All steel, no welding, 2000x1300x250mm

[Boyan Silyavski]

i don't want to discourage you but as i have some experience doing similar assemblies from laser cut parts:

-going from square to round rails is a very bad idea at that point. Why waste effort and money then to make all that rigid structure. If you go with round rails then make a simpler square profile structure, no need to make that laser cut monster

- BST automation at aliexpress , Fred is a very good seller, he could do all that stuff, machining screws, send 3m well packed ball screws, lower value, etc. tell him Boyan sends you, he gives me best prices compared to ebay and aliexpress, furthermore you could order all from him, including VFD ans spindle, he has more than he lists, just email him, no problem with errors or warranties

-the way you fix your motor and ball screw, that moves the Z left right, take care to be able to adjust that

-as i made some similar stuff i am telling you you will need at least 12 heavy duty clamps to be able to straighten all and solder. plus a big plastic hammer at least, i would say you will need a press. see what i did here for the Z #155 and imagine at your scale of things how difficult that will be in reality if plate is not straight after cutting

[eurikain]

i don't want to discourage you but as i have some experience doing similar assemblies from laser cut parts:

No worries, you are not discouraging me at all ! I appreciate very much the effort you put in giving me advice, and I am willing 100% to listen to you !

-going from square to round rails is a very bad idea at that point. Why waste effort and money then to make all that rigid structure.

Yes, I've decided to go round rails, no doubts. My next build with higher budget will get those HIWIN stuff.

If you go with round rails then make a simpler square profile structure, no need to make that laser cut monster

What do you mean ? I don't picture it very well :/

- BST automation at aliexpress , Fred is a very good seller, he could do all that stuff, machining screws, send 3m well packed ball screws, lower value, etc. tell him Boyan sends you, he gives me best prices compared to ebay and aliexpress, furthermore you could order all from him, including VFD ans spindle, he has more than he lists, just email him, no problem with errors or warranties

Right, I've seen you guys all buy from him. I'll note that and make sure I order from him next time. I won't forget to tell him it's from you so I can get best prices. It's nice of you to share !

-the way you fix your motor and ball screw, that moves the Z left right, take care to be able to adjust that

Okay, I'll make slots for the motor holes. I have more room on the Y axis. Z is a bit tighter so not sure I can have big slots there.

-as i made some similar stuff i am telling you you will need at least 12 heavy duty clamps to be able to straighten all and solder. plus a big plastic hammer at least, i would say you will need a press. see what i did here for the Z #155 and imagine at your scale of things how difficult that will be in reality if plate is not straight after cutting

Sounds good. But, what kind of clamps are you talking about ? Can you give me an example ? Maybe I can ask the cutter to surface the steel ? I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask what they can do to minimize the distortion effect due to heat. Water jet cutting would probably solve this issue. Post-heating / pressing the plates as well (?). But as you said, a good rubber hammer and clamps will do it with enough patience.

[Boyan Silyavski]

Sounds good. But, what kind of clamps are you talking about ? Can you give me an example ? Maybe I can ask the cutter to surface the steel ? I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask what they can do to minimize the distortion effect due to heat. Watergate cutting would probably solve this issue. Post-heating / pressing the plates as well (?). But as you said, a good rubber hammer and clamps will do it with enough patience.

No need for water jet cutting. cause the plate itself is not straight in the planar dimension.

talking about gantry


What i am saying is that wyou will need big woodworking clamps to clamp together the front plate to the cut of the up and down plates. As the cut will be straight you have to push well the fron and back plate so they are flat against that edges. Which could be a challenge even with clamps . Do you get what i mean? You may be will need a press and then clamp. But when you have them at hand you will see.

Cause if you dont clamp them well against that edge prior to soldering, you will need to epoxy level below the rails.

[eurikain]

Alright I understand what you are saying now :) !

But a more general understanding of what you are saying is (correct me if I'm wrong):

If you go with round rails then make a simpler square profile structure, no need to make that laser cut monster

+

Cause if you dont clamp them well against that edge prior to soldering, you will need to epoxy level below the rails.

= Forget the IKEA-like nuts and bolts to fasten the plates. Just weld it together. May be make bigger joints so I have larger spots to weld.

?

[eurikain]

@toomast: This is sort of embarrassing, but after applying steel 304 to all my parts (except standard parts like leadscrews and stuff) solid works calculates 280kg (where 57 kg for Z axis)......... oO ?? Is that even possible ?

[eurikain]

Important updates:

Following Boyan's advice, I am switching to a new Z / Y / gantry design, adapting my old one, removing nuts and bolts. I am also switching to ALUMINIUM instead of steel, as this thing is way too heavy. The new design lightens it but going to aluminium will be the solution. I'll be using 20mm sheets, unless you guys think 15mm is better to reduce weight. I'll be adding pockets at some places to lighten the whole thing.

I called the cutting company. They said parts will be water jet cut (I have no choice on that, but no big deal, I've got good prices anyway) with .25mm accuracy.

I keep the round rods, no changes on that. Instead of being supported by profiles, they will be supported by M8 bolts every 70mm plus at both ends.

Here are the pictures of the Z axis, evaluated to 17kg, but that should decrease with pocketing.

Complete Z.

Z without front plate.

Cheers.

[Boyan Silyavski]

Important updates:

Following Boyan's advice, I am switching to a new Z / Y / gantry design....

What are you doing right now is Not following my advice. Of course its your machine, i am just trying to help. Seems you a missing my biggest point. What i told you before:

Keep the design with square rails! Save from all else. Dont compromise on that. Dont exchange that for a vacation



Ok i understand - expensive, you want to change the design to round rails. Then read some similar build logs and design much lighter and simpler frame.


Here is my advice:

-make the Z strong. 20mm aluminum plate is Not strong enough if not braced. Ideal will be 12-15mm steel plate, braced and done like#8 here where i explain much better and simpler Z design with the same effort

-make gantry from profiles cut on a Rage saw and soldered. gantry sides also. Look my second project in signature for the gantry sides / 100x100 profile/ Design all machine from one profile, say 80x80x4mm or 100x100x3mm , no fancy plates and crap where you waste money. Order 6m steel box profiles, cut all on Rage saw and solder.

From here you will save the money for the square rails. Difference between square rails and other type of linear movement is like from Ferrari compared to Trabant


-My direct advice is follow my first build and change gantry sides like i did them on my second. Thats the cheapest and strongest machine at the same time possible.

[Wal]

I keep the round rods, no changes on that. Instead of being supported by profiles, they will be supported by M8 bolts every 70mm plus at both ends.

Stop. Think about that. Then think about it again and again until this crazy idea is banished from your head..!

(Out of morbid curiosity, how were you ever going to make that work..?)

Wal.

[toomast]

@toomast: This is sort of embarrassing, but after applying steel 304 to all my parts (except standard parts like leadscrews and stuff) solid works calculates 280kg (where 57 kg for Z axis)......... oO ?? Is that even possible ?

Yeah, thats more like it. Steel is heavy stuff.
I see you have a lot of feedback with good advice. It is not easy to decide the correct path ;)

[eurikain]

Sounds good, I'll think about it and rethink everything :)

@Wal: It works in SW :) I just didn't think steel was going to be that heavy x) Obviously this is due to the size of the machine, not much about the thickness of the steel. 1300mm Y travel implies at least 1700mm gantry width. Using 100x100x3 profiles will definitely be the key to lightness :)