New build with recycled parts on a ridiculous budget 120cm*60cm work area

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Good work, follow rodw with his amendments I think they are correct. Just one point I noticed in the ini file is the z offset I think you have it at 0 it might be better just off 0 so as to not have false triggers.

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Will be doing this morning when I can drag myself back to work, I have no homing switch on the Z so I manually home. Will need to buy bigger energy chain to sort, also need to make a better mounting plate for the energy chain on the Y axis which isn't straight and keeps coming apart. I suppose I can now use the machine to make that bracket but probably just measure, mark and drill.

Very impressed with the cut from the 2 flute 6mm end mill on the laminate I was expecting mega chipping.

Attachment 23644

Because I only clamped one side it wasn't even so the white wasn't milled out properly but it was only a test with some scrap so happy how it came out as soon as my clamps come (Ordered 4 toggles clamps going to use 2020 extrusion across the bed instead of steel.)

Attachment 23645

Need to flatten the mdf bed as well, gong to get a 1/2" trend straight router bit to do this as it will be a lot quicker.

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Need to flatten the mdf bed as well, gong to get a 1/2" trend straight router bit to do this as it will be a lot quicker.

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Be quicker still with a 50mm https://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Surface-Trim.html or similar

It came so fitted it, think I'll put it sideways on though so I access the flip for changing bits easier.
Attachment 23648

Had a find ;)

Attachment 23649

There's 1 more piece to come

60*60*3mm box section steel 2.1m lengths going to use this to upgrade my router so work isn't finished yet lol but it'll take me a few months to raise the money for 25mm Hiwin's, proper R&P for the 2m axis and I want to swap my gantry ballscrew to a 10mm pitch. So plenty of time to play with her for the time being. I'm thinking of taking my gantry and dropping it on a frame made from this. I have loads of 40*40*1.5mm box section I can use for bed supports (Again free, sometimes it pays to pikey everything you see lol even if you sit on it for 3 years)

My favourite price free ;)

This will offset the not free stuff I had to buy lol

ordered a cyclone was going to homebrew but price was too good to bother.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cyclone-P...72.m2749.l2649

and got a vacuum cleaner finally I had 3 2.2kw but wanted something a bit more reasonable to run so gone with a 1.2kw miele with power control can drop it as low as 250w cost free ;)

I noticed that your cy cable to the spindle is not secured in that every time the Z axis moves the cable gets bent at the plug. This is a major fail factor and might destroy the VFD as has happened a few time here. Can you put a supporting bracket from the Z front plate to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Clive S

I noticed that your cy cable to the spindle is not secured in that every time the Z axis moves the cable gets bent at the plug. This is a major fail factor and might destroy the VFD as has happened a few time here. Can you put a supporting bracket from the Z front plate to fix it.

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Yes I can, I had noticed of course but keep forgetting I actually unsoldered it and tried to sort it out but still ended up the same lol.

Luckily there's a lot of scrap kicking around the yard so sure I can find something to do the job or actually desolder it get the cable in properly and resolder.

I had to wire my control box like 4 times lol this is pretty standard for me although I am getting better each time.

After blowing up a transformer it would be good if I didn't blow up the vfd lol.

Every piece of advice you have given has turned out to be the correct choice so I've learnt to heed your advice lol just wish I'd spoke to you before I ordered my ballscrews.

Been ringing round for quotes on steel and it seems for another £100 and with the steel I already have I could make a frame 3m*1.5m quite comfortably with bed supports (No legs). That started me thinking if I buy another 2* 1.5m of 15mm Hiwin rail I could have the end cuts straight and then butt them together to extend the travel. Then I only need R&P for the now 2.7m axis and probably some motor upgrades and I'm good to go. I might even be able to make some legs out the bits of aluminium left over when I strip Betty or from the 40mm steel. I have 20 1.5m pieces of that again free ;)

But essentially I can convert to an 8*4 for under £1k but only with 15mm hiwin's.

I can get nema 34's for free in fact I gave away ~20 last year, I've said it before and I'll say it again check your local scrap yards it's criminal what's being scrapped ;)

Overnight made my decision Betty's getting upgraded but will take me several months at least, what scares me the most is the rack and pinion for the 3m axis someone on here hasa plasma cutter setup this way they are going to learn to hate me lol.

15mm just seems too crap found 3m 25mm Hiwin's for $600+import tax I think this make sense and sell my 1.2m Hiwin's with ballscrews and motors.

