PDA

View Full Version : DDSCV1.1 3 and 4 axis offline motion controller



Boyan Silyavski
14-09-2016, 10:54 PM
HI,

After being looking at various controllers at the end i decided to test some of the offline ones. Started with one of the cheap ones. As you can imagine it would be great to forget about Windows if possible. So i decided to overview it "officially" here, hopefully sb could find that helpful.


DDSCV1.1, 3 and 4 axis. / note that in the 3 axis version you can not change any axis to rotational , but the 4rth axis variant, has a rotational axis option for A/



Mistakenly bought the 3 axis version / if sb wants that one , PM me/ . I have read the MANUAl (https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwipk57IjuvOAhVLbxQKHehgDwkQFggwMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Frobokits.download%2Fdatasheets%2F DS_DDCSV1_EN.pdf&usg=AFQjCNH6uV6dKjM3Rx3Fqx3XuIfSVvON1g&sig2=ft9H76GCQdE5--zbFO359A)from page one to end very carefully and apart from some small questions all looks well.

And yes, i will connect my 2 long axis to one of the controller axis or just one of them and control the other from the servo itself . Will see about that.

Here (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=11598.0) was the most extensive info in English i found till now

http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19113&d=1472629033&thumb=1 (http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19113&d=1472629033)


OK. So it arrived.

-Price paid 165$ for the 3 axis version
-nicely packed
-looks nice


According to me if one knows what he is doing it could be a perfectly self sufficient control for great price. It has spindle control, probing, software limits, separate axis homing, separate axis zeroing, etc.




Instead of writing novels, i made a video overview of it:

Part one, ~20 min introduction, basic functions and settings


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pN3F04nhZc



Part 2, running program test


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw1dpYfH-oE


Prt 3 / still to film, when i have more time will set it on my big machine, connect all and see how it moves, homes and so on in real life, otherwise all above is pointless/

Joules
15-09-2016, 09:55 AM
Hi, could you open the case and get a photo of the PCB, I am very interested in seeing the difference between the 4 Axis, if any. There is no problem driving two stepper drivers from one axis. The X on my router has two motors and I use two separate drivers from the X axis signals.

Boyan Silyavski
15-09-2016, 04:47 PM
here is the photo of the board:

Joules
15-09-2016, 05:25 PM
Thanks, thats just the picture I needed.

John S
15-09-2016, 09:04 PM
These controllers are going to be a game changer for the many people sat on the fence telling themselves CNC is too hard to get into.

magicniner
16-09-2016, 10:18 AM
These look great, what Lathe/Mill Post Processor is required to generate code for them?

Most similar things I've seen claim "Standard G-Code" but then don't mention which easily available Post Processors produce "Standard G-Code" as all the PPs I've found have a manufacturer/machine/controller designation.

Mach3 developers had the good grace to work close to a standard for a popular industrial controller rather than a paper standard to which no manufacturer quite adheres.


These controllers are going to be a game changer for the many people sat on the fence telling themselves CNC is too hard to get into.

Never underestimate the incapability of the masses, there's still all those scary wires to connect ;-)

- Nick

Boyan Silyavski
16-09-2016, 11:38 AM
These look great, what Lathe/Mill Post Processor is required to generate code for them?

Most similar things I've seen claim "Standard G-Code" but then don't mention which easily available Post Processors produce "Standard G-Code" as all the PPs I've found have a manufacturer/machine/controller designation.

Mach3 developers had the good grace to work close to a standard for a popular industrial controller rather than a paper standard to which no manufacturer quite adheres.



Never underestimate the incapability of the masses, there's still all those scary wires to connect ;-)

- Nick


That's the big question before jumping to conclusions

What i found till now:


- Post processor for mach3 definitely does not work, as you could see in second video it runs away from the job coordinates. Who cares, me not. I could save my programs again in the proper format


-It doe not recognise manual tool change code also. So jobs have to be split. Not big deal

-Does not recognise G20 and G21, so program must be in mm to begin with. No problem so far.

-Will run properly G code as of the Gcode and fanuc output from Aspire. Though program was simple. / See video2/ .


As i have not connected it yet to a machine i can not say more. But there is a good chance that all goes fine.

magicniner
16-09-2016, 12:42 PM
-It doe not recognise manual tool change code also.

Does it support a Tool Changer/Turret etc. ?

Boyan Silyavski
16-09-2016, 01:13 PM
This is a basic controller. The much more expensive Chinese controllers not only do all but close the loop also, at least the most expensive ones, which makes them really industrial

funny, i see now that it supports G20 and G21 but when i was testing it ?, so maybe i made a mistake somehow with the file. Will check again

That's what it supports.

1919919200

John S
16-09-2016, 11:20 PM
Does it support a Tool Changer/Turret etc. ?


No and neither does Mach 3 or LinuxCNC without 3rd party boards and a load of tossing about.

They are basically a cheap foray into CNC without a PC, monitor, licenses etc and all the Mumbo Jumbo that Mach and Linux entail.

magicniner
17-09-2016, 10:01 AM
No and neither does Mach 3 or LinuxCNC without 3rd party boards and a load of tossing about.

They are basically a cheap foray into CNC without a PC, monitor, licenses etc and all the Mumbo Jumbo that Mach and Linux entail.

I'm just trying to get a feel for whether it's a direction in which I should move, it does look like a great first foray into CNC solution, but given that I'm already au-fait and comfortable with Mach's Mumbo Jumbo I was looking for a step up rather than a step sideways and possibly down.

Although I've yet to have a PC fail I have upgraded my controller machine a few times to the point where it will hapily run my CAD/CAM. One very nice feature with Mach3 is that for approximately 60 I am able to have a fully configured, 100% functional backup PC with a new HDD on the shelf and any keyboard or monitor from my other systems can replace the ones on the CNC in the event of failure.

With any luck these all-in-one boxes will take off in the starter CNC market and grow with their customer base to offer enhanced capabilities,

- Nick

Boyan Silyavski
17-09-2016, 04:17 PM
I'm just trying to get a feel for whether it's a direction in which I should move, it does look like a great first foray into CNC solution, but given that I'm already au-fait and comfortable with Mach's Mumbo Jumbo I was looking for a step up rather than a step sideways and possibly down.

Although I've yet to have a PC fail I have upgraded my controller machine a few times to the point where it will hapily run my CAD/CAM. One very nice feature with Mach3 is that for approximately 60 I am able to have a fully configured, 100% functional backup PC with a new HDD on the shelf and any keyboard or monitor from my other systems can replace the ones on the CNC in the event of failure.

With any luck these all-in-one boxes will take off in the starter CNC market and grow with their customer base to offer enhanced capabilities,

- Nick


NIck, its true if all is working as its meant. Reality have shown otherwise.

For example:

Right now in machine i have LPT board from my old machine that was working perfectly there. But not here. Now probe will not work , spindle output will not work with correct PWM, from that results that my mach3 screen /MachStdMill / is not working 100%. All that why? because board is near the servo drives in the box, and not so near mind that.

But hey, before that i had the Pokeys that is Ethernet and 24v powered but 5v on inputs and outputs, so what? Same problems. Wait, i had the galil 8 axis board/ 600euro second hand/ even before that, but no support,DIY plugin and communication with pc good for the 80ies...and so on.

Do you know how much time i spend playing with boards and make them work? And when i did sometimes, it happens that after Ethernet board i had to change back to x86 windows, cause-hey mach3 will not work on a x64 machine with LPT. When all was fine then PC crashed ... I have 3 PCs for that purpose and thought like you think.


I would have bought one of the CSMIO rigth from the start , 24vdc, shielded, etc. But they made them so that they don't work with MachStdMill +the cheap one would not square at homing and is not so cheap at 300 euro. And the other one is quite steep at 800euro. And at that moment i cared about that, because i love that screen.



Now i care only to start machine and to work. What i am saying is that for a production, even if its home production, most important is when you start the machine -to work 100%. And yes, i could say the same- controller burns and i put another one inside it, program it for 1/2 and thats it. is not that the same?





In other words if i was happy with a combo for which i have payed 200 euro for software and 100-800euro for hardware, Why on earth would i be researching other possibilities and reading Chinglish manuals?


FIY i am looking now at the "next step" as you say it. So the answer is: yes there is, but not for 150 euro from china like the one we are discussing here. For the moment i have narrowed things to 980-990MDc overview (http://www.cncmakers.com/uploads/soft/Brochure/980MDc_Milling_Machine_CNC_Controller.pdf)and manual (http://www.gsk.com.cn/system/upload/2015109141056.pdf), there are even better ones - 1000 and 1500, but are priced near the model numbers and i think are out of scope for normal retrofit or DIY machine.

19201

Boyan Silyavski
20-09-2016, 01:03 PM
Small update with video to follow:

Controller is mounted in my enclosure and after i spend yesterday all day playing with it, i could say- I like it and i am very happy with it.

Machines moves smoothly as ever at 10000/min and 3000 acceleration. Spindle speed is stable. Program time execution- same as using Mach3 or 4.


Manual has some confusing Chinglish elements as to be expected.




Probing works very well but needs some clarification:

First of all there are 2 types of probing:
Where tool position is at the moment or in Machine Coordinates the probes place on the machine could be predefined and probe or another probe mounted there.

Now the trick. It should be done once only.
Put a tool in collet, tighten it at hand but leave it a bit untightened so that if machine pushes it towards bed it will move inside the collet but at same time is not loose.
One must go to probing settings and make sure probe thickness is set to 0.000 and if not set it so and make sure probing is enabled and " at current tool position".
Then go back to control screen and start moving Z towards table. When you hit Z in table, bit will move a bit into collet. So now you are 0 to table in Working coordinates. Use commands and set Z to 0 in Working Coordinates on screen
M0ve Z up more distance than the probe is thick / by the way Z up is + and down is -, toward you Y is - and away from you is +, X left is -, X right is +, the so called right cartesian coordinate system/
Lay probe on table surface / current Z0/ . + of probe is connected to conductive probe material, minus to spindle body or bit, +should be isolated by other material like plastic from below/
hit "MODE2" then "-A" x 2 times and probing starts . When bit touches plate Z goes up depends how much you have predefined in probe settings. If you look now at probe setting you will see a number that may not be your probe thickness. DO NOT CHANGE THAT NUMBER. Its not wrong.

Now you can probe normally, control knows your real probe thickness, even if there is a loss of power.

PRECAUTIONS:
1. When changing G54 with other WCS you lose your probe thickness so you must do that again. Be Careful! Until you figure all out, raise the probe on a sponge.
2. If you program one of the external buttons that could be connected as 0 instead of "start" / when you hit it it zeroes all in WCS / , then when you zero from it, after that you again gave to repeat the probe thickness setting like from the start. I will investigate further but its start to seem that when you probe and 3 axis are zeroed right before that, that means it comprehends it like you want to set probe thickness, not like setting your Z WCS zero.


I will continue later with my findings. Now back to work.

John S
20-09-2016, 07:55 PM
Thanks for the update Boyan, look forward to the video.

JAZZCNC
20-09-2016, 09:52 PM
Right now in machine i have LPT board from my old machine that was working perfectly there. But not here. Now probe will not work , spindle output will not work with correct PWM, from that results that my mach3 screen /MachStdMill / is not working 100%. All that why? because board is near the servo drives in the box, and not so near mind that.

But hey, before that i had the Pokeys that is Ethernet and 24v powered but 5v on inputs and outputs, so what? Same problems. Wait, i had the galil 8 axis board/ 600euro second hand/ even before that, but no support,DIY plugin and communication with pc good for the 80ies...and so on.

Do you know how much time i spend playing with boards and make them work? And when i did sometimes, it happens that after Ethernet board i had to change back to x86 windows, cause-hey mach3 will not work on a x64 machine with LPT. When all was fine then PC crashed ... I have 3 PCs for that purpose and thought like you think.

It's poor workman that blames his tools.!! . . . . There are many 1000's of people using these products with no trouble and even more using Mach3 very succesfully.
So maybe you might want to look at what your doing wrong if things are not working as expected.?

Now don't get me wrong on this I'm not beating up on you Boyan or saying don't buy these standalone controllers. What I'm saying is don't be so quick rubbish products that work perfectly fine for others.!

My take on these controllers is they make perfect sense in that they remove the PC side and all that goes with it. However they need much more testing before they can be fully trusted and hailed better than rest.! (Which I'm in the process of doing on the higher end controllers)

Mach3 is and always will be like Marmite.!!!!

John S
20-09-2016, 11:07 PM
Jazz, nothing you say applies to lathe.
Lathe in Mach 3 or 4 just doesn't work.
Dan Malch has managed to get it working in M4 but he's lost 3 months of his life. Is that worth it ?

Me I can't even get M4 to run, error message after error message and not one reply to forum posts.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Mach%204%20error%2015.jpg

Error message at the bottom, Line 42: I word given for arc in YZ plane.

Now correct me please but in line 4 does it not say G18 ?

And according to Mach's published list of G-Code G18 is XZ plane for lathe.

Boyan Silyavski
21-09-2016, 06:21 AM
It's poor workman that blames his tools.!! . . . . There are many 1000's of people using these products with no trouble and even more using Mach3 very succesfully.
So maybe you might want to look at what your doing wrong if things are not working as expected.?


My cabinet is steel. Line cables are 3 wire with ground connected. Every bit inside is connected to its own regulated power supply, no sharing. All PSU are shielded and grounded. With line filter before them to separate from servos or VFD eventual RFI /removed now as no help/. Signal and PSUs cables are Twisted, Shielded, Grounded. . Hell, even my Ethernet cable was CAT7 . How many people use cat7 cable to boards? My LPT cable to board and inside cabinet was shielded too.
My garage PC on other side is good for graphic design, i have all versions of Windows and even some you maybe have not heard of / custom builds made for fast processing / and i am around PCs from 1995 and repaired PCs and laptops for quite some years for other people.
In short - All here is prepared for connecting a HF plasma torch to machine so i highly doubt its my fault .


I dont trash. I say things how they are. Some boards were working fine, some half, some even not half. None 100%. When i pay 100 or 500 to sb, mentally i expect 100% but in real life i am happy with 90%. things to work. But 50%? Thanks but no. By the way 2 Pockey boards and 2 relay boards are on the way back right now to them. Had high hopes for them being made in EU, but no.

So i don't have your experience, that's why i am testing all on market which intrigues me. Next are some other controllers. And nope, i will not pay 800euro for CSMIO when i could buy a dedicated controller for that price

If i am doing something wrong, hows that the chinese board works now well and the other ones did not? In the same enclosure and same PSU. Its not shielded and by the way i had packed my previous board like a sandwich with aluminum foil at one moment just to check if that could be the problem.


And the time spend with boards were because of their crappy manuals also i must say. Pokeys for example. take a look at their Mach3 forum section. How many times the same bloody question Spindle and Probe. Not a word in the manual. I had to ask them also. Its like swimming against the current with some people.

So, no. Offline controllers may be at the moment a bit short of what could do, but when that shortcomings are ironed, i bet in the DIY world no one will buy anything else . And this controller we are speaking here for less than Mach3 / 4 licence is a no brainer . The red is not for you Dean but for the people who will read that post

John S
21-09-2016, 08:34 AM
And the time spend with boards were because of their crappy manuals also i must say. Pokeys for example. take a look at their Mach3 forum section. How many times the same bloody question Spindle and Probe. Not a word in the manual. I had to ask them also. Its like swimming against the current with some people.



This is the bit I feel for.
On another forum it was pointed out to me that PlanetCNC andd UCCNC can now do threading and rigid tapping so last night I wasted another hour to take a look, here is a copy of the post.

*******************************

It seems that PlanetCNC and UCCNC now support fully synchronised threading as well as rigid tapping.

Martin.

.

Thank you for those links Martin, I wasn't aware that either could do threading on lathe.

However having spent nearly an hour perusing both websites and down loading both hardware and software manuals for both I'm non plussed at what they can do. This is starting to get familiar ??

Planet CNC first.

The board says it can take spindle encoder in but in the 35 page manual of which 7 pages are spent telling you how to wire all the different types of limits switch [ which aren't actually needed for the machine to run] but no explanation of how to wire the encoder in and not even is it just index pulse or multi line. I suspect it's index pulse only which is not a lot of good for accurate work

UCCNC next

Again hardly any information other than a video of threading with a felt tipped pan. The hardware manual is 21 pages long 19 of which tell you how to connect it up to the ethernet port, [ is it THAT hard ? and if it is WHY ? ]

Then the last two pages tell you what the terminals are in flowing terms like output 1, 2,3 etc for Port 1, poert 2 is identical but no a clue where to connect to ?

So please excuse me if I don't throw 215 Euros for the UCCNC board and software plus breakout board and another 263 Euro for the Planet offering.

I don't think the shelf can stand any more white elephants.

Seriously lads it's this total lack of support that is killing this. They know if or how good it works but it's a closely guarded secret.

***********************************************

The reference to the shelf and white elepants is the fact that the shelf above the bench where I do all the CNC work is literally full of controllers, breakout boards etc etc that either don't work, are no longer supported etc, etc to the tune of somewhere between 1500 and 2000 and I for one have now decided after the Mach 4 fiasco above that enough is enough.

JAZZCNC
21-09-2016, 11:57 PM
Jazz, nothing you say applies to lathe.
Lathe in Mach 3 or 4 just doesn't work.
Dan Malch has managed to get it working in M4 but he's lost 3 months of his life. Is that worth it ?

Well wasn't really talking about Lathe John as it's not my thing as you know. Also I'm not defending Mach3.
You know because we've spoke several times on phone ranting about Mach4 and 3 that I'm also looking at these controllers. Mostly to eliminate the PC. Mach3 does good job for what I need for routers/mills. It's also massively flexible in what it can be made to control for one off custom jobs.

Like you I've also got box full of boards that have been tested and judged Crap. But this is same for any hardware, there's good and bad eggs so you need to crack few open n smell em.!!

My point to you Boyan was others are using them without issues so maybe given your having trouble with several it might be something your doing or Not doing that's causing your troubles. Or something around you.?
The fact you have fitted this controller and appears to be working ok out the box doesn't mean it won't show other issues or is masking the issue which will appear at later date.? . . . Like 8hrs into 10hr job so to me it's still too early to call. Thou agree it's good start.

However there are many potential pot holes it could fall down on like Canned cycles etc, long cycle times etc.
Lack of memory is also another issue. Even the higher spec controller is memory limited. 32Mb or even 64mb isn't enough for Large 3D programs and will require DNC to drip feed the code. For some 32Mb may seem plenty but I can tell you some the people I help have 3d files in the Gb's. Pauses or temp locks while dripping code, even if position is not lost, is problem on 3D surface because it leaves mark which wreck the job or at best cause extra work hand finishing.
Dripping from USB isn't always reliable and RS232 just defeats the point of stand alone Controller. All these things have to be tested and influence the final outcome.!! . . . . Unfortunately again we are back to Cracking open the Good or Bad Egg.? . . . Could smell sweet or Stink like John's week old under crackers. . :encouragement:

Soon I'll have the 4 axis 1000Mdc to play with and I'll report how it stinks.? And NO I'm not stiffing John's under crackers to compare . .:stupid:

Boyan Silyavski
22-09-2016, 09:14 AM
Dean,

I absolutely agree with you. Sometimes i have/had the tendency to over excite from happiness how i am cheating destiny but now i am taking great care this not to happen when i am evaluating sth objectively.

