Here we go again . . . MK4

[routercnc]

Well that link is quite read. OK, I think I get what you are saying there. I did initially put all ballnuts in the middle of the axis, at the centre of stiffness. I hadn't though about it in the way the article suggests, it was just an intuitive start point, but the flange on the ballnut means they need alot more space which pushes everything apart.

So the X axis ballnuts are now on the 'front' of the gantry, whereas the article suggest they should be further back in the middle of the gantry. Problem is that they would hit the X bearings and make everything wider which knocks onto the frame and bed. I've only got so much space and I had wondered about an enclosure in the future so don't want to go past the edge of the table with any parts.

The Y axis ballnuts are also on the side plate of the Y axis, not in the middle of the bearings. Again the flange would push them higher in Z, and they needed much more material under the bearing mounts at each end of the ballnut to support them. It all looked too tall when I drew it.

To summarise I think what the article is saying is that because things will twist and rotate, you should put the ballnut in the centre of rotation (that is rotation of the structural parts caused by moments) so that the nut sees minimum binding loads etc. I think that is a good principle to aim for where ever possible, however I think in practice the machine I've drawn will see relatively small loads at the ballscrew due to this deflection causing a radial / binding load on the ballnut and I'm not too concerned.

[Jonathan]

Well that link is quite read.

Mm, it's good stuff.

I've only got so much space and I had wondered about an enclosure in the future so don't want to go past the edge of the table with any parts.

I wouldn't prioritize the enclosure over the stiffness of the machine. The 'sufficiently strong' machine in my sig. is currently enclosed with shower curtains and sitting in a paddling pool containing 240L of coolant, in my friend's living room of all places. It's as crazy as it sounds, but it does work!

To summarise I think what the article is saying is that because things will twist and rotate, you should put the ballnut in the centre of rotation (that is rotation of the structural parts caused by moments) so that the nut sees minimum binding loads etc.

I agree that the radial displacement effects on the ballnut will be minimal, but I was still thinking about stiffness - namely that the center of stiffness is (by definition) the point where when the ballscrew applies a force (which can easily exceed the cutting forces), no angular deflection will occur. Prizes for working out how big the effect would be...

Dean: thanks, noted. If I ever design a machine where their form is not a constraint, I'll consider using them.

[routercnc]

As I feared the return to work after Christmas means workshop time has significantly reduced. For various reasons I've only been able to get about an hour in there.

But I have been able to get a few sessions on the CAD and this has meant I was able to go over some of the other designs and have one last go at unlocking some of the compromises. The net result is I've developed some of the other ideas and ended up with what I think is a much better design.

Old one for comparison:


Here is the new version:
iso

iso rear

X axis

Y axis

Z axis

Just X axis showing gantry, ballscrews, epoxy (orange), and custom ballscrew floating end as the ballscrews were not long enough to mount the standard floating end.

X axis drive and belt tensioning arrangement

Side View:


The new features are:
Gantry beams smaller
They are now 80x40x5 RHS steel (down from 100x60x5). I'd put too much emphasis on huge sections, whereas with a double beam gantry I could afford to scale them down and still have plenty of stiffness in reserve over a single gantry.
Because they are smaller I was able to re-configure the X-bearings, bring them closer together, and give more travel in X. They are now only 274mm apart which is getting close to my current machine spacing. I was also able to get the X ballnuts at the centre of stiffness, rather than at the ends of the gantry.

Y rails are much lower
With the smaller gantry sections the Y rails are now lower and closer to the tool, as are the Y axis bearings, which all provides more stiffness

Ballscrews lower
As the gantry sections are narrower I was much happier putting the ballscrews on the front and rear faces as there was much less of a bracket required to join them back to the main Y axis, therefore stiffer.
These are now much lower in Z which also puts them much closer to the tool, which reduces the moments, which lowers the forces on the Y bearings and makes the machine stiffer.
I was also able to put the ballnut in the centre of stiffness, rather than on the outer edge of the Y axis. There might be a marginal gain here I really don't know, but it does look nicer.

Y axis bearings spacing
By re-designing the gantry end plates to free up some space I was able to make full use of the linear rail and spread the Y axis bearings out considerably more than before - without losing travel. This should significantly improve the stiffness due to moment inputs when cutting in the Y direction. When coupled with the lower ballscrews there should be a double win here.
In one of my earlier posts I suggested that double ballscrew on Y eliminates racking - whilst this is true for rotations about Z axis, it is not for rotations about the X axis. To eliminate these you could add another 2 ballscrews lower down, but that is not practical (!) so you do still need to space the Y bearings out even with double Y ballscrews. Rotations about the Y axis are dealt with by having the double gantry beams no worries there.