Nema 34 the R&P, use a 4nm nema 23 for the gantry and use my existing gantry. Will need to remake every plate but now I have the machine working that's no biggie.

So to that end I spent this months budget on
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112394613868

Now I need to work out how to fit lol, I have a vague plan of fitting the BK15/BF15 upside down with custom adapters I'll make so it lines up with the existing motor mount for the gantry. I also might need to remake a Z axis plate we shall see.

Im envious of your drive (and time.. most of all time)
Arent you atleast curious about your current machines limitations and capabilities?
Understand me correctly now, if you learn more on whats failing on your current build you might get better insight on how to make it better? :)

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Im envious of your drive (and time.. most of all time)
Arent you atleast curious about your current machines limitations and capabilities?
Understand me correctly now, if you learn more on whats failing on your current build you might get better insight on how to make it better? :)

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It'll take me 3 months to scrounge the parts so plenty of time to work out what I want to change but there's 2 things I already know.

I need more travel 1.8*0.8m at least and I need it to work faster a lot faster:)

Nice upgrade!!!

I have missed alot ;) but what speeds are you currently using?

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

I have missed alot ;) but what speeds are you currently using?

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4.5m/min seems to the top speed for the gantry which is where I thought it would be (Screw whip is just over 1000rpm for this screw, 5mm pitch)

The Y axis is a lot speedier been able to run that at 7m/min so far might be able to push it a little further screw whip is just over 2000 rpm for this screw, 4mm pitch,

I'm going to use a 4nm motor on the gantry (2nm at moment) with the 2010 screw.

Of course the Y axis will be turned into R&P when I upgrade but for now if I can the whole machine running at ~8m/min I'll be a happy man.

In theory I should be able to spin the 2010 so I can get 13m/min but that's really down to how accurate is the mounting and how good are the bearings I bought the cheapest screw so the answer is probably not that good lol.

I'm going to go for 2.5m travel on the Y because if I'm going to do it I might as well do it right so I can process 8*4 not that I would ever want to touch that horrible crap I'm a real wood kind of guy.
Also the cost difference is couple of hundred quid now.

As Christian Slater said it's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it just replace with cnc travel ;) Might not be quite as catchy.

I'm using a 2.9ghz I7 to generate pulses not sure where my speed limit will be but I know the controller will need upgrading going to get what Clive suggested as I want to stick with linuxcnc.

7i76e I think but of course I'll order the right one from the States.

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7i76e I think but of course I'll order the right one from the States.

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No need to buy from the States you can get then from Germany or Portugal also the speed of the processor does not effect the pulses as they are generated on the card.

If you change to R & P then it will not cut ally as good. Timber you need to cut fast ally slow and need better precision .

Holy crap batman!
Im hoping I will be satisfied with 5m/m.
It sounds fast.. dont know how fast it will feel like though ;)

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Originally Posted by Clive S

No need to buy from the States you can get then from Germany or Portugal also the speed of the processor does not effect the pulses as they are generated on the card.

If you change to R & P then it will not cut ally as good. Timber you need to cut fast ally slow and need better precision .

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I could do a Dual gantry, been toying with it for a while on a switch so I can use either gantry with shared electronics, PSU, etc & 2 different profiles in linuxcnc. Share the rail, one R&P driven and the other driven by the 2 1m ballscrews. All seperate limit switches will be crazy wiring lol but not impossibly crazy.

When not in use I'll park the spare gantry out the way past the limit switches for the gantry that's working.

Cost is ~£600 with another 2.2kw spindle which is cheaper than building another machine of course and best of both worlds although I can only work one at once of course but since aluminium will very rare but the cost of outsourcing anything I want to do so high I can see it's worth it.

I could keep the 1605 ballscrew I have now for the 2nd gantry after all it doesn't need to be fast I only need fast for wood as my designs will fill the bed fior almost every cut and will be 3d milling 50+ pieces out of every bit of wood this will get old quick. At the moment going to have to cut real wood sheets in 1/2 to process them.

Doing the cam in fusion is getting old quick as well lol at some point will probably buy Vcarve pro.

Dual gantry opens up many possibilities although not with out headaches, but I could pimp it out with AM882's all round (So 8) and run both at the same time and be glad I got that 1kva transformer after all.

This would turn it into 1 1m*1.2m machine and 1 m*1.8m machine so would need 3 setups but opens up considerble time savings for certain things.