So there was a moment with the Pokeys, when i thought, hmm, cheap, multi functional and well tested for a month. This must be it. But the first job when i had to do 500 pieces, i found that every 8-10th piece it makes a mistake and f%%ks the work. Which errors cost me in money exactly what this little board cost me.
So to say a controller works properly, time is needed to do all scenarios. premature conclusions as you say are not good.


Why did you choose the 1000 board for the test? I am looking at many boards now and just making a spreadsheet , because i am a little baffled what are the differences. I read some manuals and at the moment am between the 1000 board you choose and the 235 or the 990 / another manufacturer.


Meanwhile i am officially searching for the manufacturer of the DDCSV .if sb knows sth., PM me.Web and emails from manual does not work. Also searching for latest software. If sb knows from where to download it, please a link. I tried some chines sites, but links not working.


If i continue to be happy with the board, next step is find the supplier, buy in quantity and start selling in EU,offering support, with possible rewriting or just adding details to manual, and one good day even correcting, customising and upgrading the firmware to suit better our needs. I already have some ideas.

I would like to do also with one of the more expensive boards. I am already discussing with manufacturers some details. These recent problems with various boards, lead me to believe i could offer in EU market 1 cheap, one middle priced and one lathe controller, support for them, and as i said, with the earnings, even customise them for the better. I know nothing for lathe, but will start at the moment with the other 2.


I would like to share that now i have a very funny feeling when i go to workshop, touch the mouse and move it, waiting for the screen to wake up. Then i realize that -no, no more PC. And I just push the start button on the enclosure and go out without looking back.

Luckily i have about 500 pieces from wood to cut from now on, so it will be quite a serious test. Also have to design some large 3d job and see what will happen. Does the 3d job make the largest file or what?

Boyan Silyavski
23-09-2016, 02:23 PM
Lack of memory is also another issue. Even the higher spec controller is memory limited. 32Mb or even 64mb isn't enough for Large 3D programs and will require DNC to drip feed the code. For some 32Mb may seem plenty but I can tell you some the people I help have 3d files in the Gb's. Pauses or temp locks while dripping code, even if position is not lost, is problem on 3D surface because it leaves mark which wreck the job or at best cause extra work hand finishing.
Dripping from USB isn't always reliable and RS232 just defeats the point of stand alone Controller. All these things have to be tested and influence the final outcome.!! . . . . Unfortunately again we are back to Cracking open the Good or Bad Egg.? . . . Could smell sweet or Stink like John's week old under crackers. . :encouragement:


I start to feel after reading a coupler of control manuals that its important what speed USB pen drive or card is fitted there, hence they sell the controller with certain USB card .

What you make of that / that's the 1000 series controller/:

l Be able to process up to 1000 blocks of program per second, which makes the high-speed & mini-line cutting available.
l Equipped with U-disk port through which CNC systems provide the following functions: store and recover systems’ software and machining data, perform DNC machining by executing a program in U-disks.


U disc must be USB disc/ In Chinglish/

JAZZCNC
23-09-2016, 03:32 PM
I start to feel after reading a coupler of control manuals that its important what speed USB pen drive or card is fitted there, hence they sell the controller with certain USB card .

What you make of that / that's the 1000 series controller/:

l Be able to process up to 1000 blocks of program per second, which makes the high-speed & mini-line cutting available.
l Equipped with U-disk port through which CNC systems provide the following functions: store and recover systems software and machining data, perform DNC machining by executing a program in U-disks.


U disc must be USB disc/ In Chinglish/

Boyan I never assume anything.! . . . More important I take what is written with pinch of salt, esp if written by the Chinese.! Which is why I have box full of cards etc.

When I get hold of the controller and fitted to working machine I'll give report back.

To answer your question from before the reason for the 1000 series was because I asked for controller best suited to Router and this was recommended.

Boyan Silyavski
24-09-2016, 03:52 PM
Hi folks,

Today i managed to make a short video of very interesting combination. DIY CNC +ESTL CAM trochoidal path + HSMAdvisor + DDSCV1.1 motion controller .



Mind me that it's first the time ever i use trochoidal toolpath, am testing the vacuum fixture and the board at the same time. So i was a bit afraid and limited the plunge rate, so i could react, cause i had the camera at my left hand. Thats why at the moment of entering the program i was trying to make sure i do not make a mistake.

All was perfectly calculated by HSMAdviser and executed by ETSL Cam. Thumbs up to the makers of these 2 programs. Look at that nice chips. So CAM +motion control here together cost less than 200 euro. At the moment ESTL cam starts showing properly the toolpaths as a list - as any normal program, I will be extremely happy to say:" Why pay more for Vectric?" . Even so its an excellent program. If only for the V carving and the Trochoidal toolpaths.

So i am more than happy. Freud 2 flute 19mm bit, 11mm depth pocket, then full depth 19mm profile . Both at 16000mm/min feed 5.8% or 27.8% degrees HSM width of cut


19267


I was really excited to see the machine move and cut so smoothly at 16000mm/min, i dont know if you will get to feel it from the video, but it was super smooth. Mass of gantry is around 200kg!

OK. here is the video. I show how the board copes with probing also. Lower the volume and enjoy, when you feel bored from watching the pocketing, at min 7:15 start the slotting at full depth:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6red66CDLxo

John S
24-09-2016, 06:21 PM
That looks very good Boyan.Must admit I have been looking at some of the videos from ESTL Cam.

njhussey
24-09-2016, 07:41 PM
I switched from cambam to estlcam and for what I do its brilliant.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Ger21
26-09-2016, 03:42 PM
UCCNC next

Again hardly any information other than a video of threading with a felt tipped pan. The hardware manual is 21 pages long 19 of which tell you how to connect it up to the ethernet port, [ is it THAT hard ? and if it is WHY ? ]

I'm moving from Mach3 to UCCNC for my next router, and just got my UC300ETH the other day. Connecting to the ethernet was very simple. Just go into the adaptor settings on the PC, and enter the UC300 address (10.10.10.10) and subnet. That was all I had to do to connect.

TP from the Mach3 forum is pushing CNC Drive to bring UCCNC to be comparable to Mach3 feature wise. It's already close, and getting better with each release.

Boyan Silyavski
26-09-2016, 03:43 PM
I'm moving from Mach3 to UCCNC for my next router, and just got my UC300ETH the other day. Connecting to the ethernet was very simple. Just go into the adaptor settings on the PC, and enter the UC300 address (10.10.10.10) and subnet. That was all I had to do to connect.

TP from the Mach3 forum is pushing CNC Drive to bring UCCNC to be comparable to Mach3 feature wise. It's already close, and getting better with each release.

What breakout board with it? Their own or sth 24VDC?

Ger21
26-09-2016, 03:57 PM
I've got the UC300 in an M44 motherboard from CNC4PC, and I'll be using their C62 breakout board which works with 24V inputs. If needed I can add an additional 24V input and output board (M27/M28 I think).

John S
26-09-2016, 04:11 PM
What is the cost of that lot ?

Ger21
26-09-2016, 04:19 PM
The UC300, M44 and C62 is about $370 US. The other two boards are an additional $40 each.
The UCCNC license was free with an introductory offer on the UC300ETH until Oct 15, or the first batch runs out.

Boyan Silyavski
22-10-2016, 10:55 PM
No it's the next upgrade to the dsv1.1 controller.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EU-Delivery-4-Axis-PLC-Controller-500KHz-off-line-operation-for-CNC-Router-Engraving-Milling-Machine/32751535243.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.18.NGWjl1&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10 068_10069_10084_10083_10017_10080_10082_10081_1006 0_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10078_10079_ 10073_10070_421_420_10052_10053_10050_10051,search web201603_7&btsid=7238a502-a235-42c7-a5d0-9d86512f92a2

Interesting.

When you lit it up did it have Rattm motor logo or the Digital Dream? I some how doubt that it's in fact an upgrade. More of a copy or rebranded. John,please take photos, you know how interest i am in that controller. And by the way many more people, as i constantly answer email about the youtube video.


I think my agent have found the original manufacturer. According to her and another agent who did the same job, this is sth like a cooperation between 3 separate people or sth. So truth be told i could not achieve a great price from them, even after a week of juggling back and forth and pressing them with serious quantities quote. So for now best option is 160 euro from China. And i must say it - this is really a great price for what is offered here.

Dean, you can criticise me if you want, but you can not persuade me not to say it "officially" : " This is the best bang for the buck from the time of introducing the water cooled spindle, so i highly recommend it" . Even if it breaks after an year, even if there is no support or no software adjustment to our desires.



Anyway, as i said in the other thread is that the controller dealt without a problem with 280MB file, 10 000 000 line file. Plus it reads it from the USB even if the more expensive offline controllers still can not do that and have limit of memory and so of the file size as Dean pointed. It can home well, then fine home second time or even 5th time. Its good soft limit to be disabled, when homing as sometimes it will cause a problem if you homing speed is set high, it will bypass sensor and soft limits will stop the homing procedure.


The only glitch i encountered was using cheap pen drive USB memory stick, every 15 min it will skip a step or 2. So use the original USB or some original USB for avoiding troubles. My advise is to use micro SD to USB adaopter, test the SD card on modern phone with 4k video, if it works, it will work on the controller also. Or buy from reputable seller.


PS. Just to clear things up. I make no profit of that controller and may be will not make any in the near future. I just like it especially for the reason that it puts to shame almost everything in the mach3+BOB+PC combo. I was negotiating buying a batch of controllers with the idea of selling them in EU. Making some cash meanwhile bringing them here in EU so no taxes was not the main reason behind this.
The main reason was that i wanted to make them more popular and by maintaining contact with manufacturer make the controller better suited to our needs and making a real well written manual. I see at least a couple of things that can and must be changed by simple re programming so the controller fits better to the needs of the community. Unfortunately at the moment i am not very tempted to continue this line as the makers of the controller are hard to reach and to deal with, the wholesale price of the controller is ridiculously near the 1 piece price and they are hiding their programmer and simply said they don't care about making it better. Until i can get a conversation with the programmer, i don't care much about that controller
Even so, as i said it's a very good controller.

John S
22-10-2016, 11:28 PM
Boyan,
Will do but be either late tomorrow or Monday as dog and house sitting and the controller is at the other place.

I just want these simple controllers to power first a couple of simple 3/4 axis desktop machines that would have gone onto Mach3 with a parallel port or USB card, - very simple.

Secondly to convert 15 older Denfords and a couple of Boxford CNC training machines onto new controllers and electronics. If I had offered PC's and Mach they would not have accepted the job.

I do also have one of the more expensive NEW990TD-b controllers which is earmarked for an Orac lathe conversion for me personally. We brought two into the country and one is already up and running on another Orac as shown in earlier video's.
The reason for this one is it's the only controller that can thread out of the box.

Forget Mach 3 and Mach 4 and CS Labs. Their controller can thread with Mach3 after a fashion but it's so slow and clunky. When asked about threading with Mach 4 they were totally non committal and said it it did get ported to Mach 4 it would probably work the same as in Mach 3. Plus it's expensive. No expense shouldn't be the be all and end all if it works but for threading it doesn't.

I know we all have different goals. Dean wants high speed, large files for 3D work on routers, Me ? I want simple 3/4 axis on desktop mills and one lathe. High speed, large files do not come in my remit so we do have different goals.

Boyan Silyavski
22-10-2016, 11:39 PM
I know we all have different goals. Dean wants high speed, large files for 3D work on routers, Me ? I want simple 3/4 axis on desktop mills and one lathe. High speed, large files do not come in my remit so we do have different goals.

My goal is also simple:

Push the button, leave the machine work and and i watch TV or read a book meanwhile. Electricity stops? Push the button and continue. No PC, no Windows, no special x32 editions so LPT works, no special LPT cables and special PCI cards, no drivers, no special Mach tricks, no strange behaviour, no hidden costs... So in a way i put reliability first of all.






Thanks for answering and helping here with information.

JAZZCNC
23-10-2016, 12:47 AM
Dean, you can criticise me if you want, but you can not persuade me not to say it "officially" : " This is the best bang for the buck from the time of introducing the water cooled spindle, so i highly recommend it" . Even if it breaks after an year, even if there is no support or no software adjustment to our desires.

Boyan rest assured I certainly would criticise you if felt the need but I don't. You are doing a good job of showing the controller.
However I do have my concerns and IMO you or anyone else known to me have not tested these for extended periods or stressed them enough to be highly recommending and calling them better than other setups.

Like John says we all all have different needs and wants.?

For instance I cannot say to my customers that this controller is the dogs danglers, however I'm not exactly sure how long it will last.? Could be hours could be years who knows.??
Oh and if the USB stick gets lost it may or maynot work with the replacement you buy. . . . Oh ye and if there any glitches in the software well I'm afraid it's tuff luck because we can't update it. Infact we have no clue to who to ask for help.!!

Thou on the good side it's cheap as chips.!! . . . Provided it doesn't break in first year. In which case I'll have to stand this anyway because the chinese warrenty is much use chocolate fireguard.

CUSTOMER: . . What about the cost of down time.? . . .Oh well I'm afraid that's the price you pay with cheap as chips controller.!

Now before you say this is hobby controller and not for professional machine you should consider that you have been comparing with and calling the high price of other controllers like CSLabs.!! . . There's reason they are Higher priced.?
They are high quality units which don't fail without good reason.
They can be repaired or replaced under warrenty.
They do have support and backup.
They have Firmware updates and we can talk to the programmers if required.

Now get this.! . . .The majority of my customers or people I help are not Professional high earning business's.
They are small cottage industry man or lass's in sheds who are hard working types of people that cannot afford to be fixing or replacing controllers 13mths after buying.
Even at this lower slower level of business Down time is problem. They cannot afford to wait 2-3wks for replacement from china then pay me to travel several hundred miles to replace. Even if I kept replacements, which I would and do even with Cslabs, there is still certain amount of down time which at best could be 1 -3 days if I'm not busy.(Ahh I wished.!!)

Even the wise Man in shed playing for fun doesn't want expense/down time and hassle that could or will at some stage I'm sure come from them.!! . . . . Which is exactly my point in that they haven't yet been tested enough for reliabilty, functionality or ruggedness. Well certainly not long enough to be called "The Best Bang for Buck" before knowing how long before the "Bang" turns into "Magic smoke".!!

Come back in 2yrs time then tell me it's worked perfectly without any glitches and I'll be impressed. But until this as happened then don't try telling me they are "Best bang for Buck".

bikepete
23-10-2016, 09:32 AM
Are these controllers CE marked? Can't see any mention of it on the listing, or a CE mark on any of the pictures.

Boyan Silyavski
23-10-2016, 12:24 PM
Are these controllers CE marked? Can't see any mention of it on the listing, or a CE mark on any of the pictures.

CE marking is a declaration of conformity only. Nothing more



CE marking
The letters CE appear on many products traded on the extended Single Market in the European Economic Area (EEA). They signify that products sold in the EEA have been assessed to meet high safety, health, and environmental protection requirements. When you buy a new phone, a teddy bear, or a TV within the EEA, you can find the CE mark on them. CE marking also supports fair competition by holding all companies accountable to the same rules.



By affixing the CE marking to a product, a manufacturer declares that the product meets all the legal requirements for CE marking and can be sold throughout the EEA. This also applies to products made in other countries that are sold in the EEA.
There are two main benefits CE marking brings to businesses and consumers within the EEA:


Businesses know that products bearing the CE marking can be traded in the EEA without restrictions.
Consumers enjoy the same level of health, safety, and environmental protection throughout the entire EEA.

CE marking is a part of the EUs harmonisation legislation, which is mainly managed by Directorate-General for Internal market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs. The CE marking for Restriction of Hazardous Substances is managed by Directorate-General for Environment (http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/environment/index_en.htm). Comprehensive guidance on the implementation of EU product rules can be found in the so-called Blue Guide (http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/).
This website provides information for manufacturers (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/manufacturers_en), importers (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/importers-distributors_en) and distributors (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/importers-distributors_en) on their responsibilities when placing a product on the EEA market. It also informs consumers (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/consumers_en) about the rights and benefits that CE marking brings them.
If youre looking for information on CE marking in your country, contact the Enterprise Europe Network (http://een.ec.europa.eu/) or check the list of contact points in the EEA (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/in-your-country_en).
How to reproduce the CE mark

/growth/file/ce-markgif_ence-mark.gif

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sites/growth/files/ce-mark.gif



Download image files:


png (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sites/growth/files/ce-mark.png)
gif (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sites/growth/files/ce.gif)
jpg (https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sites/growth/files/ce-mark.jpg)


IMPORTANT NOTE:
Not all products must have CE marking. It is compulsory only for most of the products covered by the New Approach Directives. It is forbidden to affix CE marking to other products.



Please note that a CE marking does not indicate that a product have been approved as safe by the EU or by another authority. It does not indicate the origin of a product either.

John S
23-10-2016, 01:38 PM
Also not a lawyer although most on the internet are BUT these could fall into the low voltage directive and be exempt ?

bikepete
23-10-2016, 02:42 PM
I've had some dealings with CE marking (via a completely different industry). As has been said it involves a declaration of conformity issued by the manuf or importer, but that really needs to be backed by technical documentation in case of challenge (the possibility is remote that this would occur, sure...).

For sale within China there's clearly no need for any CE marking.

But if the controller had been developed with the intention of export to EU markets, then the manufacturer would likely have designed it with that in mind (e.g. using lead free solder) and conducted the relevant tests (e.g. EMC) etc. to ensure that it will comply with the relevant EU directives.

An importer (other than for personal use) can self-certify the DoC as you say (and must also place a CE mark on the product before placing it on the market in the EU), but they should have sound grounds for stating it complies with the relevant directives, and would need evidence of this compliance if ever challenged by the authorities.

(Not an expert) but I think the controller in question falls under:

- EMC Directive (electromagnetic interference)

- RoHS (covers things like lead in solder)

Just possibly the Machinery Directive if it controls safety logic e.g. e-stops.

Also presumably the General Product Safety Directive if selling to end users. Not sure if that applies to B2B sales.

I don't think it's affected by the Low Voltage Directive as despite the name that's for 50V AC or 75V DC upwards.

For enthusiast importers supplying it for DIY shed use all this may not matter much, given it's a pretty low risk sort of item all in all.

But if these were to be imported commercially by e.g. one of the main model engineering suppliers, they'd probably want to make sure it was all above board. And if the manufacturer can't provide the necessary evidence/assurances, that could prevent such suppliers taking it on. Which might keep sales numbers down and reduce the manufacturer's incentive to improve it...

