...proper ballscrews (vs. threaded rod) ...larger milling area (30 x 20), chunky 16mm aluminium side profiles etc.

Well you must have been nuts to pay £500 for second hand machine that is poorly designed and uses cheap nasty round rail. Also 16mm aluminium is far from chunky and whats the point if those relatively flimsy 16mm sides are attached with 5mm aluminium angle.!!!

Come on people open your eyes and start looking at how these pieces of Crap are thrown together. They may be cheap but so is dog shit and thats about all they are fit to cut.!!

You can likely build one for less, but the irony is you need a CNC machine to build one effectively (it's a conundrum like "how does the snow plough driver get to work"?)

By using is head and buying something properly suited to the job of getting him to is job.!. . . .A snowmobile.!!! . . . . .

So working on your conclusions how was the first CNC machine built then.!!!. . . . You don't need CNC machine to build a CNC. Just a good design and some patience, along with a few appropriate tools and skills to use them.
It's not rocket science, neither is it for dummys. It just needs a good dose of common sense along with the patience and desire to make it happen.!. . . . Oh and not being a unrealistic tight arse.!!

[HankMcSpank]

Well you must have been nuts to pay £500 for second hand machine that is poorly designed and uses cheap nasty round rail. Also 16mm aluminium is far from chunky and whats the point if those relatively flimsy 16mm sides are attached with 5mm aluminium angle.!!!

You're right, instead I should have spent 3 years of evenings spec'ing sourcing & building. Some of the self build threads on here extend back to when Elvis could still visit the toilet without issue. Show me anywhere on the planet (webpage) you can buy a new machine with a similar spec.

I think you are still missing the point...ok, so you eat sleep breathe CNC machines, some folks just want to mill a pcb or a bit of acylic (it's akin to someone going into a car showroom asking about a ford fiesta for the school run & the salesman saying "pah, that thing won't carry girders, what you need is this Hummer")..& some folks don't want to spend yonks stroking their chin with a furrowed brow....I still reckon buying secondhand is viable - i.e. buy a modest secondhand cnc machine for £500...use it, sell it for £500....cost of ownership = £0 (re the machine I bought ...it's the most cost effective £500 I'll ever spend & for it's purpose - and as it whirrs its merry little way milling a pcb out, not once have I thought "Damn, if only I'd listened to those on mycncuk")

It was with a wry smile that I typed that you need a cnc machine to make a cnc machine (because even if that were solely the case, you'd likely need a bigger machine than the cnc you were making!)... but if you suck at engineering, it certainly eliminates the inaccuracies (holes slightly misplaced anyone?)

I'm a bit of a guitar buff...but I don't hang around on guitar forums insisting that all newcomers buy a parker if a yamaha pacifica is perfectly fine for their immediate needs... indeed it's more likely that I'd suggest buying a secondhand yamaha pacifica.....just sayin' (perhaps the CNC genre around these parts is a bit like a career in deep sea diving ...you start at the top & work your way down?)

[JAZZCNC]

You're right, instead I should have spent 3 years of evenings spec'ing sourcing & building. Some of the self build threads on here extend back to when Elvis could still visit the toilet without issue. Show me anywhere on the planet (webpage) you can buy a new machine with a similar spec.

Rubbish it's down to the individual how long it takes. Some have built perfectly good machines in less than a month.

I think you are still missing the point...ok, so you eat sleep breathe CNC machines, some folks just want to mill a pcb or a bit of acylic (it's akin to someone going into a car showroom asking about a ford fiesta for the school run & the salesman saying "pah, that thing won't carry girders, what you need is this Hummer")..& some folks don't want to spend yonks stroking their chin with a furrowed brow....I still reckon buying secondhand is viable - i.e. buy a modest secondhand cnc machine for £500...use it, sell it for £500....cost of ownership = £0 (re the machine I bought ...it's the most cost effective £500 I'll ever spend & for it's purpose - and as it whirrs its merry little way milling a pcb out, not once have I thought "Damn, if only I'd listened to those on mycncuk")

Yes your correct I do breath and live CNC but your wrong that I miss the point. I fully get the point of what your saying and it's with much experience thru helping many 100's of dissapointed people who have taken your penny pinching route that I speak.
These machines are great learning machines.! . . They learn you that operating a small CNC doesn't take long to learn. They also learn that you just wasted £500 + on a tool that is limited to scratching tin foil or icing cakes.!! . . . . There's a big difference between scratching and cutting correctly.

Cost of owner ship is more than the machine it's self, wasted time, wasted tools, wasted material, wasted hair all come into the equation. These machines by there very design (ie Weak and slow) can not avoid wasting time and tools.
They are so poorly built using cheap components that they are limited in the feeds they can achieve. This means at best they may just meet the requirements for correct feed rates so that tools don't wear prematurely. But In majority of cases they can't reach any where near whats required so tools wear out very quickly shortening tool life.
Tool wear leads to tool breakage so wasted time, material and tool are the outcome. Often it's blamed on being new and put down to learning.
Fact is It's not all down to this and mostly down to the fact the machine can't reach the correct feed rates where tool isn't stressed.!

Those that can are constantly operating at there maximum capabiltys which wears the cheap nasty bearings etc. So machine quickly becomes sloppy and baggy. This causes lock ups etc in short order with resulting hair pulling sessions.
And I won't even go into the Junk electronics.!!

(perhaps the CNC genre around these parts is a bit like a career in deep sea diving ...you start at the top & work your way down?)

No your start at the top and never look back thinking WTF did I buy that pile shite.!!!

[HankMcSpank]

. And I won't even go into the Junk electronics.!!

Aside from the CNC machine frame, my modest £500 outlay also got me a control box, with these bits & bobs inside (not the VFD, it was barfed & removed)...



So not all chinese sourced machines aren't built equal.

I can see the salient point here isn't getting across, not everyone has time to either research or build a machine & not everyone wants to mill metals. A secondhand machine can still perform just fine within its boundaries & yield great results (i.e. I'm a happy user) ...and even if it doesn't, you simply sell it on to some other sucker & blame mycncuk for not warning you about the shite on the market ....no loss! :-)

if you are very keen & knowledgeable on hammers, then everything begins to look like a nail, but it's horses for courses blah blah

Now then about that Hummer you've got for sale...can I park it ok at the local Lidl?

[JAZZCNC]

Aside from the machine frame, my £500 also got me a control box, with these bits & bobs inside (not the VFD, it was barfed & removed)...

So not all chinese derived machines are built equal.

So what do you think you have there that is so special.? . . . .I've replaced blown Moon SR drives in 3 separate machines this year.!! Oh and 2 of the shity BOB's they tend to put with them.!!

Point is not all about building. It's about buying something that is fit for purpose. Be that new or secondhand. Most buy these machines with the purpose of cutting multi materials, Woods, plastics, etc and they can't even do that correctly without stressing the machine. Anything that is constantly stressed cracks sooner rather than later and these machines at best are more stressed than Air traffic controller.!

But I see we'll just have to agree to disagree and let the good folks take there own route. Hopefully they'll listen to experience and make use of it.