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Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Holy crap batman!
Im hoping I will be satisfied with 5m/m.
It sounds fast.. dont know how fast it will feel like though ;)

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It seems fast when you first move it that speed but wait till your cutting lol it's just never fast enough

Attachment 23667

A quick mockup of the Bk15 mount this will space the 2010 ballscrew to align with the existing nema 23 mount for bk12 if I fit it upside down and it will leave 3mm clearance (Instead of 6mm) for the DSG20.

Bought another 10 omron microswitches as well so going to be properly prepared with 14 roller switches lol.

You might like that.
It is a diy handheld MPG to linuxcnc a guy from Denmark post at a cnc group on Facebook. The group is the DIY CNC and the member, Allan Madsen, said that today he is going to provide a link, to where he will post the files, to make it work in linuxcnc.

Attachment 23676Attachment 23677

Excellent work by Allan will have to check it out, I know people have also got PS3 and Xbox controllers working in Linuxcnc for controlling the machines ;)

Having some latency issues with the I7 not geting the performance I should, it could be a few things from what I read up.

But the main candidates seem to be Nvidia GFX card (Need to work out how to turn it off in Linux so I can use the on board, machine is dual boot with windows want the Nvidia card for Fusion.) Possibly SMI, disabling cores and a couple of other things.

Toying with swapping the Y axis nema mounts so it's belt driven 1:2 motor:ballscrew as the 1604's have a critical speed over 2000rpm so I'm hoping I can drive the nema's at 1000rpm and get 8m/min out the screws and drive the 2010 at 1000rpm direct drive so I get 10m/min on the gantry. Resolution will be halved doing this but then the resolution of the 2010 ballscrew is still less.

Using 2010 ballscrew will give positional accuracy of ~0.05mm, slightly better with the 1604 geared 1:2 (Which essentially becomes an 8mm pitch for accuracy purposes) the microswitches I'm using (Omron) have a repeatability between 30-50 microns almost the same as the cheapo inductive sensors most of us use which works out to 0.05mm. So my repeatability on any part is limited to ths it might be better of course but in theory it should never be worse. (Ignoring wear and tear)

I have some 40mm inductive sensors I recovered that run on 48v I got from a large printer I scrapped I suspect these have high accuracy over larger distances, when I googled them they were over £100 a sensor the main reason I kept them lol.

I might have to strengthen the gantry with angle steel ground flat both sides and cnc the holes to bolt in into the T slot so the machine is rigid enough to actually take advantage of the speeds and can my PC generate enough pulses for that speed. I can see a step generator in my near future lol. I'm glad I have a friend who works for a big cnc firm as a foreman and who's job for the first 10 years was grinding ;) He also told me they been binning Hiwin's so he going to see if he can get me a set before they go in the skip, he laughed at my 15mm Hiwin's lol.

Thinking when I upgrade or build new if I don't go servos then going nema 24

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nema-24-S...item1c54c443d4

Good price for 8 wire motor, 4nm

Had a few crazy ideas for upgrading including 2* 2m travel gantries ;)

Still not got dual homing sorted but I did get an engineers square to straighten the gantry (It was well out, which is the technical and scientific term) and was happy to see when I straightened one side and checked the other side it was perfect. I had the machine switched off and rotated one ballscrew by hand.

Recessing the extrusion into the plate really helps in squaring the gantry you can feel it click into place when you've got it right.

I have a 1204 ballscrew, it's a ground THK C3 with matching bearings 450mm long.

I paid £150 for it a few years ago from South Korea, I was wondering what it's good for? I was wondering if I could use it for a Z axis? It would have another advantage that it will mount easier with 15mm Hiwin's but I worry it's not strong enough.

Still floating ideas
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-genera...ared-work-area

This one's a doozy ;) I think linuxcnc is probably capable of driving something like this especially now everything is joints but CAM software could be a bigger issue.

Attachment 23692

I just cloned the gantry not a proper design yet just floating ideas

Is it a twin-head or a duplicator ?

One is hard, other is easy ;)

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Originally Posted by Davek0974

Is it a twin-head or a duplicator ?

One is hard, other is easy ;)

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I have a few ideas how to implement it, what switches I need god knows lol. I would like multiple modes.

1. Clone 2 identical machines ran from a linuxcnc controller, 8 AM882's.
2. Individual 2 sepearate machines how I would run it mostly, eyeing up the ddscv controller for this mode, 1 for my 2nd machine and linuxcnc can run the first machine.
3. If possible 1 linuxcnc controller utilising all 8 axis for a shared area this I see as maybe not possible with my level of skill and cam solutions.