Re the larger 400ish jobbies - not looked too hard but didn't see anything on the web pages saying they are CE-ready & EMC/RoHS compliant either.

None of this will stop me getting one (140 job initially) when my machine eventually gets finished enough to be ready for it - am just waiting until the last possible moment before ordering to ensure I get the latest version.

Cheers

Pete

John S
23-10-2016, 02:49 PM
Dean is correct up to a point in that these controllers are still a work in progress and until they have some time under their belt there will be a question mark over them.
This is the DDSCV controller I am talking about.
This doesn't apply to the higher end one as GSK has been making these for about 8 odd years and they power the majority of Chinese CNC's used in China to product what we buy in the west and as such are proven.

Now to muddy the waters further and this is the cheaper DSCV controller.
Modern electronics are quite good these days. Take the average DRO reader. I have had DRO's for well over 20 years, had the odd scale go down mainly due to crap and age but NEVER had a read head go down and how many out there. ?

They are powered by an ARM processor which is what is in the majority of mobile phones which have been made in the billions. In fact Intel and AMD have announced that this last batch of processors for PC's and laptops will be the last batch as both are moving over onto ARM processors as better and more powerful.

From someone far more knowledgeable than me who has been inside one they are running Debian as an operating system so basically it Linux at the core of this and being open sourced means it can be hacked or modified.
Whilst playing around with this Joules managed to wipe the operating system but as he'd backed the files up previously he was able to restore the OS. So that isn't the problem that Dean feels it is.

As regards reliability I feel that isn't the problem that Dean feels it is. I am in exactly the same boat in the mill conversions I do but so far all my problems have been computer related, a few mach related but by far the most problems have been with third party controllers and breakout boards etc.

Two trips to Hull to replace two blown up System 3 boards on separate occasions plus two drivers that took took out.
Two trips to Darlington to replace Spindle 3 boards that didn't work right.
One trip to Bristol for another breakout board problem and other trips for roughly the same problems.

TBH I got real fed up of acting as unpaid R&D for certain manufacturers especially when they didn't listen to what the problem was and just ran out the same old "well we have sold 100's and you are the first person " etc, etc, yada, yada.

Like most projects out of those 100, 90 are still on the bench as a work in progress. You test a job, cut sample parts etc, send it out and it doesn't work because one model HP computer cannot generate the charge pump signal.

OK Deans customers are mom and pop operations and can't afford the downtime which I except but in a case such as this when I spec a job out, knowing that drivers are always the weak link once a system is up and working I cost a spare driver into the job and send it out with the job. It's all about piece of mind.

In a case like this and when the Oxford jobs comes off then i will have costed a spare controller into the sum. At the most it's 15 to 20 wires to swap over. Even though about fitting them on plug in headers but 15 v 1 isn't good odds so they are skilled enough to swap one over inside 1/2 hour, no having to send spares or run 200 - 300 miles.

I will have less components into the mix that at the moment when I'm shipping Mach3 with a computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, breakout board and possibly an external controller.

Will it change overnight ? no it won't but change will come. I am good friends with Art Fenerty who wrote Mach 3, we talk for about an hour every couple of weeks on the phone. I have immense respect for Art and what he can do.

Only last week he said that a problem had come up where W10 couldn't read one of the ocx files required by Mach3 as it was old technology and his concern was that up to W10 would be the end for Mach 3.

Now we all know that older computers will be around for years but it proves that change will have to come about or more problems will surface as all computers are different.

Dean has his concerns and is right to have them whilst he's supplying a service but not everyone can afford Deans services and anything that can simplify setting up the controller side of a CNC will help the hobby.

For me on 3 / 4 axis mill I'm happy to take the chance, not a big outlay, in fact over a PC it's a saving on equipment and licenses and I can always go back if necessary.

On lathe then for me only the NEW / GSK type 400 controller will work as no one has yet to show me anything that can thread correctly with the minimum of setting up and not having to rely on at least two vendors of hardware / software who most of the time don't talk to one another.

John S
23-10-2016, 02:58 PM
Pete, Very grey area but controllers fall into the exempt area for lead free as they are controlling critical equipment unlike say a washing machine or radio.

However I know what you are saying.

Having had dealing with a few UK main model engineering suppliers I can't see any wanting to carry these units.
For one the sale would be very low and for every sale make in the UK 3 would buy direct from China to escape the markup, taxes and VAT etc so there would be no reason to even look for a supplier in China.

Both Zapp and Arceurotade have stopped selling ball screws as everyone is going direct and it won't end there.
Arc is to stop selling drivers and steppers when the current stock has run out for the same reason.

Boyan Silyavski
23-10-2016, 04:47 PM
Having had dealing with a few UK main model engineering suppliers I can't see any wanting to carry these units.
For one the sale would be very low and for every sale make in the UK 3 would buy direct from China to escape the markup, taxes and VAT etc so there would be no reason to even look for a supplier in China.



Exactly my findings, though i stubbornly looked for the supplier. But as i said i looked with the idea to make them change this and that so it fits better to our needs. For the price they wholesale it, it has to be sold sth like 250 euro to be worth the effort. Even so it will be a great deal. But with the said changes and updated manuals, plus direct contact with the programmer so if bugs found to be immediately removed and software updated.

The way it is now, its better bought directly from China for 160 euros shipping included.

JAZZCNC
27-10-2016, 09:11 PM
Ok got one of these on it's way I'll torcher it to death then jump in with my two penny's worth.!!!

Gary
28-10-2016, 07:33 AM
We have not stopped selling ballscrews, but we are discontinuing the C7 range and this is not because we cant compete, its more to do with stocking both C7 and C5 is a logistical nightmare and requires a lot of stock holding.
There is big difference in the ballscrews we offer and what you find on the Chinese market, all of the dirt cheap Chinese ball screws are the rejects from TBI or other manufactures (Not meeting C7 lead accuracy, non complaint root diameter and a number of other issues) and are dumped onto the chinese market at near scrap value. We stopped selling the Chinese ballscrews and nuts due to these problems.

The ballnuts are made in china and that is why they fit them to the screws and if you need a new nut two years later, good luck, because you may need to reball it to fit correctly.

Regarding importing and selling the low cost controllers, i have absolutely no intention, till they are CE, have real documentation and some form of technical support.
Also what is important is that there is some money to be made from selling them and at the moment, we would only be able to sell them at a loss.
Adding them on a machine is another matter though.




Pete, Very grey area but controllers fall into the exempt area for lead free as they are controlling critical equipment unlike say a washing machine or radio.

However I know what you are saying.

Having had dealing with a few UK main model engineering suppliers I can't see any wanting to carry these units.
For one the sale would be very low and for every sale make in the UK 3 would buy direct from China to escape the markup, taxes and VAT etc so there would be no reason to even look for a supplier in China.

Both Zapp and Arceurotade have stopped selling ball screws as everyone is going direct and it won't end there.
Arc is to stop selling drivers and steppers when the current stock has run out for the same reason.

Boyan Silyavski
31-10-2016, 02:46 PM
Real life scenario today. Electricity stopped for a sec today, something with the fuse box or whatever. Flipped back the main interrupter at home, went to machine, hit "all go to 0" and after 3 min it was operational. It had not lost exact machine position .I had just to check if Z height is there correctly to be sure, as i have loaded 60 euro tool, All was there as it should be on place.

Went back to my PC to brag here about that. Mehh. 15 days in a raw , windows 10 attempts and fails to install updates. Read in internet, fixed registry, attempted manual update, fixed once, repeats with next updates without being able to fix. So in fact had to wait 10 min to update and 15 min to repair itself from inability to update. So half an hour later was operational. And have in mind that it does that twice a day and does not let me postpone or disable automatic update.On my pc. The one who invented that feature is N1 in my bad person list

Meanwhile machine was working at least half an hour doing steadily its job. For that time it made 6 parts . You tell me now what are you conclusions. I am not trying to convince anybody here.




Some people ask me on Youtube about macros. I dont know anything but lets see what the controller has in its memory. There is a file called "probe"

here is what "probe" is made of:


G04P0;ͣ0sΪȷȡǰеλM5 ;ر
(ȡǰ߻еλ)
#20=#864
#21=#865
#22=#866
IF#571EQ0GOTO1;бϵͳù̶λöԵģʽǵ λöԵģʽ
(̶Եģʽ£XYZĽ)
#1=#572-#20
#2=#573-#21
#3=#574-#22
GOTO2
(ǰԵģʽ£XYZ)
N1#1=0
#2=0
#3=0
(ƶԵʼλ)
N2G91G00Z#3
G91G00X#1Y#2
(100ٶ̽100mmԵź)
N1M101
G91G01Z-100F100
M102
G04P0;ͣ0s
#402=#400;ϵZƫ
#403=1;Զϵ־
#404=-#870;Եȣ֮ǰԵȲΪ0ϵ ͳøñԵȲɵһζԵ
G91G01Z#575F#578;ԵɣZ


I think that is Chinese, thats why the strange characters. So obviously things could be done



Also there is a file called "eng" which contains the specific machine settings, which could be altered on PC, loaded to say 100 controllers, if you a fitting it on a same machine. Which is great, so you don't have to program by clicking 100 controllers


inside its something like that:


&&#5 -t1 -s1"minimum log radius of 4axis machining" -s2"mm" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=999.999
#6 -t2 -s1"A axis rotate reference axis" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=3.000 -i0"X axis" -i1"Y axis" -i2"Z axis" -i3"not rotate"


#104 -t2 -s1"A axis optimal path when G0 run" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"No" -i1"Yes"


#34 -t1 -s1"X axis pulse equivalency" -s2"pulse/mm" -m2 -min=50.000 -max=99999.000
#35 -t1 -s1"Y axis pulse equivalency" -s2"pulse/mm" -m2 -min=50.000 -max=99999.000
#36 -t1 -s1"Z axis pulse equivalency" -s2"pulse/mm" -m2 -min=50.000 -max=99999.000
#37 -m0
#38=1280 -t1 -s1"A axis pulse equivalency" -s2"" -m0 -min=50.000 -max=999999.000
#39=0 -t2 -s1"A axis pulse unit" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"pulse/deg" -i1"pulse/circle"
#40=0 -t2 -s1"AB axis Selection" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"A axis" -i1"B axis"


#390 -t2 -s1"X axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#391 -t2 -s1"Y axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#392 -t2 -s1"Z axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#393 -t2 -s1"A axis DIR signal Electric Level" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"


#418 -t2 -s1"X axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#419 -t2 -s1"Y axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#420 -t2 -s1"Z axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m2 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"
#421 -t2 -s1"A axis Pulse signal Electric Level" -m0 -min=0.000 -max=1.000 -i0"Low" -i1"High"

magicniner
31-10-2016, 06:58 PM
My CNC PC is W7, you'd need your bumps felt to think W10 is a good idea, I'd use Windows 10 if my intention was to develop an unreliable system to prove a negative, ditto unproven external controllers :-)
My CNC System mains supply is via a huge UPS, I bought it with no batteries for 40 and it now runs off a couple of external car batteries ;-)
I haven't had a job stop unexpectedly for 6 to 8 months, the last issue was a broken limit switch wire :D

I believe these boxes offer the huge advantages of not needing a PC/OS/CNC Software, new users will be able to buy one, connect it and simply use it - that's great! It will enable the "Maker Generation" without requiring them to read around the subject and understand their system before they use it.

Reliability improvements will be realised by the unwise and unwary who don't already follow best practice with existing PC/OS/CNC Software/Hardware solutions, all the required information is in the manuals and on the support forum sites, just waiting to be read,

- Nick

Boyan Silyavski
31-10-2016, 07:40 PM
My CNC computer is win7 32bit. I was talking about my main PC.

I had before 2x 1500W HP UPS, one here at home, other in the garage. Well, i payed extra 30-35 euro per month on top of my bill . Sold them for good price / new one was 500euro/ and 2 years without UPS. 24 months x 30 euro =700 euro less money wasted last 2 years.


As i said i am proving nothing Nick, just telling you the story as it is. I live in year 2016, so i have win10 on all my PCs including the laptops, my phone is Edge7 and if i had the money i would have been driving Tesla. What i am saying is i like latest stuff. That's one of the reasons i hated Mach3. It made me keep that nasty winXP.

JAZZCNC
31-10-2016, 07:41 PM
Real life scenario today. Electricity stopped for a sec today, something with the fuse box or whatever. Flipped back the main interrupter at home, went to machine, hit "all go to 0" and after 3 min it was operational. It had not lost exact machine position .I had just to check if Z height is there correctly to be sure, as i have loaded 60 euro tool, All was there as it should be on place.

Boyan don't get me wrong here I'm not trying to put you or the controller down here but this needs to be said and made clear for sake of others reading what you wrote and thinking it will work same for them when chances are it won't and here's why.?

What speed was the machine traveling when power failed.? The law of physics dictates that inertia will make the axis continue on for some unknown distance if travleing at resonable velocity. So unless you have absolute encoders or Glass linear scales on the axis you will have lost position.

Now in your case you have Servo's which more than likely will have incremental encoders which don't retain there position when power is lost so they have not had any affect on keeping position. These controllers Also don't have positional feed back so equally it has no Clue to where the axis was when power failed.

So the fact you got back into position as nothing to do with the controller and everything to do with the fact your using servos which can accurately home. Probably using the encoder if using index pulse for homing.?
Steppers or Servo if traveling at any resonable feedrate position will be lost if poiwer fails. The function of getting back into Exact position as nothing to do with controller and everything thing to do with the HOME sensing type, be that encoder index or Home Switch.

This is no different to any other Controller be that PC based or Stand alone. The only exception is if your Encoders are absolute type or have Glass linear scales in which case the Servo drives are doing the work not the controller.

John S
31-10-2016, 07:50 PM
I must get some of these encoders as I get lost on the way back from the crapper ?

magicniner
31-10-2016, 08:21 PM
My CNC computer is win7 32bit. I was talking about my main PC.

I had before 2x 1500W HP UPS, one here at home, other in the garage. Well, i payed extra 30-35 euro per month on top of my bill

My home UPS is in my hallway so the "waste energy" will only be wasted when the weather is warm enough to require no heating in the house, my workshop UPS will be similarly helping to keep the chill off.
I only worry about quiescent and standby energy usage once the area where the appliances reside is warm enough not to require heating ;-)

- Nick

JAZZCNC
31-10-2016, 08:30 PM
I must get some of these encoders as I get lost on the way back from the crapper ?

Well when you find your way back go from crapper check your emails I need your expertise.!

Boyan Silyavski
31-10-2016, 09:53 PM
Boyan don't get me wrong here I'm not trying to put you or the controller down here but this needs to be said and made clear for sake of others reading what you wrote and thinking it will work same for them when chances are it won't and here's why.?

What speed was the machine traveling when power failed.? The law of physics dictates that inertia will make the axis continue on for some unknown distance if traveling at reasonable velocity. So unless you have absolute encoders or Glass linear scales on the axis you will have lost position.

Now in your case you have Servo's which more than likely will have incremental encoders which don't retain there position when power is lost so they have not had any affect on keeping position. These controllers Also don't have positional feed back so equally it has no Clue to where the axis was when power failed.

So the fact you got back into position as nothing to do with the controller and everything to do with the fact your using servos which can accurately home. Probably using the encoder if using index pulse for homing.?
Steppers or Servo if traveling at any reasonable feedrate position will be lost if power fails. The function of getting back into Exact position as nothing to do with controller and everything thing to do with the HOME sensing type, be that encoder index or Home Switch.

This is no different to any other Controller be that PC based or Stand alone. The only exception is if your Encoders are absolute type or have Glass linear scales in which case the Servo drives are doing the work not the controller.


Dean, you are untiring my friend in your criticism, the way i am in my optimism. Ok,as you say- for the sake of others reading that:

1. First of all if electricity stops mach3 goes to nowhere and when you restart it you see a couple of rows of Zeros, hence the machine does not know where it is initially. Not so with the offline controller. It knows exactly where it is, even if its a though further as you say because of inertia, though i measured exactly the difference and it was 0.1mm on Z, on my machine only the Z is prone to inertia, all else locks into place when stopped suddenly, of course not if i am moving at 20 000mm/min

2. My experience shows that proximity limit switches/ Chinese at least/ have an error of approximately 0.4mm or i could call that hysteresis / imagine a backslash/ even if you home repeatedly again and again. Always first time off 0.4mm. Then right correctly. I tested aluminum, brass and steel. First i thought / on yellow machine/ that my error was a design error, cause not sensing perpendicular to them. Now on this machine sensors are NC, perpendicular steel/ best material for sensing/ as far as i remember when reading documentation
What i am saying is that even if you home in mach3, if you are machining steel or aluminum,not wood you would be way off 0.1-0.4, so let's not brag about continuing the job correctly, cause i have been there, done that with aluminum and its not ok. In short, if power stops in a middle of metal job you are f%%d up and can not depend on home switches but instead of that have to use Zero Z axis DTI setter or touch probe.So its absolutely useless speaking how PC will recover from power failure.

3. Show me a PC controller that does not lose position due to delay between the time you hit reset/ pause and the time the command is executed by the machine. Not so with offline controllers. Its i could call it- an exact stop controller.


So in short: PC or Offline controller it will go out of position by small negligible amount which in both cases must be corrected if milling steel or aluminum. If working wood the offline controller has the edge, as you just hit continue and that's it. The PC controller needs to home, find X, Z zero additionally due to proximity limit switch error which is not so negligible at ~.4mm. Plus maybe you need to fix Windows because of the sudden loss of power and in most of the cases you need to fix Mach3 by checking if the screen works correctly or you need in most of the cases to reinstall it again to make sure all is as it must be. As i had many problems after sudden stop of power. That's why i say it again i love the offline controller.

I wonder, can't you just see it- its cheaper and simpler. More reliable and easier to exchange in case of fault. I wonder when you Dean as a maker of CNC machines will accept the fact that the controller responds better to your KISS principle.

magicniner
31-10-2016, 10:37 PM
More reliable and easier to exchange in case of fault.

Reliability is to be determined by what it's doing in 2-3 years time, stability is probably what it's demonstrating at the moment.

So far I've had 3 years out of my current CNC PC, to replace it will cost me around 40 and the time to image a drive, in fact that's so cheap that I keep a spare on the shelf.

I'm looking at an open source virtualisation platform and external ethernet connected motion controllers for the future.

- Nick

John S
31-10-2016, 11:51 PM
Horses for courses.

I have two small 'CNC' machines here that diamond drag engrave.
One is converted from a 20 Roland throw out from a school but it works and earns money.
The other is a custom made 'machine' with travels of 100mm in X by 30mm in Z and an A axis. It's also a drag engraver.

Both machines are in production, The Roland does 4 different jobs, the rotary machine does 7.

In both cases the computer and monitor needed is twice as big as the machines. In fact both machines are in drawers as there is no need to take up valuable worktop space and I just pull a drawer open, swap the job, press start and close the drawer.

