Troubleshooting non responsive machine- Mach3/Syil x4

[phill05]

Dumb moment sorry - thanks for the input also really appreciate it

Think you have them set wrong this is from a working machine:

[IhateDoug]

Think you have them set wrong this is from a working machine:

Copied yours and still no sign of life


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[Doddy]

Think you have them set wrong this is from a working machine:

Depends entirely on the pin mapping on the BOB - not all are the same.

OP: Let's start from the beginning - you say nothing work. You suggest that you can measure voltage?, so let's concentrate on one signal and see where that takes us.

It would be useful for an image of the input pins, as well.

With all plugged in and ready.

1) Within Mach, can you cause the DROs to change by using the cursor right key?, if not, can you do so with a "G0 X10" on the MDI? If so continue...
2) Within Mach, can you cause the DROs to change by using the cursor left key?, if no, can you do so with a "G0 X0" on the MDI?, If so continue...
3) Connect a meter to the BOB pin for X Axis Direction pin (whatever it's called - unfortunately I can only guess without a clear image of the BOB, but pin 17 if your settings are correct). Connect red lead to X Axis Direction, black lead to 0V. (The X Axis being the screw terminal around the periphery of the BOB).
4) After (2) above, either press right-arrow to increase the DRO (X) value, or enter MDI "G0 X10". Measure and report here the voltage measured at X Axis Direction output.
5) After (4) above, either press left-arrow to decrease the DRO (X) value, or enter MDI "GO X0". Measure and report here the voltage at the X Axis Direction output.

(4) should measure either 5V, or 0V, whereas (5) should measure the opposite. You're basically changing the direction signal from one way to the other.

The purpose of this is to verify a number of things. That there is at least basic signalling from the PC to the BOB. That this is compatible with the BOB (e.g. if the motherboard is using RS232-5V signalling and not e.g. 3.3V), that the cabling is good and that the motherboard printer port is active and working. If you can't get this far then we can start isolating the problem(s).

If you can confirm the expected behaviour at (4) and (5), if you can repeat for the Y axis (pin 8), and Z axis (pin 16) (amending the MDI commands of course, and/or different cursor/pageup/down keys).


From the behaviour that you describe - I'd expect that the voltages measured at the (17), (8) and (16) remain constant throughout. This would certainly describe a fault with the interface from the PC to the BOB.

At this stage I'd really like a close up image of the BOB. The image above suggests a ribbon connected to the board, and another IDC header on the board, I can't see what the relationship with this is, but I'd like to understand if you can possibly try the following:-

6) Disconnect the parallel cable. Short the pin 17 on the DB25 parallel port on the BOB to ground. Measure the X Axis DIR output voltage and record here.
7) Short the pin 17 on the DB25 parallel port on the BOB to +5V. Measure the X Axis DIR output voltage and record here.

As before, between (6) and (7) you should see the X DIR output set to either +5V or 0V (I'm guessing that this will take the same sense as the voltage on the DB25 pin 17 input). If not, then the BOB is not behaving as expected.

8) If not as expected, without shorting any pin on the connector, measure the voltage on pin 17 of the parallel port output pin on the printer cable, plugged into the PC and disconnected from the BOB. Repeat (4) and (5) - again, we expect the measured voltage to change between 0V and 5V.

9) If not as expected, move the measurement to the parallel port on the computer. Pin 17 to PC ground, and repeat. If this doesn't change between 0V and 5V.

... and if that doesn't resolve anything, buy my wife and I air tickets to Brisbane for, say 2 weeks, and I'll bring my meter :)

[IhateDoug]

Depends entirely on the pin mapping on the BOB - not all are the same.

OP: Let's start from the beginning - you say nothing work. You suggest that you can measure voltage?, so let's concentrate on one signal and see where that takes us.

It would be useful for an image of the input pins, as well.

With all plugged in and ready.

1) Within Mach, can you cause the DROs to change by using the cursor right key?, if not, can you do so with a "G0 X10" on the MDI? If so continue...
2) Within Mach, can you cause the DROs to change by using the cursor left key?, if no, can you do so with a "G0 X0" on the MDI?, If so continue...
3) Connect a meter to the BOB pin for X Axis Direction pin (whatever it's called - unfortunately I can only guess without a clear image of the BOB, but pin 17 if your settings are correct). Connect red lead to X Axis Direction, black lead to 0V. (The X Axis being the screw terminal around the periphery of the BOB).
4) After (2) above, either press right-arrow to increase the DRO (X) value, or enter MDI "G0 X10". Measure and report here the voltage measured at X Axis Direction output.
5) After (4) above, either press left-arrow to decrease the DRO (X) value, or enter MDI "GO X0". Measure and report here the voltage at the X Axis Direction output.

(4) should measure either 5V, or 0V, whereas (5) should measure the opposite. You're basically changing the direction signal from one way to the other.

The purpose of this is to verify a number of things. That there is at least basic signalling from the PC to the BOB. That this is compatible with the BOB (e.g. if the motherboard is using RS232-5V signalling and not e.g. 3.3V), that the cabling is good and that the motherboard printer port is active and working. If you can't get this far then we can start isolating the problem(s).

If you can confirm the expected behaviour at (4) and (5), if you can repeat for the Y axis (pin 8), and Z axis (pin 16) (amending the MDI commands of course, and/or different cursor/pageup/down keys).


From the behaviour that you describe - I'd expect that the voltages measured at the (17), (8) and (16) remain constant throughout. This would certainly describe a fault with the interface from the PC to the BOB.

