Denford Triac VMC with ATC Conversion / Fix

[Chaz]

Great find/buy, you lucky lucky man, looking forward to seeing this one unfold.

.Me

Thanks. Not sure what this is worth but considering that the smaller (I think) Denford Triacs (none VMC / ATC / Servo) with a retrofit kit seem to sell for around £3500, I am please with what I have paid and got thus far.

A bit worried about the missing pneumatic bits. Other thing that concerns me, how the heck do I move it?

[Lee Roberts]

Engine hoist or pump/pallet truck, tho you could just use steel bars and roll it on those into place, will need to of you to do it safely.

.Me

[Chaz]

Engine hoist or pump/pallet truck, tho you could just use steel bars and roll it on those into place, will need to of you to do it safely.

.Me

Ye, thanks. I almost could not close the garage door and fortunately managed to squeeze is past the machine.

I can get to most of the bits now for fixing but it will need to be moved once working - its currently literally just in the middle of a double garage, not ideal.

Ill look at a hoist, but didnt see a lifting nut on the machine although the docs show this. Does it normally come with the machine or do you need to buy this separately?

For a pallet truck, would need to find a 'gap' under the machine to lift with or am I missing something?

[Lee Roberts]

Have a look at this video my friend adam did on moving a mill...

https://youtu.be/qLD5_sm93zE

Yea I noticed your garage was far to clean and tidy, time for some rearranging and much needed workshop space ?

.Me

[Chaz]

Have a look at this video my friend adam did on moving a mill...

https://youtu.be/qLD5_sm93zE

Yea I noticed your garage was far to clean and tidy, time for some rearranging and much needed workshop space ?

.Me

Thanks. Garage is a mess actually. I think the pics paint the wrong image ;p

[Chaz]

OK, up early, cant sleep. Some of many questions:-

Current plan is to use the CS Labs IP-A controller. Gary from Zapp (and JazzCNC) seem happy that this should work based on the info shared. Let's assume it does but I may have a drive or motor faulty (I cant test them at present), what do I do then? These motors / controllers look to be too pricy to replace like for like. If I get something that uses Step / Direction, I need a different controller? Also, if I am looking at 4th axis for later, how do I plan to take that into account? I dont want to buy and IP-A and S model, the costs are too high and I dont know if you can use both together.

In terms of other considerations:-

Convert to single phase. The coolant motor can be wired for this, problem solved. It looks like someone has fit a newer 24V PSU as per the pic below. Will use this for 24V logic.



I need 110V, not for a lot though, if needed, can fit a transformer for that. There is also a 15Volt feed that comes from the 110V line to supply power for the Axis Drive Logic, I assume I need this for the retrofit?

The remaining 110V items are a mix of relays and solenoids, mainly for the pneumatics for the ATC. I am missing all the solenoids and the pneumatic ram for the left/right of the ATC. i2i (thanks very much for your time yesterday), may be able to provide the details / measurements for a replacement.

There is a board where the X Y and X axis connect, do these breakout anywhere that allows for wiring to the new controller?



There is then the terminal strip however this doesnt seem to cover all connections, mainly power (wire 31 / 32 etc)?



In terms of connections needed to make this work, missing anything below?

E Stop
X Y Z Axis input / feedback
X Y Z Limit Switches
Spindle input / feedback (forward and reverse)?
Spindle Enable?
Coolant stop / start
ATC controls, carousel up/down (relays), Drawbar solenoid, Door open / closed (is this used?)
Do I need air pressure / lube float / guard contact (not sure if thats the main door or something else)?
Feedrate / Spindle override?
X Y Z Overlimit (wired via estop)
Carousel switches (in, out, up, down, sensor)

Phew, anything else?

In terms of things to get:-

Controller
PSU for 110V potentially, this is currently having 400V as its input, so need to replace this with 220V input
Missing actuator for Carousel left / right
Missing Solenoids (all)
PC - have a number of older machines, will make something from the bits
Monitor, want to use the existing arm / base if possible, ideally touchscreen
Mach 4 (possible?) or Mach 3
Possible buttons for common things (Stop / Start etc)

Anything Ive missed?

Is there any easy way to test the X Y Z drives / motors considering I have no real way to power anything on the 110V rail and 15V Axis PSU?

Thanks in advance.

[Chaz]

I assume this is what I need for the missing solenoids?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Position-5-Way-Air-Solenoid-Valve-Kit-4V110-06-1-8-PT-DC12V-Pilot-operated-/281665139189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41948c f1f5

110V, 5 way? If not that specific item, something similar? It looks like the previous ones were DIN rail mounted from the pics showing what might have been there before ...

[JAZZCNC]

Chaz i2i offered help I strongly advise you to take him up on his offer. You can't beat someone with actual experience of the machine your converting.
While Gary and Me have plenty of experience we don't have any on what's inside that exact machine. i2i Does and will know exactly what you can keep and what can be disguarded.
He's say's it's an easy enough conversion so I suspect he knows how to connect to any existing Motion controller built into the machine so you may not have to buy one at all.!!

Do your self a favor and speak to him before doing anything.!! (If you haven't all ready.)

Edit: Regards Moving it. !hink like an egyption.!!!. . . . They moved stones the size of your house with levers and logs.!!!

[Chaz]

Ok. It's working now. Had to check direction a few times. Lots of dirt in the pipes etc. Pump not healthy but manages some pressure now.

Can anyone link a fluid I can use mainly for ALU?

[Chaz]

So, not a trick question .... but would like some confirmation of what my X and Y steps should be. I have it very close but Id like to know how the number is calculated. I know the formula, but on the current info I have, the 725 value does not look correct.

The issue is that I dont know the config of the drives. I do not have access to them and therefore there could be a host of different 'steps per rev' measurement. could be a number of values.

So If I take some of these, I cannot match the value that I am currently using which is 725. This seems very accurate, I am getting measurements within 1% but I need to do more testing. I may have a bit of backlash which *might* account for some inaccuracy, certainly on my Y.

Please see the table below. I take a number of options and nothing matches 725. I then swap the gear ratio around and the closest I get is 819.2.

The third table (in green) I simply reverse engineer from 725 and get some random steps / rev, could either of these be correct?

The claimed maximum output from the driver manual is 1024, but am aware that this could be multiplied by 2 or 4?

Thoughts?

Thanks