The Roland is slated to have the cheap plastic blue and green 115 nasty controller and the rotary is slated to have a DSCV1.1 both to be mounted inside the drawer with the machines.

That gets rid of two computers, two monitors, two keyboards and two mice plus all the rats nest of cables.

magicniner
01-11-2016, 09:41 AM
I can see the convenience of integrated compact controllers, I'd buy one today if I knew I wouldn't have to replace it for a few years but if my CNC dies it stops me doing things which I need to do, and I can't wait for global postage for a replacement and certainly don't want to buy "a spare" of something which may not be reliable enough; Just in case the first one isn't reliable enough ;-)

If I was building or converting CNC machines and planned to have a stream of these type of things moving through stock the picture would be different, I'd be doing it now, but as an "Olde Fashioned" Mach3 system currently runs a 4-axis system faultlessly for me I'm not seeing any drive to change to something that isn't proven at least as reliable and durable.


- Nick

m_c
01-11-2016, 04:16 PM
2. My experience shows that proximity limit switches/ Chinese at least/ have an error of approximately 0.4mm or i could call that hysteresis / imagine a backslash/ even if you home repeatedly again and again. Always first time off 0.4mm. Then right correctly. I tested aluminum, brass and steel. First i thought / on yellow machine/ that my error was a design error, cause not sensing perpendicular to them. Now on this machine sensors are NC, perpendicular steel/ best material for sensing/ as far as i remember when reading documentation
What i am saying is that even if you home in mach3, if you are machining steel or aluminum,not wood you would be way off 0.1-0.4, so let's not brag about continuing the job correctly, cause i have been there, done that with aluminum and its not ok. In short, if power stops in a middle of metal job you are f%%d up and can not depend on home switches but instead of that have to use Zero Z axis DTI setter or touch probe.So its absolutely useless speaking how PC will recover from power failure.


Simple solution there, buy better switches for homing.
A machine is only as good as it's weakest link, and if you need accurate homing, then you shouldn't cut corners on homing switches/sensors.
.
IIRC on my old lathe, the slot sensor was about 30, and it had no measurable hysteresis. It would home to within 0.01mm every time, regardless of temperature. I know you had to make sure it was kept clean and a bit swarf hadn't landed in the slot, but it guaranteed accurate homing every time.
I would expect better than 0.1mm from a good quality mechanical switch, and I see no advantage using proximity sensors, given how variable they can be.

Ger21
01-11-2016, 06:07 PM
on my machine only the Z is prone to inertia, all else locks into place when stopped suddenly, of course not if i am moving at 20 000mm/min

So, your X and Y axis operate independently of the laws of physics? That makes everything a lot easier. :)

Dean is 100% correct. If the power goes out, the machine loses position.


I wonder, can't you just see it- its cheaper and simpler. More reliable and easier to exchange in case of fault. I wonder when you Dean as a maker of CNC machines will accept the fact that the controller responds better to your KISS principle.

How is it more reliable? My Mach3 machine has been running for about 8 years, with zero reliability issues. I turn it on, and make parts, whenever I want. It always works.

JAZZCNC
01-11-2016, 08:51 PM
Dean, you are untiring my friend in your criticism, the way i am in my optimism. Ok,as you say- for the sake of others reading that:

Only when I see Crap being spoken like whats below.!!


1. First of all if electricity stops mach3 goes to nowhere and when you restart it you see a couple of rows of Zeros, hence the machine does not know where it is initially. Not so with the offline controller. It knows exactly where it is, even if its a though further as you say because of inertia,

You are talking total Bollocks if you think your machine and this controller defy the laws of pyhsics..:thumbdown:


2. My experience shows that proximity limit switches/ Chinese at least/ have an error of approximately 0.4mm or i could call that hysteresis / imagine a backslash/ even if you home repeatedly again and again. Always first time off 0.4mm.

Well my findings are some what different.!! . . .Thou I will admit I would use higher quality type on Milling machine which required very high repeatabilty. For wood router they are more than good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A11Zvi3nAFE



What i am saying is that even if you home in mach3, if you are machining steel or aluminum,not wood you would be way off 0.1-0.4, so let's not brag about continuing the job correctly, cause i have been there, done that with aluminum and its not ok. In short, if power stops in a middle of metal job you are f%%d up and can not depend on home switches but instead of that have to use Zero Z axis DTI setter or touch probe.So its absolutely useless speaking how PC will recover from power failure.

3. Show me a PC controller that does not lose position due to delay between the time you hit reset/ pause and the time the command is executed by the machine. Not so with offline controllers. Its i could call it- an exact stop controller.
[B]

Again your talking load of Crap.!! . . . The Controller only knows the last position it commanded and CANNOT possibly now where the axis actually came to rest.

Know to answer your " Show me PC Controller that does not lose position" then that is easy. There are several Cslabs IP-A, Dynamotion Kanalog and several other that can handle Analog or have Encoder feedback.!!! . . . PROVIDED and this why your talking total bollocks. They have servos with Absolute Encoders or Glass linear scales to feed the TRUE position back.

This controller DOESNT have any feedback which means it's NO DIFFERENT TO ANY OTHER CONTROL SOFTWARE be that PC or OFFLINE. . . .Or is yours Special and uses the !!!FORCE.!!!






I wonder, can't you just see it- its cheaper and simpler. More reliable and easier to exchange in case of fault. I wonder when you Dean as a maker of CNC machines will accept the fact that the controller responds better to your KISS principle.

I see it perfectly clearly, I was looking at these and other more expensive ones long before you found them Boyan.
Two yrs ago I realised PC based controllers are falling behind and OS getting more and more restrictive. After doing lots of researching and looking I also realsied that there is NO Cheap way to do this and have controller which is Reliable with Continuity and good back up.
There are Many OFFLINE controllers which have reliabilty and backup and also found in EU but they are not cheap and for good reason like any other quality product.

The Cheap Chinese controllers are Untested and Lack ANY backup or support which doesn't appeal to me and wouldn't to many of my Customers.

So if you think I'm Picking on this Controller and saying it's No Good then I'm NOT.!! . . Because I haven't tested one so couldn't and wouldn't say this!!

BUT If think I'm having a POP at you then YES in this CASE I am picking on YOU for talking CRAP and Miss leading people by claiming it does things it CANNOT POSSIBLY DO.!! . . . . IT CANNOT DEFY THE LAWS OF PYHSICS.!! and to suggest otherwise is Massive stupidity.

Now Crack on with your cutting before the lights go out again.!:encouragement:

John S
01-11-2016, 09:42 PM
At least he's not having to use crappy US 110v.
I'm sure that Capricorn One is real, because if they can't get three wires across America then how did they get to the moon ? ?

JAZZCNC
01-11-2016, 10:23 PM
If I was building or converting CNC machines and planned to have a stream of these type of things moving through stock the picture would be different, I'd be doing it now,

But you wouldn't Nick and let me tell you why.?

At the weekend I delivered machine to Kent. This was 500mile round trip with 4.5hr's each way none stop driving. If I had to go back that would be 9hrs unpaid driving Plus another 1hr unpaid repair time. Then throw in 80 of diesil and the fact Customer is so pissed off don't even get offered Cuppa Tea and this wonderful controller starts to lose it's shine quickly.! . . . . . Oh and just to sweeten the deal I can't Even send it back for repair or replacement.

Like most things in life there's more to it than seems.!!!

John S
01-11-2016, 11:27 PM
That's very true Jazz but you and me are in it for different reasons.
The punter who doing his own machine and is prepared to take a chance doesn't have these expenses.


I have now got the go-ahead to do 15 machines down at Oxford in one lot. They are putting me up at the University dorms for 3 or 4 days, free grub and I shall leave them one spare unit which if one goes pear shaped they will swap over.

To be honest without these I would not have got the job as they don't want PC's and Monitors and the 990 series are too expensive for old training machines.

Good thing is it puts a load into use to soak test in one batch.

JAZZCNC
02-11-2016, 12:04 AM
That's very true Jazz but you and me are in it for different reasons.
The punter who doing his own machine and is prepared to take a chance doesn't have these expenses.

100% Agree John and like been said horse for courses. People I deal with come to me because they are not technical and just want the machine to work then keep working.
They'd rather pay little extra for the luxury of not having break downs and to be honest I'd rather make little less money than have to go back to fix. Also and More importantly to me I don't have unhappy users.

Like I've repeatedly said and contrary to what Boyan probably thinks I'm not calling these controllers rubbish or unfit for purpose. Neither am I saying to anyone don't buy one.
What I am saying is be fully aware of what your buying into and in this last little head butt session with Boyan stop Bull shitting people with false claims which cannot be true.

I'll have one soon and then the like we say in MotoX "When the Gate drops the Bullshit stops" so lets see what happens. .:yahoo:

A_Camera
02-11-2016, 12:34 PM
My CNC computer is win7 32bit. I was talking about my main PC.

I had before 2x 1500W HP UPS, one here at home, other in the garage. Well, i payed extra 30-35 euro per month on top of my bill . Sold them for good price / new one was 500euro/ and 2 years without UPS. 24 months x 30 euro =700 euro less money wasted last 2 years.


As i said i am proving nothing Nick, just telling you the story as it is. I live in year 2016, so i have win10 on all my PCs including the laptops, my phone is Edge7 and if i had the money i would have been driving Tesla. What i am saying is i like latest stuff. That's one of the reasons i hated Mach3. It made me keep that nasty winXP.No, Mach3 does not force you to keep the old WinXP, using UCCNC controllers you can actually run it on both W7 64 and also W10 64. I gave up on XP a long time ago and with W7 I always used 64 bits versions. Now I am using W10 and UC300ETH with Mach3, as well as with UCCNC.

Re. the UPS, why would you need to pay 30-35 per month for it? Mine is a one time cost when I am buying and when I need to replace the battery. Otherwise it is just the charging, but that is certainly not that expensive.

BTW, charging a Tesla takes too long time... Not yet suitable for holiday trips (demands strict and careful planning and short trips or long "petrol station" stops) and is a bit too expensive for work commuting.

JAZZCNC
04-11-2016, 11:16 PM
Ok my 4 axis controller V2.1 as arrived and straight off the bat just reading manual I can see limitation. The 4th axis can only be set to Pulse/Degree not Pulse/MM so limited to 3 axis Linear movement.

Also I'm struggling to see anyway settings or references to how it can change tools.! There are Tool offset parameters so I'm summising there must be way but it's not obvious.
Even got into the setup files and translated the Chinese. I can just about workout what the files are doing but can't see anything relating to changing tools so I'm little concerned it can't do it.!! . . . Well not in the conventional sense ie: M6 macro. Without full list of controller internal parameters can't see if one could be assigned to the job.?

Oh and can't believe how small this thing is it's Tiny.!!

Boyan Silyavski
04-11-2016, 11:52 PM
This below works for changing tools / generated by ESTLCAM/, cant remember if it stopped the spindle?



(No. 2: Part 1)
M05
M00 (Change tool: End mill 6mm 2 flute)
M03
G00 X-26.2834 Y7.9139 Z5.0000
G00 X-25.5448 Y7.7836 Z0.5250
G01 X-25.6339 Y7.5389 Z0.5000 F1200 S18000
G01 X-25.7089 Y7.4318 Z0.4750
G01 X-25.8013 Y7.3393 Z0.4433
G01 X-25.9084 Y7.2644 Z0.4000



Unfortunately it seems its unaware of the M06 command. Bellow the code is generated from Aspire / G code ATC/ . What it does is Stop but does not stop spindle. I stop it manually, Zero new tool and switch spindle on/ not sure if necessary/ and continue.


X-22.665Y0.653
X-22.656Y0.325
X-22.653Y0.000
G0Z5.000
M0
M06T2
G43H2
S16000M03
G0X-26.500Y-25.000Z5.000
G1Z-1.000F762.0
G1Y25.000F1524.0
X-26.497Y25.098
X-26.487Y25.197
X-26.470Y25.298
X-26.446Y25.400
X-26.414Y25.502




If you can not find a way to switch that A axis to pulse per mm, then that must be the reality then. Not slaving. 2 motors per axis hardware wired, the way you don't like it. As it works it's not a problem for me.


Anyway, that's one of the reasons i gave up with this board. Can not find the programmer to do what i want and fix stuff like this? Then sell you board 1 by 1 from China. I am not interested in more than using it.




But FIY the macros and other stuff is defined in the slib file / nand folder. Unfortunately in Chinese and unfortunately it does not show like Chinese but rfunny greek characters, so i was not able to translate it.


part from that file:



(G12 I)
O9012
G91 G01 X#494
G02 X0 I-#494
G01 X-#494
M99


(G13 I)
O9013
G91 G01 X#494
G03 X0 I-#494
G01 X-#494
M99


(G81 X Y Z R K)
O9081
(#1-#3¼ָʼʱ߹)
#1=#451
#2=#452
#3=#453
IF #450LT0 GOTO1;бģʽ귽ʽ
(RƽZ#4Ϳ׵Z#5ԼXY* #6,#7)
#4=#497
#5=#490
#6=#488-#1
#7=#489-#2
GOTO2
N1 #4=#3+#497
#5=#3+#490
#6=#488
#7=#489
(ݹ̶*˵ָԼ#3#4λùϵ˵ Z#8)
N2 IF [#449LT0]*[#4LT#3] GOTO3
#8=#4
GOTO4
N3 #8=#3
(#11¼*K)
N4 #11=#496
IF #11>0 GOTO6
#11=1
(ZٽR)
N6 IF #4LT#3 GOTO5
G90G00Z#4
(*)
N5 WHILE#11>0DO13
G91G00X#6Y#7;XYٽλ
G90G00Z#4;ZٽR
G90G01Z#5;Zٶ׵λ
G90G00Z#4;Z̧Rλ
#11=#11-1;*ݼ
END13
G90G00Z#8;Z̧#8λ
M99


(G82 X Y Z R K P)
O9082
#9=#484
IF #9>0 GOTO6
#9=1
(#1-#3¼ָʼʱ߹)
N6#1=#451
#2=#452
#3=#453
IF #450LT0 GOTO1;бģʽ귽ʽ
(RƽZ#4Ϳ׵Z#5ԼXY* #6,#7)
#4=#497
#5=#490

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 12:31 AM
This below works for changing tools / generated by ESTLCAM/, cant remember if it stopped the spindle?



(No. 2: Part 1)
M05
M00 (Change tool: End mill 6mm 2 flute)
M03


Not really tool change that it's just stopping the code. There must be way to do this correctly thru macros and/or controller parameters so can call offsets etc without having to mess around writing Cam post processors just for this controller. If not then it's Doomed to the box under bench straight away.!!

I've been thru all the files and translated them and can't see any param's or Code relating to tool changing. Here's the files translated.

Boyan Silyavski
05-11-2016, 08:00 AM
The way a macro for probe is written, same should be done for a tool change. Nobody has done it. I don't know if it can be cross figured what all the numbers mean, without any additional documentation.




Apart from that I have from manufacturer latest install with what i believe to be the latest firmware separately. Now i need somebody who knows FPGA and ARM, maybe programming also.



As i said manual tool change works without a problem. But real tool change? I believe its possible but not without rewriting some portions of controllers software. ATC-could be done by triggering one of the outputs and then separate PLC programmed to do the job.




If they were not so secretive who they are, i would have already made them to correct these things.

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 10:34 AM
The way a macro for probe is written, same should be done for a tool change. Nobody has done it. I don't know if it can be cross figured what all the numbers mean, without any additional documentation.

Those numbers are parameter variables/constants and It would be relatively easy if they provided the full parameter list for the controller.
However it looks like doesn't recognise the M6 command which is commonly used for toolchange so would need dedicated post processor writing this controller.

Regards the ATC and PLC well why not go one further and just do away with this controller and use PLC Motion Controller.? It defeats the point and no longer cheap controller.
Also still need some way to call and wait for the PLC to do it's work then return to main. M6 would still be used for this. The PLC just handles all the I/O and timing critical stuff but still at some point needs stop hand back to G-code so it's not simple just turning On an Output Boyan.!

If these controllers are to be usable they need to follow standards correctly and they clearly don't. States it follows Fanuc standard so why doesn't M6 work.?
Should not have to be writing dedicated Post processor's if it follows Fanuc.?

I'll dig deep and see what turns up but to be fair I'm not getting that nice warm fuzzy feeling I like with new hardware.!!!

Regards the 4th axis then Yes no option to select pulse/mm only pulse/degree or pulse/circle what ever that means.?
And I'd rather stick my Johnson in the mains socket before run machine with two signals sticking into one Motor Output.!! . . . . . Just because it appears to be working doesn't mean it's working correctly.!

Taking this to ridiculous extreams using your method would suggest I could run several identical machines, say 6 machines with just one 3 axis controller each pulling signal from same Motor Output.!! . . . . . Wonder why industry haven't figured this out yet.?

AndyGuid
05-11-2016, 11:40 AM
To my limited understanding and very over-full grey matter, the actual running of G-Code for cutting using DIY CNC often involves all of the following with the potential for incompatibilities and failure-points:

• PC,
• Windows/Linux,
• Mach3,
• Cabling whether Ethernet or EPP or USB,
• Bob,
• External Motion Controller


Just the thought of being able to simplify and replace all this with an offline motion controller and a USB stick is extremely appealing to this novice. So I'm following all the discussion on this thread with massive interest, many thanks to all of you from down under!

johnsattuk
05-11-2016, 02:18 PM
And I'd rather stick my Johnson in the mains socket before run machine with two signals sticking into one Motor Output.!! . . . . . Just because it appears to be working doesn't mean it's working correctly.!

Taking this to ridiculous extreams using your method would suggest I could run several identical machines, say 6 machines with just one 3 axis controller each pulling signal from same Motor Output.!! . . . . . Wonder why industry haven't figured this out yet.?

IMO I don't see a problem driving two or more motors from one output, providing the output is capable of providing the milliamps required, I have done this several times without any problems. Most drivers have opto inputs and are isolated from each other, have even used two driver inputs in series on occasion. Since these controllers are digital, they process things sequentially so two seperate outputs are likely to be seperated in time (admittedly very short) which is not the case with using a common output for two motors.

I see videos of multiple headed machines carving many identical models simultaneously, it would not surprise me if they were driven from common outputs.

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 03:27 PM
IMO I don't see a problem driving two or more motors from one output, providing the output is capable of providing the milliamps required, I have done this several times without any problems.

Did you ever bother to put scope on them and check the timings.? Most that are using the setup just presume it's working correctly because cycle times are relatively short and they don't see any obvious error but that doesn't mean it's not there. Try this with large 3D job that runs for 20+hrs and these tiny timing errors start to show.


I see videos of multiple headed machines carving many identical models simultaneously, it would not surprise me if they were driven from common outputs.

