Comparing motion controllers...

[Clive S]

So, to get back on track... There´s either the IP-M or the PoKeys57CNC right now.

Jazz had me pretty convinced about the IP-M until i read Boyans comments about the PoKeys57CNC...

You will need one belt for the slaved axis with the IP-M If you want two motors slaved you will need http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...-step-dir.html if I have linked correctly Jazz has had a lot of experience with all the CS lab stuff and it is tried and tested

[JW1977]

You will need one belt for the slaved axis with the IP-M If you want two motors slaved you will need http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...-step-dir.html if I have linked correctly Jazz has had a lot of experience with all the CS lab stuff and it is tried and tested

No belts! The IP-M can do slaved axis but it doesnt support the gantry geometry correction...
As being mentioned in this thread that will have to be done in another way. A bit rough but well working apparently...

[komatias]

So, to get back on track... There´s either the IP-M or the PoKeys57CNC right now.

Jazz had me pretty convinced about the IP-M until i read Boyans comments about the PoKeys57CNC...

There is nothing wrong with the Ethernet Smoothstepper if you are going to buying a breakout board. The support is fine now, even though in the past it was sketchy. I know Jazz has his opinion on the generic breakout boards and he is justified. To be fair, we have seen countless conversions and builds use the standard 5 axis BOB's and work just fine. The latest incarnations of them will run on 12-24Vdc and even modulate 0-10V for combination with VFD's while being fully optoisolated. You do need to be careful with your cabling and grounding whatever controller/BOB you go for so it is all up to you which one you prefer.

Backlash compensation has been painted as a hack, however even the big boys do it (even when they use ground screws). That is the only way you can use C7 cheap ballscrews and not chase your tail wondering why your circles are not round. If you can afford the C5 with preload or zero backlash then yes you can forego backlash compensation.

[JAZZCNC]

So, to get back on track... There´s either the IP-M or the PoKeys57CNC right now.

Jazz had me pretty convinced about the IP-M until i read Boyans comments about the PoKeys57CNC...

How can Boyan or anyone comment when they've never used the IP-M or had any dealings with Cslabs. ?
The Pokeys is ok and for the money gives good value but it's not in the same league as the IP-M or Cslabs products. Also it does require a BOB because it's I/O are not protected. The I/O logic is still 5v and comes with all the potential noise issues low voltage can give. There's much more to Cslabs than just being in case.!

Cslabs are very good as a Company and at software, they always respond to any questions or problems. not always instantly but in general they come back to you quick enough. Which is more than lots of hardware manufacturers do. They do and have listened to requests for features that's exactly why the IP-M now does slaving, it didn't at when first released. So it's not fair for him to say such comments and condem the company just on some else comment.

I have no loyality to any manufacturer and trust me if the Pokeys was better than the IP-M or Cslabs products I'd be using it and telling you and everyone else to use it. That doesn't mean the pokeys isn't a good controller it's ok but it's not and I repeat it's NOT in the same league as the IP-M.

I spend a lot of time and money testing products I fit on machines and won't ever comment if I haven't used or tested them properly. But end of the day everyone as to make there own decison and work to different budgets. I just pass on my experience, if folks care not to listen then that's there choice.! . . . Personaly when someone with experience advises me I tend to listen.

[JW1977]

There is nothing wrong with the Ethernet Smoothstepper if you are going to buying a breakout board. The support is fine now, even though in the past it was sketchy. I know Jazz has his opinion on the generic breakout boards and he is justified. To be fair, we have seen countless conversions and builds use the standard 5 axis BOB's and work just fine. The latest incarnations of them will run on 12-24Vdc and even modulate 0-10V for combination with VFD's while being fully optoisolated. You do need to be careful with your cabling and grounding whatever controller/BOB you go for so it is all up to you which one you prefer.

Backlash compensation has been painted as a hack, however even the big boys do it (even when they use ground screws). That is the only way you can use C7 cheap ballscrews and not chase your tail wondering why your circles are not round. If you can afford the C5 with preload or zero backlash then yes you can forego backlash compensation.

Thats interesting! Even if ive bought C7 ballscrews from Chai this time i want to make the machine as accurate as i possibly can.
Im leaning towards the smoothstepper once again. Its got all the fatures, a pretty good rep and there is lots of knowledge out there from people using it.

[JW1977]

How can Boyan or anyone comment when they've never used the IP-M or had any dealings with Cslabs. ?
The Pokeys is ok and for the money gives good value but it's not in the same league as the IP-M or Cslabs products. Also it does require a BOB because it's I/O are not protected. The I/O logic is still 5v and comes with all the potential noise issues low voltage can give. There's much more to Cslabs than just being in case.!

Cslabs are very good as a Company and at software, they always respond to any questions or problems. not always instantly but in general they come back to you quick enough. Which is more than lots of hardware manufacturers do. They do and have listened to requests for features that's exactly why the IP-M now does slaving, it didn't at when first released. So it's not fair for him to say such comments and condem the company just on some else comment.

