Boxford 165 HMC

[chris w]

Thanks for response jazzcnc, I am struggling to get the spindle wiring done i don't understand the 3 small relays apart from one of them is for the splash guards and one for the spindle forward then the relay on its own next to the spindle drive is the reversing relay.
the large contractor seems to be for system enable?? As when I power on and press a green button it then makes.


I know it looks untidy but I been pulling the wires out to trace them and then mark them up,
chris w.

[uli12us]

Chris, I have the table and a double bracket with small Vice for the machine, but first I have dismantled all, to see if the guides are ok, how is all build and so on. I will try to remove the ratchet from the rotating axe and add a small bicycle brake so I can move not only in 45° steps. Maybe later, I will add a 5th axe and can machine parts nearly complete. If I add some
highgrade connectors, then I can change different slides, because the parts are not really heavy.

Unfortunately, I don't have any documents for the machine, I asked Boxford before but they write, the machine is to old and really rare, so they haven't any documents, parts or anything else. I write to the school, from where the machine is, but got no answer til now. What number has your machine, mine is 4209, where I think 420 is the series and 9 is the machine number.

I can explain the 3 small relay under the big Relay (which is actuated, when you press the green button on the right sife of the cabinet and released with e-Stop at the buttontable and the red bar under the machine)

The first is actuated, when the front doors are closed, if the doors are opened, no move, whether axis nor spindle is possible.

the second starts and stops the spindle motor via the lenze driver.

the third, next to the big one, changes the direction of the spindle. 2=CW 2+3=CCW

But I haven't any clue what is the function of the single white relay, (your Pic3 below Lenze driver) I suppose, it's for the tool turret, that is only a geared DC-Motor who turns the tooldisc 1/8 turn and stops, when the switch came to the hole on the underside of the disc.

I've got a wiring diagram for the 190 VMC from another colleage from here, that I can send you, but thats not complete, because this machines have only 3axis instead 4. The only difference is a different Stepper drive ST-Electronic DS-200 integrated package, and only one fast serial Board for connection to the drivers. All others seem the same.

[chris w]

Uli12us, my machine 4208! Wow,
but I wish I had the nice wiring that is in your pictures, I have managed to see where the feed to the relays comes from I can see that in your pics.
Can you please take me a picture of the RL1 from above so I can see if there is wiring missing from the relay base, if you can send me the 3 axis drawings that would be great, I wonder if I should put a Fuji frenic or similar drive in because that would save the need for some of this wiring especially the spindle reverse!

Can you identify the wire that my screwdriver is pointing to or more important is where it goes to?
i want to fit homing switches on x,y&z and a probe to set tool lengths but I am a long way from that yet, eventually I will be engraving the odd clock face and milling some fancy little clock parts on this baby!
i took the tool turret off the machine for somewhere to put my laptop!!

thanks for your help,
chris w.

[uli12us]

I have some big trays for the machine to put the computer, Monitor, Keyboard and from 1995
maybe a big box of Diskettes on it, anyway, I want the toolcarousel and hope I can upgrade it to a 2nd disc, eventually if to room is sufficient, I'll try to add a ATC for it. Can it help, if you have the manual for the Lenze driver, I must see, if I have it in english instead german as well.

[chris w]

I have kept the disc with the tapers and numbers on it so I can identify the tools but my thoughts were if it's not an ATC then it's pointless!
i could use the google interpret web page for translation.
and I can look at the pictures.
thanks.

[uli12us]

The screwdriver should be the hot wire from mains Plug, the next is the neutral wire, but I don't know, how its made, that the hot wire comes always to the hot wire plug, we in Germany have a mains plug, that can entry in 2 positions, I don't know if in Britain the hot wire must be always in the same position. Long time ago, i have a neighbor from britain, he had a radio or something that won't work, i had just turned the plug and it runs.
the next 2 wires goes to the motor, the last 2 unconnected are for a Motor with solenoid instead a permanent magnet.

With tools, they have all nearly the same length ok, but if you have tools with different lengths, the toolturret is much safer

[JAZZCNC]

Thanks for response jazzcnc, I am struggling to get the spindle wiring done i don't understand the 3 small relays apart from one of them is for the splash guards and one for the spindle forward then the relay on its own next to the spindle drive is the reversing relay.
the large contractor seems to be for system enable?? As when I power on and press a green button it then makes.

The White Relay next to Speed controller is a Push Pull relay or Latching Relay. It has two coils A & B which latch it in either position so when power is removed the contacts stay latched in that position, in your case FOR or REV.
If you lift the clear flap on the top you'll see a little red switch this allows you to change one set of contacts from NO or NC. IE: A coil controls NO and B-NC and vise versa.
The smaller relay is used to switch these coils depending on Direction and is what you would control with M3/M4 using the Outputs from CSlabs.

Word of warning regards Cslabs Analog speed Output. Check out if the Lenze speed Ref input is isolated because if not then it will damage the Cslabs controller.
If not then you need an isolation circuit or provide a Speed Ref voltage from an Isolated source. Despite the Cslabs manual reading and actually saying it's Outputs are Isolated I know 100% the Analog Speed Ref Output isn't and if the Lenze is at Mains potential then it will fry the Cslabs unit.

[uli12us]

For this purpose they have the, so called isolation card that is mounted on the side of the lenze controller heatsink. The 3wires left goes to lenze, the other to mains and 0-10V from CSMIO.
If the motor should run in rev than you must wait, until complete standstill and maybe half a second, before you can switch the direction. Eventually you can add a second photo sensor and wait until no signal changes occur. Lenze wants a zinkoxid varistor, don't ask what that is.

How do you have transformed the 5V from CSlab Controller to the 12V that the stepperdrivers want, I'll try to use the ULN2803 like in the 2 additonal stepper boards. But I don't know from the datasheet if they make a H or L output wih a H-input.

[chris w]

Yes the tool length differences are a concern but my vertical denford doesn't have an ATC so I have a rack with numbers on it and the program has text in to tell me the tool number and descripition,
but that is why I want a tool setting probe on this machine I am hoping to be able to check/ set the tool length.

the difference in voltage between the CSI lab and the stepper I don't know about because I had a chap helping me when I first got the machine a year ago, and he advised that the CSI labs equipment was the way to go as you can keep all the original motors and drives but after we fit the CS labs unit I think his personal circumstances changed as I cannot contact him now.
he also owns one of these machines and told me there was only 16 made.
i will take you some pics of the wiring, I cut the wires and connected them into where he told me, the machines axes were smooth and quiet at 5000 mm/min Rapids we then set out to rewire the spindle as when we powered the machine up the spindle was always running at about 100rpm with no command, and even when we command m5 still it run,
but since then I have no contact with the chap so the reason that I so stuck.
cheers for the manual,
chris w.

[uli12us]

Always 100 rpm is a bit slow. If you haven't a problem to switch the motor manually on and off, maybe with the front switches, than you can connect the 2 wires directly to the relais, like original. Than you add a 10K rheostat to change the speed from a 10V connector to a outer contact. The slider goes to the +10V connector of the iso-Board. If I come to the machine the next days, I'll make some pics how the switches are connected in original. The CSMIO Board have 2 analog outputs, you need only one for the speed regulation of the motor.
If 16 machines are produced, then they are not so seldom, as I thought, but how much exists today?