Most of these don't have independent heads they are just one large Z axis and often numatics come into play as well. Those that do will have dedicated outputs, or at least those I've seen have had.
I look after large Italian stone profiling/polishing machine used for counter tops which has 8 heads. 4 each side running on there own dedicated outputs. Each running on servos with Bespoke controller with built in PLC for controlling 86 I/O used for numatic claps etc.

While it can do different job each side mostly it Basicly just mirrors the other and would be perfect candicate for the sharing approach but they don't.! . . . . Sure if sharing outputs didn't have any affect they would take this approach.

johnsattuk
05-11-2016, 03:55 PM
Did you ever bother to put scope on them and check the timings.?

Not sure what you would check with a scope, if driving from one output, each driver would be getting the same signal at the same time, where could any cumulation of errors arise.

As most on here, me included, are only talking about driving two steppers for one axis, much of your comments are superflous

Gary
05-11-2016, 04:18 PM
What about homing? if you have multiple motors running off one output and you need to home and you have a switch on each axis, how does it handle that?
If you have a gantry and have a motor on each side connected to one output and have one home switch, how will it be able to home both sides accurately?
Also the more load you put on the output the more likely it is going to be susceptible to electrical noise and then you may have one axis loosing a step or two and over time this will add up to a big error.

johnsattuk
05-11-2016, 04:49 PM
Homing is obviously a bit more tricky but is quite possible, the controller output goes to two drivers so it is possible to switch each driver input individually with a bit of logic.

As long as you do not overload the controller output I do not see a problem, if you end up taking a few more milliamps from the controller (within it's ratings) any electrical noise will be a less percentage of the signal and will apply equally to both drivers, so do not see why one axis would lose steps without the other.

John S
05-11-2016, 05:19 PM
Dean,
Like all devices there will be limitations and I'm thinking that these cheap controllers are for simple one shot machines like a Sieg or Warco X3, WM series mill or simple home built 3 axis router that just reply on 3 + 1 axis and a single spindle, often with ER collet fitting that doesn't allow pre-set tools.

You want more features, you pay your money and move up market to the 990 series controllers.

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 05:52 PM
Dean,
Like all devices there will be limitations and I'm thinking that these cheap controllers are for simple one shot machines like a Sieg or Warco X3, WM series mill or simple home built 3 axis router that just reply on 3 + 1 axis and a single spindle, often with ER collet fitting that doesn't allow pre-set tools.

You want more features, you pay your money and move up market to the 990 series controllers.

John I agree with you 100% on most of this but lets be honest and realistic here. Not asking for more features would just like it to do what SHOULD and allow PROPER Tool changes without resorting to messing with writing/modding post processors Etc. It states follows Fanuc standard so it should do it.

This not following standards is what concerns me. What else does it not do.? ie: Canned cycles etc.
It's still on bench without motors etc but I quickly run some code thru it and seemed it didn't like G53 either but without seeing what actually happens when motors connected can't say for sure. Not really good or confidence inspiring start is it.!!

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 06:15 PM
Not sure what you would check with a scope, if driving from one output, each driver would be getting the same signal at the same time, where could any cumulation of errors arise.

As most on here, me included, are only talking about driving two steppers for one axis, much of your comments are superflous

John we will have to agree to disagree then otherwise we'll just go round in circles.!

johnsattuk
05-11-2016, 06:50 PM
Cheers :beer:

magicniner
05-11-2016, 08:21 PM
John we will have to agree to disagree then otherwise we'll just go round in circles.!

Quick reply is not seeing my space bar! ????

What I was trying to post was, what if you used a high impedance input buffer circuit on all controller outputs to isolate them from the motor driver inputs with twin buffers on one output to run two drivers?

- Nick

Boyan Silyavski
05-11-2016, 08:59 PM
What about homing? if you have multiple motors running off one output and you need to home and you have a switch on each axis, how does it handle that?
If you have a gantry and have a motor on each side connected to one output and have one home switch, how will it be able to home both sides accurately?
Also the more load you put on the output the more likely it is going to be susceptible to electrical noise and then you may have one axis loosing a step or two and over time this will add up to a big error.


At the moment i move gantry to the end and hit limit switch. back off till LED lights. Then via PC and servo control software jog other motor to same position. 1 min job, if i dont count starting the PC .


Till now no problem with driving 2 motors from one output even on long, fast and generally quite serious jobs. But now i agree here- that i can be sure only and if i test 100 controllers and they show same consistency. Soon will know as another one is on the way. tHhis time the 4 axis one.

Another thing is that i have not seen a single person use its 4rth axis so its still a mystery there.

JAZZCNC
05-11-2016, 10:22 PM
Quick reply is not seeing my space bar! ????

What I was trying to post was, what if you used a high impedance input buffer circuit on all controller outputs to isolate them from the motor driver inputs with twin buffers on one output to run two drivers?

- Nick


At the moment i move gantry to the end and hit limit switch. back off till LED lights. Then via PC and servo control software jog other motor to same position. 1 min job, if i dont count starting the PC .

WTF!!! . . . Who wants to feck about with all this shite when all you have to do is buy real controller that works and provides enough motor outputs to do the job correctly.! . . . Cum-on lets keep it real.!

This particular controller lacks 4 Axis linear movement and shouldn't be bought for machine which requires it simple as that. If folks want to force into something it's not then more fool them.

The rest of it's short cummings are yet to be found and may well be trivial who knows. But in my eyes not following strict protocols like Fanuc standard is putting it on very dodgy ground straight off the bat.!

Surely the whole point offline controller is to limit hassle not introduce new ones which there is NO assitance or help from the only people who can fix the problem.!

And Boyan you can't take out of the equation starting the PC because without the PC your bonkers method can not home.! . . So yes it's very much part the equation if the PC's not on when need to home and if you need it on to use the machine WTF the point of using Offline Controller.?
(Please don't give me "reliabilty" has the reason because I've built more than my fair share of PC based systems that run without any issues and have been running perfectly fine for several years with thousands of hours cutting time under there belts.!)

Boyan Silyavski
06-11-2016, 01:00 AM
WTF!!! . . . Who wants to feck about with all this shite when all you have to do is buy real controller that works and provides enough motor outputs to do the job correctly.! . . . Cum-on lets keep it real.!

This particular controller lacks 4 Axis linear movement and shouldn't be bought for machine which requires it simple as that. If folks want to force into something it's not then more fool them.

The rest of it's short cummings are yet to be found and may well be trivial who knows. But in my eyes not following strict protocols like Fanuc standard is putting it on very dodgy ground straight off the bat.!

Surely the whole point offline controller is to limit hassle not introduce new ones which there is NO assitance or help from the only people who can fix the problem.!

And Boyan you can't take out of the equation starting the PC because without the PC your bonkers method can not home.! . . So yes it's very much part the equation if the PC's not on when need to home and if you need it on to use the machine WTF the point of using Offline Controller.?
(Please don't give me "reliabilty" has the reason because I've built more than my fair share of PC based systems that run without any issues and have been running perfectly fine for several years with thousands of hours cutting time under there belts.!)



Cool down please. It works, it costs mere 150euro. That's it. Plus its 500kz and plus that its 4 axis. No PC.


I start the pc cause i am lazy enough to adjust a hard stop and anyway my machine was prepared and designed for easy hardstop squaring. And anyways my pc is sitting there cause all my PC are connected so when i design the file on my main PC i go to garage and there load it to USB. So its always on, plus i have it already.


If not happy then pay 300 for you loved CSMIO and move each axis separately. What? I forgot. It does not square long axis. What? if it drives 2 long motors on long axis you could not use it for A axis.. What? it can noth thread on 4rth axis.

Like you said, going in circles. if you don't like it don't use it. No need to throw this down in a box. Put it on sale here and i guarantee you that you will sell it same day.



I heard a lot of blah blah in this thread but let me tell you again something. My time is money. If your time is not. I have no time fiddling with crappy boards and software or windows, cause 500 pieces wait for me in the garage to be done, i have at least 5 serious projects that need my attention and so on... Only the time the controller saved me last 3 weeks by just pushing the start button and all work flawlessly, if i charge 20 euro per hour i have payed the controller already and again...


And remember here what i say: You can not fight with Chinese industry. They will make a better controller, cheaper and so on. At one moment in time they will sell at least 1000:1 ratio to any other controller on market or software. So the only thing then will be that other maker pretend their stuff is better and better supported and so on. But in reality they will be losing the business.

Gary
06-11-2016, 09:12 AM
So you need a PC to home both sides? are you having laugh????
If you are doing this just to home, then you may as well set the servo driver up to have second mode to jog in a direction from an input.
Its quite simple if the servo driver supports it.

However you are stuffed if you are using steppers, that most people will be on this controller.
When i home my machine, i tell it to home and it homes, it homes using the index pulse, so i know it is very accurate, the way you are doing it is not accurate. So if your time does not cost you any money, and you dont mind the hassle or dont need accuracy, then fill your boots.
However if i told a customer that is how he should home, the gantry, he would laugh at me.





At the moment i move gantry to the end and hit limit switch. back off till LED lights. Then via PC and servo control software jog other motor to same position. 1 min job, if i dont count starting the PC .


Till now no problem with driving 2 motors from one output even on long, fast and generally quite serious jobs. But now i agree here- that i can be sure only and if i test 100 controllers and they show same consistency. Soon will know as another one is on the way. tHhis time the 4 axis one.

Another thing is that i have not seen a single person use its 4rth axis so its still a mystery there.

JAZZCNC
06-11-2016, 11:45 AM
However if i told a customer that is how he should home, the gantry, he would laugh at me.

More importantly he'd walk away laughing in big rush to tell his mates.!!



Cool down please. It works, it costs mere 150euro. That's it. Plus its 500kz and plus that its 4 axis. No PC.

Boyan in no way am I getting hot or botherd about this so I'm Cool buddy. Infact the irony of your homing routine made me laugh.



I heard a lot of blah blah in this thread but let me tell you again something. My time is money. If your time is not. I have no time fiddling with crappy boards and software or windows, cause 500 pieces wait for me in the garage to be done, i have at least 5 serious projects that need my attention and so on... Only the time the controller saved me last 3 weeks by just pushing the start button and all work flawlessly, if i charge 20 euro per hour i have payed the controller already and again...

Said this before and I'll say it again. " It's Poor Work Man that Blames is Tools".
How the Hell do you think other people who are and have been using PC based Controllers make money.? And I'm not talking Mach3 I'm talking all PC based Controller/hardware.
Do you think they would tolerate Down time or Crashes etc that you seem inflict upon your self. No Bloody way would they or should they.!

Mach3/hardware combination alone as allowed 1000's Business's to work Flawlessly for years and earn Millions of $$$ do you think they would continue to buy Pc based controllers if they didn't.
Yes PC's can have issues and Mach3/4 certainly as some issues but when properly combined they can and do work flawlessly. But Both have Massive support network for when they don't, so just about most issues which relate to THEM can be resolved.

Now where it goes wrong is the "POOR WORKMAN" instantly blames the tool. Often it's Mach3 that gets slated first then he'll turn on the PC. 99% time it's his own tight fistedness or lazyness that's the real problem.


If not happy then pay 300 for you loved CSMIO and move each axis separately. What? I forgot. It does not square long axis. What? if it drives 2 long motors on long axis you could not use it for A axis.. What? it can noth thread on 4rth axis.

No I'd fit controller that was correct for the machine and not try to force controller to do job it was never built to do.
The Cslabs Controller you refer to is the IP-M which I wouldn't and Don't fit to machines that require Slaved Motors. In this case I would either use different manufacturer or if the machine warrented it I'd fit the more expensive controller.

Let me say it again so you and others understand me.! . . Or don't Missunderstand me.!!!

I'm not saying Offline controllers are not good or welcome tool. They are and I'm sure will be the future.

However these Cheaper end controllers clearly have some limitations and worse still at this time nobody really knows to what extent. So caution is needed by those on budgets or of less experience.
It's this and in this particular case Boyan your premature hailing of these controllers as All singing and dancing "Must have" piece of hardware while at same time pathetic attempt at rubbishing other long standing proven hardware that makes my temp start to rise slightly.

PC based controller/hardware like Mach3 will be around for many years to come in some form or other. Yes they will have to change because PC's are changing but they will follow and adapt. Yes they will become fewer because Offline or embedded controllers will take over for sure.

Offline controllers will evolve and very quickly I believe become the default machine controller. I have known this for few years now and I'm still waiting for cost affective reliable full spec one to arrive but this one sadly isn't it.!! . . . .Yet.

The lower priced Higher end offerings are better but for me personaly still don't have what I need in spec for the level of machine and people I provide to. The top end are out of reach on price.!

PC based shouldn't be rubbished so quickly and at the moment to me they are still the only reliable solution with good back up and support that offers full CNC functionality without costing lot of money.

Also remember you'll still be buying a PC because without it 99% of you can't run the machine.???? . . . . . The 1% who botherd to learn G-code could to some limited degree and the other 0.1% who learnt to advanced level could make do exactly what they wanted, eventually given enough time. Remember time is Money.!!

Those who bought this controller couldn't however because it has no MDI or way to manually enter code.!

The fact is PC's will be around or involved in CNC just for there Software capabiltys because without most of you are stuffed.!

Now time really is money and I need to make some so off to make lovely chips late into the night.!! . . . Have nice day Boys. . .:thumsup:

Ger21
06-11-2016, 11:59 AM
I heard a lot of blah blah in this thread but let me tell you again something. My time is money. If your time is not. I have no time fiddling with crappy boards and software or windows,

I set up my machine 7 years ago, and haven't touched it since.
People like to complain about Windows, but Windows does not cause any problems with running CNC machines.

magicniner
06-11-2016, 12:07 PM
Quick reply is not seeing my space bar! ????

What I was trying to post was, what if you used a high impedance input buffer circuit on all controller outputs to isolate them from the motor driver inputs with twin buffers on one output to run two drivers?

- Nick

My reason for posting this technical query was not to suggest that it was a solution to anything but to see if it obviated the issues to which you alluded, but which you were unwilling to define in a clear enough way that anyone reading the thread might glean or address their actual nature ;-)

I was really hoping for an answer such as "that would work" or "that wouldn't work because...." but I'm feeling my way in the dark here due to the lack of technical background to the "timing differences" problem description, I mean I'm not daft but give us a clue! :D

- Nick

John S
06-11-2016, 12:52 PM
I can see these controllers filling a niche market.
They are going to appeal to the home build user with one of a couple of machines. Probably smaller machines that don't need the bumph of having a PC and monitor connected.

As Jazz says you will still need a PC for doing programming but that doesn't have to be in the workshop.
The PC could even be a Mac running Fusion 360 and in this case that computer won't run the machine anyway.

As long as all you need is 3 + 1 axis, no slaved axis or provision for tool change then these will run fine. Especially if all you want to do is produce parts.

Anything else then at the moment the PC is king but this will change as does most things. Speaking with Art Fenerty the other week he mentioned that there have been issues with Mach 3 running on later computers not being able to read some of the system files as late machines don't use these files and they don't bundle them with them.
Not an insurmountable problem at the moment but it could be later on.

Mach 4 is a work in progress and it makes me wonder if it will ever be a plug and play program given that it can't stand on it's own and requires a 3rd party controller to run and Brian has no control over these.

Because my current area of interest is lathes and threading at the moment I have done a lot of research. With mach 3 CS Labs can thread, it's the only one that can but the thread always has a big run off groove which on small threads is not acceptable. They say Mach 4 if they do a plug in will be the same.

Mach 4 can now thread with the Pokeys 57CNC and Dan Maulch over in the States has literally spent 6 months of his life getting it to run. Why ?

Why hasn't this been done by Mach4 working with Pokeys and released by them?

This was one reason I went with the NEW990TD-b because it can thread straight out the box and was the best option for me.

Note the ME bit because we all have different agenda's.

There isn't one controller option out there be it PC or stand alone that ticks all the boxes. Eaach has it's own niche market and you have to look and see what you want and what's available.

These DSCV controller are cheap and they will fill a gap in the cheap end of the market, it's that simple but they won't do everything and if you can accept that and live with it then I can't see any problems.

Ger21
06-11-2016, 01:18 PM
Mach 4 can now thread with the Pokeys 57CNC and Dan Mauch over in the States has literally spent 6 months of his life getting it to run. Why ?

Why hasn't this been done by Mach4 working with Pokeys and released by them?

I seriously doubt that Mach4 will be anywhere nearly as successful as Mach3 was. I don't think that Brian really knows what his customers needs are.
I bought a license two years ago, but haven't downloaded any updates in over a year. I've given up on it, after waiting over 5 years.
It's still far from finished, riddled with bugs, and dependent on 3rd parties, some of which don't exactly have a good track record.
Brian likes to say that he's been making parts with Mach4 for years, but the reality is that it's not usable for most, even after all this time.
It's also incredibly complex to setup and customize, which imo will be a support nightmare for them.
As of right now, it seems like most of their customers are beginners, who have never used Mach3, but by Mach4 because it's Mach3's replacement, so it must be better, right ? :sorrow:

Yes, I agree, that these controllers are great for people with low budgets, and basic needs.

But sorely lacking if you want to do any type of customization.

My eggs are now all in the UCCNC basket.
Developers that listen to their users.
Constant updates, quick bug fixes.
Nearly as flexible as Mach3, and getting better all the time.
Better motion than Mach3, especially at higher speeds.
The downsides?
No lathe support at this time.
No "Industrial" controllers, but is that really necessary? They were working on one a while ago, but put it on hold due to time constraints. Hopefully it will re-appear at some time.
http://www.forum.cncdrive.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=169#p1039

magicniner
08-11-2016, 09:57 AM
I don't think that Brian really knows what his customers needs are.

It's a classic case of buying a company that could make you a fortune and killing support for your best product before you have anything new, that isn't broken, to sell.

He could make a really good start with a fully functional 4-axis product in exchange for a license fee rather than his current Subscription Vapourware Beta Testing Scheme :D

Brian has lost my custom, I bought Mach3 but won't be buying Mach4.

The price for a commercial Mach4 license plus a good motion controller gets close enough to a commercial grade stand-alone controller from China that the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

- Nick

Ger21
08-11-2016, 11:37 AM
the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

Yes, Imo, most people using (or attempting to use) Mach4 are not Mach3 users, but people that know Mach3 was used by everyone, and think that Mach4 must be better.

m_c
08-11-2016, 01:09 PM
The price for a commercial Mach4 license plus a good motion controller gets close enough to a commercial grade stand-alone controller from China that the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

But what support do you get with the Chinese controller?
.
I can kind of understand the direction Brian has taken NFS/Mach4.
Mach3 was ultimately developed by a hobbyist, for hobbyists, but it grew far bigger than anybody imagined, and was used for things Art has even admitted, he never even thought it would.
Brian on the other hand knows the potential of the industrial market, and he is providing that market what they want. A highly customisable solution with full support. In doing so I think it's fair to say he hasn't given the hobbyist market as much support as he could have.
Mach 4 is a better product than Mach 3, however it doesn't have anywhere near the same community or vendor support, and there are lots of other options available now that simply weren't when Mach 3 was the defacto hobbyist option.
Certainly now that KMotionCNC has a screen editor, I don't see me switching to Mach 4, but I'll still keep running my little probing machine on Mach 3, just for the Probe-It probing plugin.