I have no loyality to any manufacturer and trust me if the Pokeys was better than the IP-M or Cslabs products I'd be using it and telling you and everyone else to use it. That doesn't mean the pokeys isn't a good controller it's ok but it's not and I repeat it's NOT in the same league as the IP-M.

I spend a lot of time and money testing products I fit on machines and won't ever comment if I haven't used or tested them properly. But end of the day everyone as to make there own decison and work to different budgets. I just pass on my experience, if folks care not to listen then that's there choice.! . . . Personaly when someone with experience advises me I tend to listen.

Well im all ears and i try to keep an open mind. I will make my decision based only upon the answers i will get from you here.
Btw i have send the people att CSLABS a mail now.
What do you say about the IP-M lacking electronic backlash compensation?

[Clive S]

No belts! The IP-M can do slaved axis but it doesnt support the gantry geometry correction...
As being mentioned in this thread that will have to be done in another way. A bit rough but well working apparently...

So you are going with the hard stops route!!

[JAZZCNC]

What do you say about the IP-M lacking electronic backlash compensation?

I say for router it's not required. If you have that much backlash that it shows in wood or light aluminium work then you need to address the problem. Software won't help you.!

To answer George(Komatias) mentioning the Big boys using backlash comp then it's like comparing apples with oranges. There control software is in another league to anything we use and can't be compared. They are also talking about tiny tiny amounts of backlash that you could only dream about getting close to achieveing.

The ESS is perfectly good Controller I never said it wasn't and I do use them. But it offers very little other than individual homing for a stepper system. The Extra frequency it allows you can't use. The BOB is potential problem despite what may be said and unless you buy decent quality BOB then it's like a lottery to how long it lasts or starts giving you troubles. In the past I've built machines with BOB's which work fine for years then all of sudden for no apparent reasons hair pulling issues start creaping into the machine. 99% of the time BOB is the cause.!

Regards using Timing belts then you won't loose any precision and keeps perfect sync of screws. If the machine isn't too large then I'd use Belts over Twin motors every time.

[JW1977]

I say for router it's not required. If you have that much backlash that it shows in wood or light aluminium work then you need to address the problem. Software won't help you.!

To answer George(Komatias) mentioning the Big boys using backlash comp then it's like comparing apples with oranges. There control software is in another league to anything we use and can't be compared. They are also talking about tiny tiny amounts of backlash that you could only dream about getting close to achieveing.

The ESS is perfectly good Controller I never said it wasn't and I do use them. But it offers very little other than individual homing for a stepper system. The Extra frequency it allows you can't use. The BOB is potential problem despite what may be said and unless you buy decent quality BOB then it's like a lottery to how long it lasts or starts giving you troubles. In the past I've built machines with BOB's which work fine for years then all of sudden for no apparent reasons hair pulling issues start creaping into the machine. 99% of the time BOB is the cause.!

Regards using Timing belts then you won't loose any precision and keeps perfect sync of screws. If the machine isn't too large then I'd use Belts over Twin motors every time.

Well i could "close" one of the short sides of the machine and put a belt design there. I would also save some money using 3 drivers/motors instead of 4. Could put those in som decent high voltage leadshine drivers instead.
The squaring problem would be gone and based upon what you told me the IP-M feels like a pretty bulletproof controller... It feels like the right thing to do. Its easier to make the machine better if i would like to once Ove got it up and running.
Should i make a belt tensioner or do i build it "right" directly?
Btw the machine is roughly about 900x700 mm...

[Boyan Silyavski]

How can Boyan or anyone comment when they've never used the IP-M or had any dealings with Cslabs. ?
The Pokeys is ok and for the money gives good value but it's not in the same league as the IP-M or Cslabs products. Also it does require a BOB because it's I/O are not protected. The I/O logic is still 5v and comes with all the potential noise issues low voltage can give. There's much more to Cslabs than just being in case.!

Cslabs are very good as a Company and at software, they always respond to any questions or problems. not always instantly but in general they come back to you quick enough. Which is more than lots of hardware manufacturers do. They do and have listened to requests for features that's exactly why the IP-M now does slaving, it didn't at when first released. So it's not fair for him to say such comments and condem the company just on some else comment.

I have no loyality to any manufacturer and trust me if the Pokeys was better than the IP-M or Cslabs products I'd be using it and telling you and everyone else to use it. That doesn't mean the pokeys isn't a good controller it's ok but it's not and I repeat it's NOT in the same league as the IP-M.

I spend a lot of time and money testing products I fit on machines and won't ever comment if I haven't used or tested them properly. But end of the day everyone as to make there own decison and work to different budgets. I just pass on my experience, if folks care not to listen then that's there choice.! . . . Personaly when someone with experience advises me I tend to listen.

The CSMIO is ~3 times more expensive than Pokeys, so really what we are talking about here? I have USA made non protected 5v breakout board coupled with Gecko that did not miss a step ever working sometimes 24/7 at 70 degrees C, by the way LPT, so at the end it matters if it works or not.