X drive
I've gone with something a bit different here which does not use tensioning idlers. The steppers are on plates which are slotted, and the steppers are also in slots. Between them I should be able to tension the short belt up to the ballscrew, and the syncronising belt across to the other stepper at the same time by pushing the motor off into one corner. Everything is 5 HTD with 15mm belts.

Cooling
I've decided that there are a couple of options to place the radiator, plus the option just to go for the 'big metal bucket' out of sight. So I'm going to build it and then just see which one takes my fancy. Sometimes you can CAD things too much and get tied up in the last details.


Luckily the new design retains the parts I'd already made so nothing lost. Thank you for the comments made so far, stirring up the doubts I had about some aspects, and making me revisit the previous designs. I think it is all the better for it.

Right, time to start CAMing up some of the parts ready for whenever the next workshop session is . . .

[routercnc]

This lot arrived recently.

2off - RHS for the raised X axis sides - seems pretty square and reasonably straight




2off - 80x40x4 RHS for the gantry beams

1off 30x5 flat bar to reinforce the gantry beams where the rails will sit


2off ballnut mounting blocks (~£9 each)


And 4off 16mm open bearings to double up on the Y axis to make 4 per side (no photo)

Also, got a bit of time this week end to nearly finish the X axis motor mount / belt tensioning plate:

Laying it out:


First pocket:


More cutouts and slots:


Holes spotted, top skimmed, and profile roughed and finished:


Bought a new 6mm 2 flute 45deg helix (for aluminium) carbide from 'cncpoorboy' on ebay (for about £9) recently and just tried it out.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014350347...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Very impressed with the finish:



Some work on the drill press:



Need to skim one side and tap the M5 holes for the stepper, then its another one done.

In case you were wondering the slot will hold the head of 2off M8 bolts to stop them rotating whilst allowing it to slide in the slot. On the other side will be a spacer and a bearing guide to tension the belt.

[routercnc]

Tiny bit of progress. X axis motor mount / belt tensioner plate finished.


Here is a trial fit of an M8 bolt head in the slot (final part will use an M8 nut):


Also started making one of the bits on the gantry. I snapped a cutter on final the 20mm pass ! Always the worst bit right at the bottom of a deep slot when the chips can't get out. It welded up and I didn't stop it in time.


Luckily I had a spare so finished the cut. Setting up for the holes in the edges.

[Clive S]

Coming along nicely where did you get that vise?

[routercnc]

Hi Clive
Thanks for the encouragement! If I multiplied time taken per piece by number of pieces to make I might get disheartened. So I'm trying not to think about it.
Vice was from Arceuro. It was about £35 and is surprisingly accurate (a DTI along the fixed jaw barely moves) and the base is fairly parallel to the jaw runner surface (therefore workpiece is fairly parallel to bed)
But after first use the thread got swarf on it which went into the nut and it is very hard to turn. I can't get it apart to clean it out so if you get one put a cover on the thread first. It's actually a drill press vice but is working ok for my gentle machining
To be honest I am going to replace it with a precision vice as one of the future jobs needs to be more accurate than this and I'm fed up trying to tighten the screw. Arceuro make some nice ones with ground surfaces all over and antilift jaws. They are also quite low in height which is good. if I buy one and like it I may get another as a pair of vices can be really useful

[Tom J]

As I feared the return to work after Christmas means workshop time has significantly reduced. For various reasons I've only been able to get about an hour in there.

But I have been able to get a few sessions on the CAD and this has meant I was able to go over some of the other designs and have one last go at unlocking some of the compromises. The net result is I've developed some of the other ideas and ended up with what I think is a much better design.

Old one for comparison:


Here is the new version:
iso

iso rear

X axis

Y axis

Z axis

Just X axis showing gantry, ballscrews, epoxy (orange), and custom ballscrew floating end as the ballscrews were not long enough to mount the standard floating end.

X axis drive and belt tensioning arrangement

Side View:


The new features are:
Gantry beams smaller
They are now 80x40x5 RHS steel (down from 100x60x5). I'd put too much emphasis on huge sections, whereas with a double beam gantry I could afford to scale them down and still have plenty of stiffness in reserve over a single gantry.
Because they are smaller I was able to re-configure the X-bearings, bring them closer together, and give more travel in X. They are now only 274mm apart which is getting close to my current machine spacing. I was also able to get the X ballnuts at the centre of stiffness, rather than at the ends of the gantry.

Y rails are much lower
With the smaller gantry sections the Y rails are now lower and closer to the tool, as are the Y axis bearings, which all provides more stiffness

Ballscrews lower
As the gantry sections are narrower I was much happier putting the ballscrews on the front and rear faces as there was much less of a bracket required to join them back to the main Y axis, therefore stiffer.
These are now much lower in Z which also puts them much closer to the tool, which reduces the moments, which lowers the forces on the Y bearings and makes the machine stiffer.
I was also able to put the ballnut in the centre of stiffness, rather than on the outer edge of the Y axis. There might be a marginal gain here I really don't know, but it does look nicer.