Ger21
08-11-2016, 01:11 PM
but I'll still keep running my little probing machine on Mach 3, just for the Probe-It probing plugin.

I believe that the author of the Probe It is porting it to UCCNC.

m_c
08-11-2016, 01:22 PM
I believe that the author of the Probe It is porting it to UCCNC.
Not much use to me though, as my probing machine runs a KFlop+KStep with linear scales to close the loop, to get as much accuracy as possible. :-/
.
Ger, do you happen to know the Macro/program refresh rate for the UCNC software?
I know Mach3 is 10Hz, Mach 4 is fair bit quicker but depends on system load, and KFlop depends entirely on how you program it but can potentially be 90uS.

John S
08-11-2016, 01:40 PM
The price for a commercial Mach4 license plus a good motion controller gets close enough to a commercial grade stand-alone controller from China that the only thing keeping New Fangled Solutions going is the ignorance of their potential customers to the options available!

- Nick

I still follow the Mach support forums on their web site and the Yahoo groups and there are still plenty of posts about erratic behavior with Smooth stepper and also Pokeys.

Mach 4, unlike mach 3 is no longer a self contained program as the parallel port operation in Mach 4 is very limited and mach 4 needs an external controller to run.
This means Brian no longer has any control over a full system and so far Mach and any of the external controller manufacturers has bothered to bundle the two products up for an easy install.

Being interested in Lathe I have been following Dan Maulch's journey to get mach4 working with the Pokeys57CNC board.
It looks like he has finally got it working after 6 months or so with a lot of help from Pokeys and seemingly none from Mach 4 but why has he had to do this ? He's not being paid by Pokeys or Brian ?

Last year at the CNC conference near Detroit Ron Ginger set a workshop up to convert 10 or 12 Hi-torque lathes to run off Mach 4 and pokeys with a box built by Arturo Duncan at CNC4PC, I believe the box cost around $900.
According to Ron everyone left the workshop with a working lathe but only one person has posted since then about their machine and that was to say that due to issues with Mach 4 he couldn't get his machine running and so far it still isn't running.

Not one person posted a video? and Ron will not show a finished thread?

But using the plug ins that were available at the Workshop Dan Maulch could not get a lathe to thread, It took quite a few upgrades to the plug in before Dan's machine could work.

Personally i can't get mach 4 to run on my desktop machine, it won't run code generated by Mach3 even though a Chinese Fanuc clone will run the same file with no problem. It comes up with error messages saying it's running in the wrong plane even though G18 is in the startup line and others have reported the same and still no answer from Mach 4 support.

2 / 3 weeks ago Dan finally got his pendant working with Pokeys and posted how to do it. Quite a long convoluted post, to set this up.
I decided to see if the supplied pendant would work with the NEW990TD-b controller so took the pendant, plugged it into the back by it's 25 pin plug and what do you know, ? it worked.

Art when he handled Mach 3 had a whole different ball game. He listened to what people had to say, wasn't afraid to admit mistakes and go back to rectify them and mainly he was able to work smart,

Since retiring he's written Gearotic V1.0, V2.0 and is now on V3.0. He has written Auggie which is a 3 D printer and laser motion controller, a lot like M3 and Brain still hasn't managed to get mach4 reasonably stable.

Sorry for me, far too little and far too late.

Ger21
08-11-2016, 01:47 PM
UCCNC has 48 macroloops, which are similar to mach3's macropump. These apparently run independently, and can be any speed you want. There's an example in the manual for running at 20Hz. Apparently, the faster they run, the higher the CPU loading?
They don't mention the screen refresh, but it's independent of the macros, and appears to be much faster than mach3, as the DRO's are much smoother. The toolpath display is different, so hard to compare. But the entire interface seems much faster.

Ger21
08-11-2016, 01:50 PM
According to Ron everyone left the workshop with a working lathe but only one person has posted since then about their machine and that was to say that due to issues with Mach 4 he couldn't get his machine running and so far it still isn't running.

Not one person posted a video? and Ron will not show a finished thread?

A friend of mine has one of those lathes, but hasn't had time to use it. Last time I talked to him, he said there were still issues with the speed control due to either the Pokeys or the speed control board they are using, from CNC4PC I think?

John S
08-11-2016, 02:01 PM
But what support do you get with the Chinese controller?
.

.

A very good question and a very valid one.
This depends on controller.
If we are talking about the DSCV cheap controller then none, all the vendors want to do is take your money and pass the buck.
What will happen in time though is there will become a users self help forum or forums where people can share problems. This happens now over the internet with any product. I have just had problems with my central heating boiler and all the help came from outside of the manufacturer.

The more expensive ones like the 990 series is a lot better.
For a start these are not new. they have been used in China for the domestic market for 8 plus years so by now the rough edges should be missing ?

If you pay more and buy from Adtech or GSK then you can expect good support but that's why you pay more.

For most psrt it's not support but understanding the controller.
In my case on a couple of things I wasn't sure off, and the book was wrong but the edited copy is on the internet already, I went down to a CNC place local to me and got one of their guys to explain what was what.

He runs 3 machines, a Fanuc 21, a Haas and a DMG but even though they have three proprietary controllers they all work the same.

TBH I can see the support issues with these stand alones being far less than having to link a PC to a controller to an external controller and probably throw a conversion board into the mix.

The lathes at the CNC workshop has a PC of unknown vintage, Mach 4, Pokeys 57CNC controller and a box from arturo Duncan to connect it all up so when it doesn't work who do you go to ?
Dell / HP ?, Mach 4?, Pokeys?, or Arturo ?

All of whom just want to pass the buck.

Most people want to use a machine, not play with it and they want plug and play. As soon as two components get thrown into the ring it's not plug and play.

I bought a K-Flop a while ago as having been told it can do lathe which it can IF you are able to program in C++

So it stands on the shelf with the rest of the very expensive components that promise the earth but never deliver.

Boyan Silyavski
08-11-2016, 08:24 PM
I thought its absolutely obvious - DDCSV is a cheap controller meant for 3+1 and is absolutely fabulous for a 3 axis machine due to the fact that it works at all for 150 euro. Especially good for a cheap machine. I thought also i am conversing with grown men that need not explaining that if i have spend 7000-8000 euro on my machine on parts only, i can afford to buy 1000euro controller that can home correctly.

The reason playing with Pokeys and all these controllers was to test for myself the cheaper options, so i choose a controller for future cheap machines.

But while you are laughing many people will retrofit it on 3 or 4 axis mills and this will seriously undermine the market for EU made and USA made stuff for DIY. Will see who laughs after 2 years.

Plus now that i have found the good expensive controllers for 500 euro from manufacturer, per piece, not wholesale price, it will be interesting to see how CSMIO will sell after an year or 2 their controllers for 900 euro, even if the offer all the support in the world.

When i go at ebay i hit "lowest price+lowest shipping first" , don't you :toot: . The other day was checking 3d printers. On every Prusa sold there are 500 sold from China, from each of the 20 manufacturers. Just a fact. I am not saying anything.

m_c
08-11-2016, 11:23 PM
UCCNC has 48 macroloops, which are similar to mach3's macropump. These apparently run independently, and can be any speed you want. There's an example in the manual for running at 20Hz. Apparently, the faster they run, the higher the CPU loading?
They don't mention the screen refresh, but it's independent of the macros, and appears to be much faster than mach3, as the DRO's are much smoother. The toolpath display is different, so hard to compare. But the entire interface seems much faster.

Thanks for that Gerry. I did have a quick look through the UCNC manual, but couldn't find anything, and a quick search of the forum mentioned a macro manual which I couldn't find a download link to. It was how quick macros could update inputs/outputs I was interested in. As long as the screen can tell me what I need to know at a reasonable speed, I'm not that interested in just how quickly it updates.
.
I've not got any plans to use any of their controllers, but I still like to know what the limitations are for whenever any questions come up.

m_c
08-11-2016, 11:54 PM
<snip>
I bought a K-Flop a while ago as having been told it can do lathe which it can IF you are able to program in C++

So it stands on the shelf with the rest of the very expensive components that promise the earth but never deliver.

Some very valid points regarding support.
One of the things I like about Dynomotion, is Tom (main man behind the company) is very responsive to any questions. Any bugs discovered are dealt with quickly. Only last week a bug was found in their new screen editor, and the fix was released today, which was actually pretty slow for them, but he had already posted a work around within a few hours, so a full fix wasn't urgent.
It's not unknown for him to release patches within a day to fix proven bugs.
.
Yes, they can be daunting to setup, but if you post up on the Yahoo group, or the cnczone forum, you'll get help. I've seen people with no programming background have their systems up and running within a couple days, which isn't bad by the time you factor in time for replies, and for the people to gather/post/test things.
.
For basic systems, the hardest part is the main configuration file (configures the KFlop with what axis outputs/inputs are needed), but there are sample files included, and for the axis configuration information, the KMotion configuration program can generate the required code for you to copy and paste in.
It's only when you want to start doing custom things that the C coding really kicks in, but there are plenty sample files included.
.
For a basic lathe, running Mach3, all you need is the main config file, with just the axis information for the two axis. Everything else can be handled in Mach 3. For KMotionCNC, with the new screen editor, simple things like flipping outputs with a button, can now be handled without having to write any C code.
However KFlops also suffer with the Mach3 slow pull out problem when threading. The problem is although Mach3 switches back from mm/rev to mm/min mode, it uses the mm/rev value as the mm/min value, so for a 2mm pitch thread, you get 2mm/min pull out, instead of the set federate.
KMotionCNC on the other hand doesn't. Provided you write the G-code correctly, it'll group together all the required synchronised moves, so you can pull out however you want.
Somebody posted an example not that long ago which involved a taper lead in to a parallel thread to a 45deg pullout.
The only requirement is you need a quadrature output encoder on the spindle. Single/multi-slot sensors won't work.
.
However, if you want to clear some shelf space, I'd buy the KFlop, as it can be handy having an extra one for testing.

m_c
09-11-2016, 12:05 AM
But while you are laughing many people will retrofit it on 3 or 4 axis mills and this will seriously undermine the market for EU made and USA made stuff for DIY. Will see who laughs after 2 years.

Plus now that i have found the good expensive controllers for 500 euro from manufacturer, per piece, not wholesale price, it will be interesting to see how CSMIO will sell after an year or 2 their controllers for 900 euro, even if the offer all the support in the world.

Things could be very different in two years.
Every chance the Euro could very well implode by then, along with China's artificially deflated economy.
.
I've got a friend who works in materials import and export, and he reckons it's just a case of when, not if, the Chinese economy causes major problems. Brexit has caused him enough headaches already, but I think he fully expects to be out of work for a long time once China loses grip on inflation, and global demand plummets.

JAZZCNC
09-11-2016, 12:55 AM
Things could be very different in two years.
Every chance the Euro could very well implode by then, along with China's artificially deflated economy.

Things could be very different in two weeks time if that lunatic Trump wins in few hours time.!!!:devilish:

Boyan Silyavski
09-11-2016, 07:31 AM
Things could be very different in two weeks time if that lunatic Trump wins in few hours time.!!!:devilish:

Hopefullynot,comeonLee,fixthatquickreplyplease

magicniner
09-11-2016, 09:29 AM
Things could be very different in two weeks time if that lunatic Trump wins in few hours time.!!!:devilish:

You forgot to cross your fingers while you typed that! :-(

Ger21
09-11-2016, 11:27 AM
Hopefully, everything Trump said he wanted to do were lies, like everything else he said. :concern:

Neale
09-11-2016, 01:03 PM
Please don't get too distracted by the nonsense that's just happened in the US, guys! I, for one, have been following this discussion with great interest, although I doubt that I shall be throwing out my Mach3/CSMIO setup any time soon. However, I recognise that that solution isn't the optimum as I have a slaved X axis machine and I still need to sort out homing problems with the IP/M because the IP/S, which does it properly, is too expensive. Maybe in future the answer will be one of these dedicated controllers.

There are definitely two classes of users here. One is the home/hobby user, like me. I'm fortunate in having a background in both electronics and computing, so wiring up and configuring these things, assuming that they have the basic functionality needed, isn't a big deal, and I can afford time more than money to get it all sorted. For me, the other type of user is the professional but small-scale user. Not the big organisations with the manpower and resources to sort problems, but the one-man kind of business. A friend of mine who runs a small business making signs and notice boards wanted to bring the engraving in house instead of subcontracting it to a local company (who weren't very good anyway). He bought a Chinese 600x900 router, although a rather better and more expensive version than some of the cheap ones around. He needs to be doing money-earning work, not fiddling about building a machine. Setting up the hardware was pretty easy, no problems there. However, the machine came with Mach3 (and he did buy a "proper" licence) plus a USB motion controller. Fortunately, I was able to help him get going. The half-day or so it took me would probably have taken him a week, assuming that he succeeded at all. He could have done with an install-and-forget solution, even at a slightly higher price. For the home user, once the dedicated box becomes cheaper than buying all the separate bits and wiring them together, the choice will be equally obvious. I, for one, am looking to you experts to guide me as to what's becoming available:smile:

Interesting that there seems to be such a problem with lathe CNC, particularly threading. At first sight it doesn't sound like that big a problem but maybe it is - and the lathe CNC market is too small compared with 3/4-axis machines to be worth worrying about?

John S
09-11-2016, 02:25 PM
That is the problem, lathe is a very small market compared to routers and mills.

However it's a problem that I can't understand in some ways as we could thread with the Conect / Boxford / Denford machines on DOS and now we have far more powerful external motion controllers and computers but no one seems to be able to get it right out of the box ??

m_c
09-11-2016, 11:48 PM
As John says, lathe is only a small part of the market. I can't remember if it was Art or Brian, but I'm sure their upper estimate was 10% of Mach users used turn, but more likely near 5%. And Mach is probably the most popular option for Turn applications.
.
I'm not sure why threading is so hard. I suspect the problem is how more modern controllers have been programmed to handle general motion, that when they get around to adding threading, it involves major changes, so it gets glued on as an after thought.
I'd guess the old DOS systems were a pretty basic system. Move x steps each time there's a pulse from the multislot sensor, adjust timing slightly if too fast/slow, and you have a thread. The benefit that style of controller had, was the hardware and software was the responsibility of one entity, and you didn't have to program in lots of different options, along with all the other usually pointless functionality that users think they must have.

Clive S
10-11-2016, 11:25 AM
Dare I say this there is always linuxcnc https://forum.linuxcnc.org/show-your-stuff/31710-threading-at-1350-rpm-m14x2 :cower:

magicniner
10-11-2016, 01:33 PM
Dare I say this there is always linuxcnc https://forum.linuxcnc.org/show-your-stuff/31710-threading-at-1350-rpm-m14x2 :cower:

Well it's got to be better than paying $200 for a license based on advertised functionality only to find they might make it work this year, next year, sometime, never.

If a few more of the developers of linuxcnc were experienced engineers and could see past their own assumed level of knowledge it would be the only option at this point in time ;-)

- Nick

John S
10-11-2016, 01:57 PM
And a GUI that doesn't look like Etch-a-Sketch on acid :emmersed:

Clive S
10-11-2016, 02:23 PM
And a GUI that doesn't look like Etch-a-Sketch on acid :emmersed:

Is this better https://forum.linuxcnc.org/show-your-stuff/31759-knuth-numturn-360-lathe-retrofit

Merlin201314
10-11-2016, 03:45 PM
Small update with video to follow:

Controller is mounted in my enclosure and after i spend yesterday all day playing with it, i could say- I like it and i am very happy with it.

Machines moves smoothly as ever at 10000/min and 3000 acceleration. Spindle speed is stable. Program time execution- same as using Mach3 or 4.


Manual has some confusing Chinglish elements as to be expected.




Probing works very well but needs some clarification:

First of all there are 2 types of probing:
Where tool position is at the moment or in Machine Coordinates the probes place on the machine could be predefined and probe or another probe mounted there.

Now the trick. It should be done once only.
Put a tool in collet, tighten it at hand but leave it a bit untightened so that if machine pushes it towards bed it will move inside the collet but at same time is not loose.
One must go to probing settings and make sure probe thickness is set to 0.000 and if not set it so and make sure probing is enabled and " at current tool position".
Then go back to control screen and start moving Z towards table. When you hit Z in table, bit will move a bit into collet. So now you are 0 to table in Working coordinates. Use commands and set Z to 0 in Working Coordinates on screen
M0ve Z up more distance than the probe is thick / by the way Z up is + and down is -, toward you Y is - and away from you is +, X left is -, X right is +, the so called right cartesian coordinate system/
Lay probe on table surface / current Z0/ . + of probe is connected to conductive probe material, minus to spindle body or bit, +should be isolated by other material like plastic from below/
hit "MODE2" then "-A" x 2 times and probing starts . When bit touches plate Z goes up depends how much you have predefined in probe settings. If you look now at probe setting you will see a number that may not be your probe thickness. DO NOT CHANGE THAT NUMBER. Its not wrong.

Now you can probe normally, control knows your real probe thickness, even if there is a loss of power.

PRECAUTIONS:
1. When changing G54 with other WCS you lose your probe thickness so you must do that again. Be Careful! Until you figure all out, raise the probe on a sponge.
2. If you program one of the external buttons that could be connected as 0 instead of "start" / when you hit it it zeroes all in WCS / , then when you zero from it, after that you again gave to repeat the probe thickness setting like from the start. I will investigate further but its start to seem that when you probe and 3 axis are zeroed right before that, that means it comprehends it like you want to set probe thickness, not like setting your Z WCS zero.


I will continue later with my findings. Now back to work.

Hi all, new in the forum....

Regarding the DDCSV1.1 chinese controller,

Is not really clear about the mode 1/mode2 of the Zprobe, i realize that if i setup the probe tool in mode2 with the correct height and current position it works
perfectly as i can measure mi tool with a caliper, so why i need to use the mode1?? (maibe i'm too thick to understand)...
And again, as the chinenglish manual is not clear at all, we all have to guess what is what....
Is someone can explain me the concept it would be great, thank you all
Regards

Boyan Silyavski
10-11-2016, 04:21 PM
Its very simple. It assumes you have a zero setting gauge. You hit the gauge and move until is Zero there. Knowing that the gauge is 50mm high you zero the machine. When you hit zero Z, you enter 50mm and now machine knows where bed is. Next put whatever isolated probe on bed and hit Probe. Now it figures the probe thickness.

But hit a button that zeroes all 3 axis together and all of the above is lost. Does that make sense to you?