How I switch all this I don't know but it can't be that hard.

I'm sure an inductive sensor can be used on one the gantres as an emergency stop so they don't crash into each other if the programming is haywire.

Had a quote back for 2020 ballscrew, 2m long with fittings 3 of them just under £500 delivered to UK, (Will be £100-£150 in import tax on top). I should probably just build a new router square with 1.8m*1.8m (Going to need a strong gantry) with steppers for my 2nd router I can get some Nema 34's for £5 each off a mate who has a dolab full of them lol for Y and drop a 4nm nema 23 from cnc4you for the X. This is a lot more doable in the short term than dual gantry with servos all round lol. It's Chinese New year so I can't order for a month, well I can but nothing will be posted for a month. So have a month to think about thing before rushing in lol. 1.8m travel is what I'm after having it on both axis would be truly amazing. I've been doing a lot of test cutting now on my machine for the things I want to build and I know I need at least 10m/min cutting speed to stand a chance of making money on it. What I want to build uses 2 types of wood and I actually couldn't fit it on a 1.8m*1.8m bed to cut it in 1 but if I keep the original machine as well then I could run them side by side and make the item in 1 run giving me a fighting chance lol.

I would love to build a dual gantry machine but having spoken to some people on the linuxcnc forums it seems the software just isn't there to take real advantage of it. So in the end I'd be building essentially 2 cnc machines in one frame I could get it to clone easy enough (Parallel port switch) but even that would have dubios advantages as you loose homing on 1 of the machines. After all if I have 2 controllers it's not hard to run the same code on both and then have homing and forget the cloning. I can still see an advantage to have a dual gantry with a shared area if 1 is R&P powered and the other ballscrew and you only work 1 gantry at a time. Would be easy to use a limit switch so if the gantry not in use is not parked then power to the other gantry is off. 1 gantry for speed and 1 for aluminium. They could then share electronics at least if I can find the right switches after all I only need to switch 4 wires for each stepper which would be 2 sets for this setup (X&Z). It very easy in linuxcnc to have multiple profiles for the machine so wouldn't be hard to configure. This way sharing the rail, frame, electronics & controller you're saving a lot of money and floor space to get essentially 2 machines.

Maybe build No. 3 will be dual gantry ;)

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

Attachment 23617

Jumper setting for my AM882's they're all set the same, I hope they're set to autotune SW4 off/on/off twice in 1 second and 8 microsteps, not sure why I'm out dimensionally.

Attachment 23618
Also thinking about clamping

Thinking about cam, although I can CAM simple piecs of fusion most of what I designed to make is in 50+ pieces so looking for something to ease placement of the 50 pieces on a work piece, 2 sided machining and simplifiy the whole process.

I think it's a shoot out between Vcarve pro and Meshcam, leaning towards Meshcam at moment as it's $250

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Have you looked through the add ons available for fusion? There is one to do precisely that. Select the bodies/components you want and the work area and it arranges them all nicely. There is some quite cool DLC stuff for fusion.

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Originally Posted by Snapper

Have you looked through the add ons available for fusion? There is one to do precisely that. Select the bodies/components you want and the work area and it arranges them all nicely. There is some quite cool DLC stuff for fusion.

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No I hadn't but I am now ;)

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/30/eu...ebar_expansion

Did a lot more test cutting I'm happy the dimensions are all correct but have managed to destroy a 6mm 2 flute end mill drilling through hardened steel not surprised the steel killed 4 cobalt bits in a drill press lol the end mill actually made it through at 24000rpm with a lot of pecking. It longer longer flattents it grooves lol.

Got myself some microswitches from China crazy cheap going to test the repeatability vs the original omron's that these are a clone of.

Attachment 23712
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5X-Micro-...72.m2749.l2649

Came in less than 7 days

Attachment 23714

Attachment 23715
Another step closer

How low should I set the dust shoe?

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

Did a lot more test cutting I'm happy the dimensions are all correct but have managed to destroy a 6mm 2 flute end mill drilling through hardened steel not surprised the steel killed 4 cobalt bits in a drill press lol the end mill actually made it through at 24000rpm with a lot of pecking.

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Why would you even attempt to do that unless you just like killing endmills and wasting money.?. . . Dumber than Dumb to me:stupid:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Why would you even attempt to do that unless you just like killing endmills and wasting money.?. . . Dumber than Dumb to me:stupid:

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Too true lol but I didn't mine testing it to destruction I bought 10 of them from Banggood for £3 each, I also bought load of other size carbide 2 flute end mills, ball mills for now to play with. I got myself a couple of trend 2 flute cutters as well and some v groove bits.