Y axis bearings spacing
By re-designing the gantry end plates to free up some space I was able to make full use of the linear rail and spread the Y axis bearings out considerably more than before - without losing travel. This should significantly improve the stiffness due to moment inputs when cutting in the Y direction. When coupled with the lower ballscrews there should be a double win here.
In one of my earlier posts I suggested that double ballscrew on Y eliminates racking - whilst this is true for rotations about Z axis, it is not for rotations about the X axis. To eliminate these you could add another 2 ballscrews lower down, but that is not practical (!) so you do still need to space the Y bearings out even with double Y ballscrews. Rotations about the Y axis are dealt with by having the double gantry beams no worries there.

X drive
I've gone with something a bit different here which does not use tensioning idlers. The steppers are on plates which are slotted, and the steppers are also in slots. Between them I should be able to tension the short belt up to the ballscrew, and the syncronising belt across to the other stepper at the same time by pushing the motor off into one corner. Everything is 5 HTD with 15mm belts.

Cooling
I've decided that there are a couple of options to place the radiator, plus the option just to go for the 'big metal bucket' out of sight. So I'm going to build it and then just see which one takes my fancy. Sometimes you can CAD things too much and get tied up in the last details.


Luckily the new design retains the parts I'd already made so nothing lost. Thank you for the comments made so far, stirring up the doubts I had about some aspects, and making me revisit the previous designs. I think it is all the better for it.

Right, time to start CAMing up some of the parts ready for whenever the next workshop session is . . .

Amazing project - can not wait till is finished
I had similar idea how to drive two ballscrews

[routercnc]

Thanks Tom. Yes, lots of ways to drive 2 ballscrews - that one would work as well.

Your little machine looks really good. Nicely built !

[routercnc]

OK, more updates. To finish off the info on the bed rail supports, here is the little jig I made up to hold the bosses in place:


Here it is in position:


It uses 6mm shoulder bolts to give a good reference position and picks up off the inner tapped hole already there. This holds the boss in just the right place for welding. It's now ready for welding - just need to catch my friend with the welder in the next few days or so. This is bolt down the supported rail which obviously uses a pair of bolts on either side of the flange.
I've also taken the opportunity to spot out the holes for a profiled rail (i.e down the middle) to make a future upgrade much easier to do.


Next up are the end plates which hold the motor mounting plates. Starting with a nice skimmed off the sacrificial board:


Then setting up:

(note that I've scribbled down the X, Y, Z coord of the workoffset on the drawing - I always write them down in case of power failure)

I'm making a mirrored pair here. A few holes, and a large pocket in the middle of each one. You can drill and screw through the waste first, but and I'll talk you through my approach on the large cutout as it worked quite well as an alternative. This is all to avoid those terrible tool witness marks from tabs.

1) Use an inside profile with a 1mm offset (remaining stock on the side wall) WITH TABS.


2) Then drill through the tabs with a cordless drill to remove the waste:


3) Manually jog the machine to remove most of the tabs (not critical to get all of it)


4) Clean up profile pass to remove the last 1mm. I do this in 2 stages as this is what works for my machine. 1st cleanup 3mm DOC, 0.9mm WOC, final cut full DOC, 0.1mm WOC.

Gives this surface finish:


Then bolting down, removing clamps, and onto the profile cut:


Same approach as above using a rough cut leaving 1mm stock, then semi-finish 3mm DOC, 0.9mm WOC, and finish full DOC, 0.1mm WOC. A stiffer/better machine might do the finish in one pass. I'm also limited to 6mm max cutter on ER11 collet. Good finish anyway:


Mirror part cut the same way, then some holes tapped and surface cleaned up:


The bearing end plates were done in the same way:


Then onto the bearing holders:




They will be a light press fit:


Second one made:


Trial fit onto the bearing plates:


This allows the ballscrew end bearing position to be fine tuned when setting up.
__________________

Moving away from the X axis and onto the Y axis - the belt tensioning system progresses. Turned some standoffs to hold the adjustable belt guide bearings:



______________________________

Looking ahead I need to turn down the end of one of the ballscrews. Made these 2 bits to hold it in the lathe. First is a protective collar to stop the jaws damaging the ballscrew:


Made it by boring a hole into some round stock on the lathe.
Then machined a hex onto some round stock:


Then used the hex to give 120 degree spacing to machine the 3 slots. Don't have a hex collet block which would have done the job!


Then back to the lathe to part it off:


Then to support the end of the ballscrew as it passed out of the headstock a spider/collar to fit inside the lathe spindle bore and hold the ballscrew. The ballnut is then 'tightened' up against it. Copied the whole idea off Youtube so should be OK!