So lets chew it up again:

In order for you to use automated probing without any further hassle like above, one very simple modification should be made to machine. Mount your probe / VDC+/ on the machine directly, so that + does not touch bed in any way. So that probe surface must be actual table zero level. You can do that by pocketing your bed if metal, fit a plate there connected to +, epoxy it, wait to dry and surface it on bed level. You could even tell controller where that is so every time the probe goes there to check tool offset. or just buy 2 of the cheap 3 euro chinese spring probes from ebay and integrate one in bed.

So once you have that probe level with bed, you could either use another probe or use only this probe

edited: dont use the method i said here as i found a serious mistake from my part, in certain scenarios. Use the mechanical method described above or several post below.

Merlin201314
10-11-2016, 05:01 PM
Thank you so much for the kind reply, but as much as i tried i cannot find the way---
You should make a short video, because mode 1 and mode 2 have two different beheaviour, and even if i setup the fixed probe on the machine bed, still not working.

So for sure i do something wrong!!!!!
If you don't mind to write the steps one by one as in a manual with the setup of the mode and next step to follow that would help a lot.
is not clear in which mode you measure the bed zero, (1 or 2?) as my bed zero is at -140mm from the machine zero(which is positive up)
and every time you hit the zero button, it go up to zero the z axis and start again, but the odd number in the controller is always a strange number, it doesen't make any sense honestly..
In mode 2 when the controller is setup as "current position" and the tool gauge entered manually(caliper measured) i can measure the worktop but thats that :-(( and is the only way i can work

magicniner
10-11-2016, 05:33 PM
if you have a nice machine its better to have flat table and take and program Z level in CAM from table level. Not material level. As what you do when in the middle of program machining surface is spoiled and no way to zero again there????t

Work Offsets allow you to have bed level as Machine Z-zero with the top of work as your Work Z-zero, that's what Work Offsets are for. ;-)

The professional CNC machinists I've spoken to tend to use a top of part/stock Z zero,

- Nick

Boyan Silyavski
12-11-2016, 10:43 AM
Work Offsets allow you to have bed level as Machine Z-zero with the top of work as your Work Z-zero, that's what Work Offsets are for. ;-)

The professional CNC machinists I've spoken to tend to use a top of part/stock Z zero,

- Nick

Unfortunately DIY cnc machine will be always one step behind due to the lack of absolute encoders or scales that at all time tell the machine the exact position, even if power switched off. To rely on working offsets on a machine equipped with cheap chinese limit switches is ridiculous. As i said somewhere above on a couple of occasions i measured 0.4mm initial imprecision and now while browsing 3D printer stuff i found some reports that temperature also changes the situation..

Now the thing is that you are right in a way, cause on a DIY machine, nothing happens if 0.1-0.4mm things are not right when homed. But you could not continue aluminum job if power is cut or you need to reset steppers, i have tried that to no avail, at least a couple of times

magicniner
12-11-2016, 11:38 AM
Unfortunately DIY cnc machine will be always one step behind due to the lack of absolute encoders or scales that at all time tell the machine the exact position, even if power switched off.

That statement is true but is not relevant.

Having your bed as machine Z zero and using a work offset is no more complex than having your bed as work zero and setting the bottom of your stock as your Z zero in CAM, it doesn't require any fancy encoders or switches, it does require a little planning, but no more so than using a bottom of stock zero in CAM.

Having your bed as machine Z zero and using a work offset does have the considerable advantage that if machining or engraving a series of features in a surface you can do this on a variety of thicknesses of stock without having to refer to CAM to see what stock thickness you had set and then calculating a compensating offset ;-)

- Nick

John S
12-11-2016, 12:41 PM
Dangerous to use the bed as work zero.

What happens if your machine decides to go to Z 0 without switching the tool offset off ?

Bang cutter all the way though the work.

If the top of the work is Z0.0 then all cutting moves are negative, any positive Z moves are safe.

Boyan Silyavski
12-11-2016, 01:14 PM
We are talking different machines here. Who uses tool offsets on non repeatable tool holder, like ER20 on a Chinese spindle????? Me not.

You are talking about mills and i am talking about routers.

In reality i use the work offset that suits me better for each separate job and have the good custom to mark that in my file name. like xxxxx 0vacfixt or xxxx0bed or 0top. I would have told that from the beginning but was just making a point here.

its obvious that i don't work in machine coordinates and use different coordinate systems G54 to G59. What i was saying above is that there is no point making fixtures and each fixture to have a predefined work offset, cause the machine anyway will not find properly the 0 just from homing without manually finding the zero.

or am i not explaining what i want to say?

Let's say it in another way. I use nothing complicated but every separate job i find the zero again and again not only in Z but X and Y also. All else is time wasting time on a DIY machine that every time runs totally different job

Ger21
12-11-2016, 01:24 PM
To rely on working offsets on a machine equipped with cheap chinese limit switches is ridiculous.

I use DIY hall effect switches, which are supposedly accurate to .01mm or better. There's a thread on CNC Zone where the designer showed his testing for accuracy. Cost about $15 to make.

I've resumed jobs many times after homing, with no issues at all.

magicniner
12-11-2016, 02:58 PM
Who uses tool offsets on non repeatable tool holder, like ER20 on a Chinese spindle?

It's not Rocket Science! All you need to do is bond collars onto your tools to set their insertion depth into the collet and your tool height will be repeatable in a correctly torqued ER collet chuck ;-)

- Nick

JAZZCNC
12-11-2016, 04:09 PM
Unfortunately DIY cnc machine will be always one step behind due to the lack of absolute encoders or scales that at all time tell the machine the exact position, even if power switched off. To rely on working offsets on a machine equipped with cheap chinese limit switches is ridiculous. As i said somewhere above on a couple of occasions i measured 0.4mm initial imprecision and now while browsing 3D printer stuff i found some reports that temperature also changes the situation..

Boyan your wrong or doing something wrong.?
I use Chinese prox switches all the time and my findings are very different. My own machine uses them and I'm cutting Aluminium all the time and regularly cock up in some way so then rely on the home switches to get me back into position. They always get me back into position without issue.


its obvious that i don't work in machine coordinates and use different coordinate systems G54 to G59. What i was saying above is that there is no point making fixtures and each fixture to have a predefined work offset, cause the machine anyway will not find properly the 0 just from homing without manually finding the zero.

Again wrong or don't Understand WORK OFFSETS.? Why would the machine need to find new machine Zero for each WORK OFFSET. The machine Zero doesn't change between switching offsets so after the initial First home it doesn't need to be done again.

The switch quality or accuracy as nothing to do with WORK OFFSETS. If the machine is setup correctly then after First Homing it will always know where each Fixtrue is located because it's just an OFFSET from MACHINE Zero. Only if MACHINE Zero position is lost will switch accuracy come into play to enable finding WORK Zero again.

John S
12-11-2016, 04:38 PM
We are talking different machines here. Who uses tool offsets on non repeatable tool holder, like ER20 on a Chinese spindle????? Me not.



I do all the while and also teach it other wise if the tool is set to zero it drags it across the top of the work between moves.

It's very simple to follow a set of standard directions when cutting to protect the work, cutter and operator.

CNC isn't new, what is new is everyone thinking their way is better when it isn't.

Boyan Silyavski
13-11-2016, 01:37 PM
I can not waste my time to argue with you guys, plus may be you are professional machinists and teachers and i learned about CNC a couple of years ago. Some of it from you. if you say its right for you, ok. If you say all the world does it that way, i agree and would not argue. My mistake then.


But i couldn't care less for all that. I am having a strong opinion what is good for me, what saves me time and how jobs should be run in my home workshop. I have extremely flexible and open mind plus a good memory. I use whatever technique for the moment that best suits me. As i said i mostly use material top as Z0 but sometimes not. So if i hit go to Zero and tool digs in material, bad for me, but it does not happen, because when i program Z0 to be worktable, i program save Z movement higher than material+bit and usually XY0 is material corner not center, so that have never happened. Anyway, machines are not to sleep at, and one should be very awake when working. When i am tired or not in a good shape, i don't use machines


I have tried to use collars as the Kyocera engraving tools come with collars. They are not precise neither repeatable to my liking. So from that time on i dont care for collars. Its faster not to use that way of thinking,.

Another good reason not to use tool offsets and premeasure tools. I have a small case of tools which in total are around 1500euro worth. They basically just cover my pretty basic needs. i don't have 10 000 to spare on tooling. Many times i use the same tool for various jobs, materials plus even for various type of toolpaths on same job. Which means every time i recalculate toolpaths as needed. Which means every different time i insert the tool into the collet just enough for the job. I dont see the reason to have the same stickout just the tool to be repeatable, to make the work offset and so on.

And yes Dean, i use work offsets and i know what they are. I think you should have guessed when i am saying something is not working i am talking about after power loss. I will demonstrate the switch imprecision with video. Hysteresis. That's what i am talking about. But good for you that your switches are working right. What i have discovered is that all depends how you read the switch, from the moment that gets off or from the moment that gets on again. There is difference between both cases. So i found that when i read in forums and people said there:"use simple on /off switches" and i thought " well that's too simple, sensors must be better" i was wrong. Simple switches work better.


So let me again explain the simplest way to Z0 and use the probe with the DDCS controller:

1.put any flat bottom tool in collet and tighten by hand, not by wrench
2.lower Z axis until the bit touches the work table, then move z down 1-2mm so tool moves inside collet up. Stop.
3.hit preprogrammed button to 0XYZ or just use controller and zero Z
4.lift Z axis
5.put probe on table and hit A for probing operation / + is connected to probe -to spindle or machine/, probe has insulator at the bottom
6.probe is touched and probe thickness is rcorded
7.now you can use the probe whenever you like, top or bottom or whatever, cause thickness is recorded

-hit Zero all button again and all of the above is lost. So don't do that or just have it in mind


That's all. So simple. i take back my words and edited the post where i explained the 2 touch probes scenario, as i just found that i was mistaken and in certain cases this will lead to error. I deleted it so nobody makes the mistake . So just use the above said or the below variation, which i find better, but you need a Z setting gauge.

variation of the above using Zero axis setter with known length and DTI:

2. lower until bit touches zero axis setter and all is zero there.
3. if Z axis setter tool is 50mm high/the typical one/ , hit Z0 and enter 50mm, hit enter. Now machine knows its worktable zero


SB shared that video with me in a message, so thanks! I decided to share here. Don't ask me how is done, i know nothing more but will write or call the guys to see if they share.They are Russians or Ukrainians:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvSBstpB3F0

Merlin201314
13-11-2016, 05:12 PM
Thank you for the clarification, and for sharing the video.

Sended by my tapatalk

Merlin201314
13-11-2016, 05:23 PM
Thank you for the clarification, and for sharing the video.

Sended by my tapatalk
I even noticed that the software limit is not working properly in the controller(or maybe I do all wrong as usual) when I enable the software limit and setup all the traveling limits, the machine do the zero properly, and then the axis start traveling to the setup limit and stop, no other chance to move the machine then, what I'm doing wrong now? Thank you for any help you can give me before I throw the controller in the bin and buy a professional one


Sended by my tapatalk

Boyan Silyavski
13-11-2016, 06:03 PM
There was something like " ignore limit when home" in the limits menu? Plus i have programmed there to retract 10mm back, i think that was the default.

Now there is an situation where when homing overshoots the 0 and enters in the soft limit zone. What it does then is start to go into the another direction towards the other end limit switch.

Hence generally i find that it's a good practice to disable SOFT LIMIT when homing and then enable it again once homing is done. Or lower the speed of homing so it will stop on time. problem on a big machine like mine, cause you have to wait a lot. Or enter 2-3mm negative soft limit, but problem is that at 4mm it already will hit the sensor.

So i disable soft limit, home and then again i enable it. Anyway, i don't switch off the machine all day long.

On the first machine i have done i had the limits so that they will not interfere with the gantry, but on this one i decided that perpendicular position will give me better accuracy.

Merlin201314
13-11-2016, 06:54 PM
Problem solved thank you, was the over shooting that cause the problem, I just added a +/-0.5 mm to each axis and now is perfect, thank you!!

Sended by my tapatalk

Merlin201314
14-11-2016, 11:34 PM
What about this one guys? Soon this controller will have a new look and setup!! (this is just a quick screen to try the colors19624

Sended by my tapatalk

magicniner
15-11-2016, 09:32 AM
You've replaced a graphic with an alternative graphic?

That's "Modding" alright!

;-)

Merlin201314
15-11-2016, 09:53 AM
I would call this "customization", as i have no words to describe the original boot screen!!!
But i'm working on a very good graphic, so it will make sense then. This was just a trial.
A big thank to Benedikt for his contribution about the firmware, we hope to make this one "open source" soon.

Lee Roberts
15-11-2016, 01:30 PM
I would call this "customization", as i have no words to describe the original boot screen!!!
But i'm working on a very good graphic, so it will make sense then. This was just a trial.
A big thank to Benedikt for his contribution about the firmware, we hope to make this one "open source" soon.
Yeah great work you two are doing on this, I read the mad modder thread on it last night.

I wonder if Boyan has seen it yet ?

Merlin201314
15-11-2016, 01:45 PM
Yeah great work you two are doing on this, I read the mad modder thread on it last night.

I wonder if Boyan has seen it yet ?
Mmmhhh, don't know , maybe not yet, in the meantime this is the better one, Benedict is going to include the design as default if possible, let's see how is going on in the next few days...
Cheers 🍻 19627

Sended by my tapatalk

Boyan Silyavski
15-11-2016, 03:49 PM
The modding this controller needs is the following:

-make A to be slaved to Y / i still dont know if that is not originally done as there is a place where you say if A is B, whatever that means even if degrees does not change to mm/
-make the squaring of gantry YA

-read the M06 command

-reassign the Limit switches inputs for other purposes . This controller only needs 4 home inputs, not 12:beaten:. Connecting the limits together on each axis , like is normally done by DIYers



Who is Benedict? :pirate:

Merlin201314
15-11-2016, 06:29 PM
The A axis slave reference can be set as A/X, A/Y, A/Z in my controller,

A or B axis selection is not clear in the software, but at this point everything is possible with the chinese.......
"circ" should mean mm in translation, as the circumference is measured in mm, not in degree,(rotation=degree)
Benedikt is the Mistery man :-)

Boyan Silyavski
15-11-2016, 07:53 PM
I discovered that i have a problem with small carvings and very fine details. I tried 2 times to carve a stamp from aluminum ~30mm diameter, X and Y started slowly to loose position. Lowered the acceleration from 3000 to 1000, did a dry run also.

Same problem persists. :grumpy:.


Now the question is: the controller??? or the servos need further tuning??? or i have to slow further things down, which i dont believe is the case. I remember i bumped up servos quite much to be responsive via software and even 3000 accelerations and more than 10000 mm/m speeds on objects like 200x200cm there was no problem at all. Checked initially the machine, does not seem to have sth loose.


Any ideas??? Could that be the small lines? Exported v carving file as arcs also, same again. Thinking about it it looses both X and Y and moves slowly in diagonal on every step down of the Z is visible. At the end of tool path controller shows same machine coordinates as on start 0.

Should i try to find the look ahead in the controller and make it bigger, i was thinking of disabling drawing the tool paths?


i don know what exactly to do now except bump more the servo response and see what happens

JAZZCNC
15-11-2016, 08:01 PM
Now the question is: the controller??? or the servos need further tuning???

If there is option to change Step edge ie: Active hi/lo then try this. You could be on the wrong side of the edge in which case you'll lose 1 pulse for every direction change.?

Merlin201314
15-11-2016, 11:27 PM
In the controller, in the last part of the machine parameter you can fond the "interpolation period", set it up at 0,005 and try it, change even the "screen refresh" at not less than 4000, otherwise the screen will slow the cpu, as it not equipped with a graphic card.(you don't need to watch the screen, watch the machine).

Find even the "operating acceleration" parameter and set it up at 500mm is the diagonal interpolated acceleration try it and find a reasonable one for your machine.
Is just a bit of thing to try, maybe it won't help you, but it worth try.....

If you have servos, they are coming with resolver on the back, so your motors know exactly where and when they are at all time.
So, even with strong acceleration they shouldn't loose position... Here the problem: is your Router ridgid enough? Because with long traveling and strong accelerations the structure has the time to stabilize in between the movment, with very short traveling the machine is going into a factor called "structural resonance" and "inverted motion", what that mean? It mean that the axis is called to travel in a direction, but due to acceleration and mass involved the underneath structure is going in the opposite direction, and in a very small piece this factor is noticeable, even more when you are carving aluminium rather than wood, thats why the milling machines are heavy, especially CNC centers. Another thing to check is the connections between the motors and the ballscrews.... check all the mechanic parts first, as per very small pieces and high acceleration you are going to join another world with a high inversion rate, is called "jerk"
A router is a router, and as much as you like it, is shaking and flexible under high torque.....
I would suggest you to lower the acceleration to 300/500mm Min and look if the problem is persistent before retuning all the motors and blame them or the controller.

Regards

Boyan Silyavski
16-11-2016, 03:46 PM
If there is option to change Step edge ie: Active hi/lo then try this. You could be on the wrong side of the edge in which case you'll lose 1 pulse for every direction change.?
I always forget about that one, but as far as i remember was correctly set to work with normal BOB. I will now check again. In controller could not find a way to change that. I know where to change that in the servos. Will have to read the manual again though.

PS. alright, there is that in the controller, i found it. will try it later


In the controller, in the last part of the machine parameter you can fond the "interpolation period", set it up at 0,005 and try it, change even the "screen refresh" at not less than 4000, otherwise the screen will slow the cpu, as it not equipped with a graphic card.(you don't need to watch the screen, watch the machine).

Find even the "operating acceleration" parameter and set it up at 500mm is the diagonal interpolated acceleration try it and find a reasonable one for your machine.
Is just a bit of thing to try, maybe it won't help you, but it worth try.....

If you have servos, they are coming with resolver on the back, so your motors know exactly where and when they are at all time.
So, even with strong acceleration they shouldn't loose position... Here the problem: is your Router ridgid enough? Because with long traveling and strong accelerations the structure has the time to stabilize in between the movment, with very short traveling the machine is going into a factor called "structural resonance" and "inverted motion", what that mean? It mean that the axis is called to travel in a direction, but due to acceleration and mass involved the underneath structure is going in the opposite direction, and in a very small piece this factor is noticeable, even more when you are carving aluminium rather than wood, thats why the milling machines are heavy, especially CNC centers. Another thing to check is the connections between the motors and the ballscrews.... check all the mechanic parts first, as per very small pieces and high acceleration you are going to join another world with a high inversion rate, is called "jerk"
A router is a router, and as much as you like it, is shaking and flexible under high torque.....
I would suggest you to lower the acceleration to 300/500mm Min and look if the problem is persistent before retuning all the motors and blame them or the controller.

Regards

Machine is quite rigid, servos are more or less quite accurately calculated, so actually they are not over sized for the machine but exactly sized. I had some under and overshooting before, but i raised quite much the snappiness of it all.