At this stage I'd really like a close up image of the BOB. The image above suggests a ribbon connected to the board, and another IDC header on the board, I can't see what the relationship with this is, but I'd like to understand if you can possibly try the following:-

6) Disconnect the parallel cable. Short the pin 17 on the DB25 parallel port on the BOB to ground. Measure the X Axis DIR output voltage and record here.
7) Short the pin 17 on the DB25 parallel port on the BOB to +5V. Measure the X Axis DIR output voltage and record here.

As before, between (6) and (7) you should see the X DIR output set to either +5V or 0V (I'm guessing that this will take the same sense as the voltage on the DB25 pin 17 input). If not, then the BOB is not behaving as expected.

8) If not as expected, without shorting any pin on the connector, measure the voltage on pin 17 of the parallel port output pin on the printer cable, plugged into the PC and disconnected from the BOB. Repeat (4) and (5) - again, we expect the measured voltage to change between 0V and 5V.

9) If not as expected, move the measurement to the parallel port on the computer. Pin 17 to PC ground, and repeat. If this doesn't change between 0V and 5V.

... and if that doesn't resolve anything, buy my wife and I air tickets to Brisbane for, say 2 weeks, and I'll bring my meter :)

1) Within Mach, can you cause the DROs to change by using the cursor right key?, if not, can you do so with a "G0 X10" on the MDI?
Yes dro changes - machine does nothing

2) Within Mach, can you cause the DROs to change by using the cursor left key?, if no, can you do so with a "G0 X0" on the MDI?
Yes Dro moves with left key (machine does nothing

- Really stupid question and I’ve legit spent hours googling but where are the pins? My board seems to be different. Are they the pins labeled “A””X””Y” or are those limit switch pins?


Really appreciate it and would take you up on that - I’m on Stradbroke island, more beach and less concrete


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[phill05]

Depends entirely on the pin mapping on the BOB - not all are the same. :)

Well I must be very lucky have setup 5 different machines and used the very same setting and they all worked, you live and learn.
Any odds on Lotto this weekend.

[routercnc]

The pins are ultimately the screw terminals on your breakout board. For example in the photo you can see estop and home. It would help if you could upload a photo of the whole board.
You are looking for a screw terminal with the label step and the label direction. These send signals out to the drivers to turn the motors.
So to follow Doddys help touch one probe of the multimeter onto the screw terminal marked direction for the axis that should be moving and the other onto something marked ground. When you use the keys to go left and right that terminal should switch between 0V and 5V.

[Doddy]

Well I must be very lucky have setup 5 different machines and used the very same setting and they all worked, you live and learn.
Any odds on Lotto this weekend.

Lotto?, no, unfortunately. And if I could guess against the odds then I might be bold enough to assume the OP's wiring to the BOB.

Examine https://softsolder.files.wordpress.c...d-overview.jpg for example, that looks to put X Step and Direction onto pins 2 and 14, respectively. The parallel port is configured - not by Mach, but by the utility of the parallel printer interface to provide 12 outputs and 5 inputs. These are hard bound to the whateveritis pins, and most BOBs will present these notionally for particular functions (like X step, X dir), but actually they are only generic inputs and outputs. There's nothing stopping you using a X-DIR for your Z-Step, for example, though you'd be sadistic to try (I did once swap one of the primary axis onto the A-Axis when one output on a BOB failed).

My one issue is that the OP changed many things, but not the BOB wiring (unless he didn't mention that). The pin mapping is... not the last thing that I'd check... but certainly not the first.

I've only had the pleasure of 3 machines, but probably enough architectural changes on two to get close to your five. I know that there isn't a hard pin mapping.

[IhateDoug]

Lotto?, no, I'm keeping that to myself.

Examine https://softsolder.files.wordpress.c...d-overview.jpg for example, that looks to put X Step and Direction onto pins 2 and 14, respectively. The parallel port is configured - not by Mach, but by the utility of the parallel printer interface to provide 12 outputs and 5 inputs. These are hard bound to the whateveritis pins, and most BOBs will present these notionally for particular functions (like X step, X dir), but actually they are only generic inputs and outputs. There's nothing stopping you using a X-DIR for your Z-Step, for example, though you'd be sadistic to try (I did once swap one of the primary axis onto the A-Axis when one output on a BOB failed).

My one issue is that the OP changed many things, but not the BOB wiring (unless he didn't mention that). The pin mapping is... not the last thing that I'd check... but certainly not the first.

I've only had the pleasure of 3 machines, but probably enough architectural changes on two to get close to your five. I know that there isn't a hard pin mapping.

Literally havnt changed a thing - I found the XML file that comes with these and it matches the one I’m using. I’ve literally unplugged it from the power point and unplugged the parallel cable from to the pc and loaded it on to a trailer - moved then plugged it back in again.
Now I think of it the last time I used it it the x axis was jamming and skipping every now and then if that’s relevant.

I’ll be near it in about 15min and will take some picture of the board.



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[cropwell]

The Syil X4s were usually fitted with a Tonman BoB, which I also had on my machine. I gave up with the charge pump. It never worked however I set the jumpers and Mach3. Then the BoB just failed for no apparent reason and I had to replace the BoB and the drivers as the drivers were connected by a ribbon cable. All this is in my post http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7658-...down-like-this.

The point is that if you have the Tonman BoB, you might as well bite the bullet and put in a new BoB and drivers.

[IhateDoug]

The Syil X4s were usually fitted with a Tonman BoB, which I also had on my machine. I gave up with the charge pump. It never worked however I set the jumpers and Mach3. Then the BoB just failed for no apparent reason and I had to replace the BoB and the drivers as the drivers were connected by a ribbon cable. All this is in my post http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7658-...down-like-this.

The point is that if you have the Tonman BoB, you might as well bite the bullet and put in a new BoB and drivers.

I’ll read your post later today, any recommendations on what to replace it with?
Thanks


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