Pretty unsure what I want for woodworking but figured one day I'll probably want to make my own aluminium plates so get some 2 flutes end mills for now, I picked myself up a compression bit which is not ever going to cut anything but ply.

Eventually I want to be cutting Oak, Walnut, Mahogany, Beech and whatever else I can get my hands on that's not pine and not reprocessed wood. I think I'll invest in some proper cutters first lol.

I also want to cut polycarbonate.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

Got myself some microswitches from China crazy cheap going to test the repeatability vs the original omron's that these are a clone of.

Came in less than 7 days

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Why bother.? About much use chocolate fireguard as home switches and that's the only reason to test repeatability. Wouldn't even trust them to turn light on in my fridge let alone limit switches. . . Junk = Hair pulling.!!

They'll be ok for what I want to use them for, not positional accuracy lol.

Started on my clamps
Attachment 23719
the 2 pieces will be bolted together with M4's a T nuts, then the ends drilled for M6 so I can bolt into T nuts in the 10mm track. Idea is I'll have 2 flat surfaces braced and all 4 corners. So I'll make 2 of these cost from KJN £35.

Will only work for rectangular stuff but that 100% of what I want to cut ;)

I ground the corners so they would sit flat when supporting the piece. They're adjustable of course so you can support any size piece and they work over the whole travel of the machine. Might add some toggle clamps.

Now I need a good table saw to prepare the wood on.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

Now I need a good table saw to prepare the wood on.

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A table saw is the 3rd machine used to prepare lumber, after a jointer and planer, or whatever you guys call them over there. :witless: (surfacer?)

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Originally Posted by Ger21

A table saw is the 3rd machine used to prepare lumber, after a jointer and planer, or whatever you guys call them over there. :witless: (surfacer?)

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I want the surfacer ASAP (We just call them planers or sometimes thicknesser's) but my supplier for timber supplies it surfaced both sides so I can put it off for a little while.

My friend also has a really good one I could borrow at a push but it's massive 3 phase thing so don't fancy trying to move it but he has offered to lend it me more than once. He also has a window making table saw I might buy off him which has crazy travel and full slides all round with dual blades for cutting laminates. The problem is is far too big lol, I have considered a vertical wall saw as well B&Q style.

Attachment 23727

One clamp is finished but not got enough m4's 20mm to finish the other one, need a trip to toolstation.

You can see how I intend to do it though, hope it works ok ;)

There's a 7mm gap under the clamp at the moment but going to drop 6mm MDF on top of the 18mm so the gap will be 1mm. I'm also considering ways to apply downward pressure in all 4 corners as well for maximum clampage ;)

These look uber cool
https://www.rapidonline.com/VEX-Meca...SABEgK4x_D_BwE

Have no idea how I would use them except to make a robot to deliver me tea ;)

Attachment 23766

My ballscrew came (3 weeks, no import tax) it's a lot heavier than the 16mm ballscrew it will replace, the motor on this axis I recovered so unsure of nm but it's the same size and weight to within a couple of grams of my 2nm motors. It's a 2010 screw with BF15/BK15's I have to have a good think if I should fit it to Betty or use it for an 8*4 build. If I do use it on Betty I'll play it by ear if I need to upgrade the motor.

Attachment 23796

Clamps are working nicely now ;)

Going to use Knurled head bolts so I can adjust tool free, will greatly reduce the time needed to set the clamps up.

These are for the T slot corners
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M4x25mm-C...EAAOSw4HNaTqx1

These are for bolting into the frame of the cnc
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282550095914

will slum it with A2's and an allen key until they arrive.

Also will change the 2020 on the bottom to 2040 this will let mill closer to the edge of the part
Attachment 23799

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Attachment 23803

2 flute carbide end mill, what bit do I need to get a better finish (Ripping) or it speeds? This piece of wood is at least 60 years old mate found it in a pile of wood his dad bought in the 1950's at auction. This piece of wood was far from flat lol. This is only pocket clearing with no finishing pass.

Also ordered a few
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262649813967

so I can have the most common collets I use fitted to save time when swapping tools.

I dream about the day I get to have these problems :D
This is just a guess but have you tried a downcut bit? As you are not cutting straight through it should leave a good finish on the topside?

As Robert said ,down cut bit, slower feed and............ put self adhesive tape at the side you cut, after the cut remove it and you will have a cleaner cut.