I started now changing things here. I did that just before reading what you said, but more or less i deducted the same. I lowered panel response time to 1000, raised read lines / not shown here in manual/ to max 3600. Which i assume is the read ahead? and lowered interpolation time to 0.002 , which should give much tighter corners or will lower mechanical resolution? its not clear what they want to say. Just testing it now. If not ok 0.002 i will raise it to 0.01 to see what happens

19634

Boyan Silyavski
16-11-2016, 04:52 PM
Ok. The changes did not work so i reset all back to normal. after all if the controller is capable of 400kz per axis i dont see what the problem could be from secondary details like display and so on.


First i took a look at my drive and motor timing specs and compared with the timing of the controller. Results that this controller is really high spec and the servos must not have any problem with the default setting:

1963519637


So far so good. I include the above line of thoughts just for the sake if somebody needs to understand whats happening with his setup.

Again back to what Dean said, about the pulse. looking at the table below it seemed i should not have had a problem as both in the controller and drives was set to high / step pulse/ . Changed the controller pulse to low and now its working fine. Thanks Dean!


19636


Though i still not get why on controller Z is set differently than X and Y as default? No i have to think of a way to check the correctness of Z . Problem seems to be as till now i had done files where Z has no more than 5 steps, so may be thats why i had not seen the problem. I dont know if it counts that the CAM makes the Z oscillate on the toolpath, i think that counts a a change, so it seems better not touch anything for now.

JAZZCNC
16-11-2016, 05:48 PM
Again back to what Dean said, about the pulse. looking at the table below it seemed i should not have had a problem as both in the controller and drives was set to high / step pulse/ . Changed the controller pulse to low and now its working fine. Thanks Dean!

Your Welcome and it catches lots of people out. Seen people replace drives and motors because of it.
The problem I've encountered often is that while the Manual says one thing the switches on the drives are set opposite and this is probably the case here.?



Though i still not get why on controller Z is set differently than X and Y as default? No i have to think of a way to check the correctness of Z . Problem seems to be as till now i had done files where Z has no more than 5 steps, so may be thats why i had not seen the problem. I dont know if it counts that the CAM makes the Z oscillate on the toolpath, i think that counts a a change, so it seems better not touch anything for now.

Not quite understanding what your saying here Boyan.? If your menaing to check pulse edge (polarity) then it's easy.
Make up G-code file of short back n forth moves ending with move back to Zero. Mark the start position and when done should be back at same place.

Neale
16-11-2016, 05:50 PM
Boyan - I can't quite read the small writing on the "command pulse" timing diagram but I think that it might say that you need a minimum of 3msec between direction change and step pulse. However, in the controller settings, this seems to be set to a lower value (300nsec, 0.3msec). As I say, I might have misread the diagram but it might be worth a quick check to make sure that the timings are OK. Apologies if I am wrong and you have already checked this.

Boyan Silyavski
16-11-2016, 07:46 PM
Neale, i think you are right to note that.

I think they are talking microsecond in manual, not miliseconds, its marked "m" like handwriting. As it makes more sense to me looking at the numbers.



If i am right about that, then:


it says T3 , T7 <0.1ms which in controller is set by default Itime between DIR & pulse 300 ns where 300 ns=0.3ms, so this one seems ok

T4, T5, T6>3ms which in controller is width of pulsesignal(include time of #416)2000 ns where 2000ns=2ms , seems i have to raise that a bit , though somewhere the manual of the controller says: if you dont know better leave default :joker:




Dean, did you check the Rattm controller if software and firmware is the same? If you have time and spare motors / i am sure you have/ could you try what does that mean for the A axis , choose A or B. maybe even if it says degrees it is mm, who knows.

JAZZCNC
16-11-2016, 08:50 PM
Dean, did you check the Rattm controller if software and firmware is the same? If you have time and spare motors / i am sure you have/ could you try what does that mean for the A axis , choose A or B. maybe even if it says degrees it is mm, who knows.

Not exactly sure where to find firmware version. I can see on main screen it says whats below which presume is software version. Can't see any ref to Firmware only this.
Normal Mod
Ver:2016-06-29-81NOR

Not had much time to play with this but I will try to throw some motors on it and try.

JAZZCNC
16-11-2016, 10:56 PM
Ok Boyan thrown some motors on controller and CANNOT make it Slave the motors together. changed all settings and still no Joy.
The A/B selection makes no difference. Setting A pulse to from Pulse/Deg to Pulse/Circ just makes the A motor ONLY spin continuesly with no control over it. Pulse Degree does exactly that moves in Degree increments per pulse.

I'm also not impressed with the Crap Terminal connectors on back what load of rubbish. Tiny holes and half of them won't clamp properly. I see loads of potential for trouble with lose or fallen out wires with these things.!!

Lee Roberts
19-11-2016, 05:13 PM
In the controller, in the last part of the machine parameter you can fond the "interpolation period", set it up at 0,005 and try it, change even the "screen refresh" at not less than 4000, otherwise the screen will slow the cpu, as it not equipped with a graphic card.(you don't need to watch the screen, watch the machine).

Find even the "operating acceleration" parameter and set it up at 500mm is the diagonal interpolated acceleration try it and find a reasonable one for your machine.
Is just a bit of thing to try, maybe it won't help you, but it worth try.....

If you have servos, they are coming with resolver on the back, so your motors know exactly where and when they are at all time.
So, even with strong acceleration they shouldn't loose position... Here the problem: is your Router ridgid enough? Because with long traveling and strong accelerations the structure has the time to stabilize in between the movment, with very short traveling the machine is going into a factor called "structural resonance" and "inverted motion", what that mean? It mean that the axis is called to travel in a direction, but due to acceleration and mass involved the underneath structure is going in the opposite direction, and in a very small piece this factor is noticeable, even more when you are carving aluminium rather than wood, thats why the milling machines are heavy, especially CNC centers. Another thing to check is the connections between the motors and the ballscrews.... check all the mechanic parts first, as per very small pieces and high acceleration you are going to join another world with a high inversion rate, is called "jerk"
A router is a router, and as much as you like it, is shaking and flexible under high torque.....
I would suggest you to lower the acceleration to 300/500mm Min and look if the problem is persistent before retuning all the motors and blame them or the controller.

Regards

Merlin, any updates on the firmware?

Merlin201314
19-11-2016, 06:04 PM
Yes, Benedict is working on a new compiler, but he updated a new mod, go on the website and download it, even the new splash screen is included, is a hard job, but we will do it, in the meantime I am re designing the front of the panel, in a few days I'll post the new job, as I am going to build the Cnc controller panel with the hand wheel embedded and all the buttons..... Hopefully!!

Sent by my tapatalk

Lee Roberts
19-11-2016, 06:49 PM
Yes, Benedict is working on a new compiler, but he updated a new mod, go on the website and download it, even the new splash screen is included, is a hard job, but we will do it, in the meantime I am re designing the front of the panel, in a few days I'll post the new job, as I am going to build the Cnc controller panel with the hand wheel embedded and all the buttons..... Hopefully!!

Sent by my tapatalk

Sweet sounds really good for the DDSC, I look forward to seeing the panel, can never have enough build log pictures so keep them coming !!!

:thumsup:

Boyan Silyavski
19-11-2016, 07:01 PM
For the ones without the link http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,11598.200.html

You are doing great job there guys!

So we better start thinking then what exactly and how to be made better there in the new software.

About the panel and the rubber pad insert for the keys.
We/me and Jeff/ just bought ourselves a new 3d printer / PrusaMk2/ so soon i will be able to print the rubber and the plastic if needed. So feel free to design something better Open Source :-). I will print it , no problem. Though if what you are doing guys works, this will well deserve an Aluminum panel




Now just to heat your heads a bit more::loyal:

By the way there is an manufacturer of very similar/ if not even better board by the looks of it / that only difference is it can not read continuously from USB disc and has line limit. But if needed i can contact them and ask for software. I did not bother before with them as this one seemed more refined.


More info, quotes from emails:


TC55A is conversational programming and TC55B is G code programming.

We do not have English documents about it, but the system supports English operation.

TC55A is basically big version of TC55V and TC55B is big version of TC55H.



me:

Now there is some very important thing. In manual it says:
Electronic Gearing: Numerator : 1-99999,
Denominator : 1-99999
USB: For Importing NC Programs and Boot Page Pictures
Optically Isolated I/O ports
Maximum number of Program Lines: 799
Maximum number of Programs: 99 RAM: 128M

So the question is:
-If i load 100 000 line G code on USB, will it work, reading from USB and executing G code whole program?

What does it mean Maximum number of Program Lines: 799 ????

them:
Sorry, 100 000 will not work.


The manual is old, TC55H can support 999 at max, and TC55B can do 9999

1967219671

Merlin201314
19-11-2016, 09:14 PM
Everything will be open source Boyan, that's why we are here..
i will share DXF and 3D models of course, we are thinking to have the complete panel re designed, let's see what i can do.....

So you guys bought a 3d printer.... well let me tell you, you will need a long time before you print rubber after plastic if is the first printer you have, is not an easy job, it looks like a joke, but when you start printing seriously( i mean accurate models) here is when your stress start :-)), happy head aches to you:beer:
Anyway, if you need help for the printer just ask, i'm happy to help, i'm in the 3d printer world for years, they have no secrets for me.
If you are courious have a look at http://www.thingiverse.com
lots of models and things to learn.
Regards

Merlin201314
23-11-2016, 08:39 AM
PS.
I remember someone saying that the 4 axis is not working/linking to the other axis..
well here is working, have a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pi-ramLLSo

Is a cheap controller, but it has a good potential if we find the way to crack the firmware and add some more features and routines

JAZZCNC
23-11-2016, 09:01 AM
PS.
I remember someone saying that the 4 axis is not working/linking to the other axis..
well here is working, have a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pi-ramLLSo

Is a cheap controller, but it has a good potential if we find the way to crack the firmware and add some more features and routines

Maybe your miss understanding what was meant.? It was me who said doesn't work and I'm talking about Slaved axis. As in two motor/drives on separate outputs working as one axis.
That controller is exactly the same one I have and it DOESNT allow slaved motors. This video is just showing it working as 3 + 1 which the controller will do no problem. The fact they have twin screws means they are using dodgy practise of using one output to control two drives or even worse one drive to control two motors.?

IT DOESNT SLAVE TRUST ME.!!!!

Merlin201314
23-11-2016, 09:05 AM
I apologize Jazz, I wasn't badmouthing anyone, I just missunderstood.... Sorry

Sent by my tapatalk

JAZZCNC
23-11-2016, 09:16 AM
I apologize Jazz, I wasn't badmouthing anyone, I just missunderstood.... Sorry

Sent by my tapatalk

No no didn't think for one minute you was and not jumping on you so please don't take it that way.

Just making clear it's not what was meant and doesn't do slaved axis like people think it does.

Boyan Silyavski
23-11-2016, 10:38 AM
Anyway it was good to know that 4rth axis is working cause just this morning i was wondering after all the hype if 4rth axis could work at all as there was no video.

By the way i forgot to tell that all this time the 3 axis controller was loaded with the latest 4 axis software and apart from 4rth not showing on DRO, everything works fine as you know. I dont know if the 4rth will work actually but just is good to know. Anyway the 4rth axis version and the 3 axis version share same hardware.

Merlin201314
23-11-2016, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the update, where did you get the 4 axis software?

Sent by my tapatalk

Boyan Silyavski
23-11-2016, 10:51 AM
I have 2. The one on the controller i got from Joules, i have one also directly from the manufacturer/ ok, from the agent who contacted the manufacturer for me/. If it can help i will send it to you. That was obtained 2-3 weeks ago.

19696

Corhoin
23-11-2016, 03:50 PM
Hi Boyan, thanks for the file information. It seems that your 4 axis files (most likely located in the /mnt/nand1_1 folder) seem to differ slightly from the ones I've found on MadModder member Benedikt M's firmware dump collection. Especially the files "safez.nc" and "systemLib.nc" seem to have some content in them, in the dumps I've seen these files are empty. Also the translation file "eng" and the "setting" file seem to have a different content, based on the different CRC checksum.

I guess you might want to send both your 4 axis software install packages to Benedikt, it would be extremely interesting to see the content of the differing files! And to see if there's any chance to upgrade the 3 axis box to having one more useful axis... :)

19697

Merlin201314
23-11-2016, 07:04 PM
Boyan , please if you can send me the files would be great, Emanuel063@outlook.com if you can. Thanks a lot!! Just the motion. Out and Linuxrc, the others one are the same. Cheers 🍻

Sent by my tapatalk

JAZZCNC
23-11-2016, 07:23 PM
Boyan , please if you can send me the files would be great, Emanuel063@outlook.com if you can. Thanks a lot!! Just the motion. Out and Linuxrc, the others one are the same. Cheers 🍻

Sent by my tapatalk

I've got the RATTM RMHV2.1 4 Axis controller here are all the files off the controller.

Merlin201314
23-11-2016, 07:25 PM
Hey! Thanks a lot, I'll give them a look now, thank you again

Sent by my tapatalk

JAZZCNC
23-11-2016, 07:53 PM
Hey! Thanks a lot, I'll give them a look now, thank you again

Sent by my tapatalk

Your Welcome. Can I request you post any findings or improvements on this Forum as well Mad Modder. If need any testing done feel free to ask.

Thou can I say the thing needs to be made to work better before wasting time on Graphical improvements etc. First order should be so can use M6 for tool changes.

Merlin201314
23-11-2016, 07:55 PM
I will post all the improvements, and we are looking to add the features of course, M6 is the first one

Sent by my tapatalk

Merlin201314
23-11-2016, 09:07 PM
Jazz, I just tried your software on my controller, all good, but when I'm going to do the tool probe, the controller freeze, and I have to reboot. Is your probe working?
PS. As soon as I reload the old software it works again....

Sent by my tapatalk

Merlin201314
24-11-2016, 10:46 AM
Jazz, did you find out why the "tool offset" are in the parameters list? If yes, have you tried it? If not, what is your thought about? That will help to build the tool change routine/pages for the controller. Thank you
Cheers 🍻

Sent by my tapatalk

JAZZCNC
24-11-2016, 08:04 PM
I've not done anything with this controller other than throw few motors on it to test if it slaved motors for Boyan.

However don't see anything wrong with having tool offsets in list of parameters. After all thats what they are Tool offset parameters.
Having separate page doesn't really affect anything other than slightly easier to access more quickly but in practise once tool lengths are entered they rarely get changed unless tool breaks or new tool. Not big deal to me or worth lot of effort to change how it is now.

Just making the Bugger use M6 will be big step forward. Going for that before anything is what I'd say is priority.

Boyan Silyavski
05-12-2016, 03:16 PM
Just made a short video how to probe Z0 without any setting gauge only having a touch plate of known thickness. As i told before, there are many ways to do it but the simplest way is the best. plus you dont need a setting gauge / though its nice to have one anyway./

In short
-you measure your plate thickness using digital vernier
-make sure you know your back off distance after probing, mine is 5mm
-rest plate on table and hit probe
-once operation is finished you gio and manually input in DRO for Z =probe thickness + backoff distance , my probe is 19.3+5mm=24.3mm
-hit probe again and when operation finishes from now on you can use your touch probe, controller knows your probe thickness
-from now on X0 and Y0 manually via the DRO.
-If you hit the button Zero ALL/ XYZ/ at the same time you have to repeat again the procedure of letting the controller know your touch probe thickness.
-Simple as that, just use slow probe speed~300 or less mm per minute



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6uJ2M4NVY4



Another detail. Seems that the controller screen is prone to scratching even when wiping it gently. Not scratching, but marks are left. To be always perfect, buy 2$ film protector for any mobile, cut it toio screen size with scissors and then unstick the original screen protector.

If you know welding mask LCD disposable screen protector on welding mask, thats what the screen is made from, sth like PTEG plastic. So needs a protection. Its not a big deal, as its not seen when light IS on or until you examine it very closely but better use it protected. Fortunately the keyboard itself seems quite fine. Which was my main concern.



19814

bmuessig
28-04-2017, 02:17 PM
Hello!

I just stumbled over this thread and decided to register an account here.

To introduce myself, I am Benedikt from MadModder / bmuessig.eu.

iocapa and I are working hard on a complete open-source GPL rewrite of the entire software which will take time.
Right now, we are still very flexible. If you have any special feature requests, now is the best time to ask!
In principle many things could still be added and more types of machines could be supported.

Feel free to ask.

Best regards,
Benedikt

BenOZ
12-05-2017, 06:53 AM
Hi all,
Im new here and have recently made a CNC machine using this controller, which i must admit isn't too bad a unit apart from the manual! I'm not a pro by any means and i do this just for a fun hobby. There is a couple of issues i'm working on at the moment and i'm just making sure i'm not one of them!! A question i have though, is how do you program a zero button for this unit? That is, push an external button and all axis' are zeroed?

AndyGuid
12-05-2017, 08:18 AM
Welcome to the forum Ben from a wannabe CNC-er lurking out in the Pakenham neck of the woods.
Roughly whereabouts in Melbourne are you?
Andy

BenOZ
12-05-2017, 08:27 AM
Hey Andy, nice to meet you mate. Yeh, i really do like the building process, somthing really satisfying about building one and seeing it do its thing!....Mate im way over the other side, Geelong

Boyan Silyavski
12-05-2017, 01:55 PM
Hello!

I just stumbled over this thread and decided to register an account here.

To introduce myself, I am Benedikt from MadModder / bmuessig.eu.

iocapa and I are working hard on a complete open-source GPL rewrite of the entire software which will take time.
Right now, we are still very flexible. If you have any special feature requests, now is the best time to ask!
In principle many things could still be added and more types of machines could be supported.

Feel free to ask.

Best regards,
Benedikt

Hi Benedikt,
Please update us with how things are going when you make some progress.

The main feature if possible for the router type machines will be to auto square the gantry. Which implies that A should be able to be linear like Y, the 2 long axis on router. For the moment i have connected 2 drives at the Y and works without a glitch, so that scenario is proven.

Next thing probing on X and Y , similar like Z probing, would be interesting.

For that money i dont expect much more, if one wants rigid tapping and similar, he must look at the 500-1500 controllers. I am quite happy with the price and what it is.


Hi all,
Im new here and have recently made a CNC machine using this controller, which i must admit isn't too bad a unit apart from the manual! I'm not a pro by any means and i do this just for a fun hobby. There is a couple of issues i'm working on at the moment and i'm just making sure i'm not one of them!! A question i have though, is how do you program a zero button for this unit? That is, push an external button and all axis' are zeroed?

Thats how i have it. Push a button and all zeroes/ the DRO/. Not that the machine starts a zeroing procedure.

BenOZ
13-05-2017, 01:50 AM
Yes, but how is it done? How do you wire it up? What are the connections?

Boyan Silyavski
13-05-2017, 06:57 AM
Yes, but how is it done? How do you wire it up? What are the connections?

21615 21616

BenOZ
13-05-2017, 07:49 AM
Much appreciated. Thank you. When I'm done I'll post a few pictures