yes it is one of these i am just going to take a pic of it and send,, back in a min
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yes it is one of these i am just going to take a pic of it and send,, back in a min
I should say - that rotating the knob and you get the noise (but not the rotation) is kinda promising. Though we should limit the number of faults we stress the motor/VFD to. It does suggest at least an approximation of correct behaviour.
There's a a few more checks to try - but first I'd like to bottom exactly the error message (as above). Or, just confirm that the error is "e-stop" and we can consider that the manual above is inconsistent with the VFD - and move to reject that.
Attachment 28803
looks like E.FoP to me ,, so sorry i just took it it was the way it was wrote to say estop
louise
and i must add i can touch it with no probs but pete gets static from it
Okay, if I was a betting man that's probably the one I'd have put my money on.
Now you're worrying me. Sorry, quick reply just to suggest for now not to operate this until we try a few more things.Quote:
Originally Posted by petesos
ok no prob
Please describe "get static" - normally a static shock dissipates very very quickly - an immediate jolt followed by nothing. Does Pete get anything more sustained? (lasts more than a fraction of a second)?
EDIT:
Sorry, and from touching what?
When the spindle on/off rocker switch is off nothing happens when i rub my palms over the bed of the cnc or my arms .But when i switch it to ON and i rub my hands on the same part of the bed i can feel some static but when i put mt forearm on the same place i get i good old jolt from it .If i wear my slipers there is no problem but in bare feet is when it happens
Okay, let's not do that again. :-)
this is louise back and at this point very tempting
So, some of the bits of information that I'm thinking about:
Spindle On/Off appears to present power to the spindle motor. But also there's some current flow into the metallic frame of the machine - resulting in a light shock sensation. The VFD is indicating a fault with the motor drive output - notionally a short circuit, but it could be through a return earth.
I this point I'm reluctant to support you probing around because my thoughts are that the machine is electrically unsafe. There's an amount of testing you can do with the machine unplugged - but I need to ask if you have a DMM (multimeter) and are confident with the use of one. All testing will be done unpowered.
I blew my multi meter a few weeks ago and am confident using one , but i also remember when i removed the cover of the black box VFD to take photos to post i un plugged it from the mains supply but there was a red neon light flashing on the BOB even though there was no power lead connected and even after 30 minutes it was still flashing so i am now asking myself in the name of safety should i just write to the company and say replace the box as there is an issue of a thousand pounds exchanging hands. your thoughts would be appreciated on this
I think if that avenue is open, that would be an eminently sensible thing to do.
Explain the Error Code on the VFD and the shock experienced from touching the metalwork of the machine.
You could chase down the fault, replace bits, etc, but at the end of the day this is still the suppliers responsibility.
The red flashing neon (LED?) could be the BoB powering from the USB interface - if still connected to the computer. If so, I wouldn't worry too much and wouldn't pollute the conversation with the supplier with that bit of info.
Just goes to show that us blokes are more sensitive souls.Quote:
Originally Posted by petesos
I keep throwing the radio into the wife's bath but she never feels a thing :-( Maybe I need new batteries.
Just done a personal test on the machine and results are as follows.
To start with everything was wired up when it arrived except i had to bolt on the stepper motors.
So with the machine turned ON and like i said i get static and a shock if i rub my arms on the bed
If i disconnect the spindle with the machine turned ON i get no static and no shock on my forearms.
So this would indicate to me that it must be a faulty spindle , so my question is would a faulty spindle with these issues give a code like we have been getting
Entirely possible. My thoughts are varied but includes insulation breakdown or stray wire from phase pin on the connector to the spindle housing.
I'd pull it apart, but I wouldn't recommend others to try.
The next test was to be a continuity test between the phase outputs on the VFD, then upstream to the spindle harness then the pins on the spindle, as well as a visual check on the terminal wiring but, again, I wouldn't recommend this if a replacement is an option.
:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::h ysterical::hysterical:Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
Classic
The Mrs will be using the machine a lot when i am at work and although its a temptation to let her carry on messing with it especially the 3 phase sideQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
i think its best to shut it down and request another spindle be sent .
I truly thank you for all your help with this matter and i appreciate the input
Thank you
Thank you all
Pete
that's a "Nowforever A100 series" VFD just had a quick look but the one sight that mentions they had it was down. I have the D100 series. hope this helps (PS was still looking but apparently rare)
Attachment 28824Attachment 28825
Got the new spindle come today at last , but as you can see from the photos the old spindle has 4 wires connecting it to the plug but the new one has only 3 so is the 4th wire and earth and it just a case of soldering No 1 wire to pole marked 1 and so on , am not sure on this bit , any ideas please.
And the new spindle is a 1.5 kw as the other was a 800w one so could i encounter any problems using the more powerful 1.5 kw spindle
Okay, those two images are the old and the new spindle?... okay, can see the 800W and the new 1.5kW - makes sense.
The bit that's confused me is that these are 400Hz motors, and the image from the VFD that you provided on the first page of this thread shows that the VFD is rated from 0~300Hz. And the best I can tell from a close-match on the part-number to the NowForever A100 manual (pdf randomly found online) - that's likely rated at around 750W.
So... I have to ask... who's provided the replacement spindle - was this the original machine vendor?, your last post or so was talking about going back to supplier for a replacement machine?, spindle? If so, did they just supply the 1.5kW spindle?
Hi Doddy
Yes i asked the supplier of the cnc to replace the spindle and he told me to go ahead and order one and he will pay for it so that is what i did , i sourced a spindle and sent him the specs on it and he said thats ok go ahead and buy it and i will refund you the cost of the spindle and this he has done
I cannot recommend using that new spindle with the VFD that you have. The limited frequency range I can handle (it just means a lower maximum RPM - 18k RPM), but the lower power drive means that you carry significant risk of damaging the VFD.
There are settable parameters on the VFD that allow you to set motor current - but my feeling is that these are used to trigger the over-current protection, not to limit the motor current.
The problem now is that you've sourced the spindle - the supplier may be reluctant to support any subsequent change.
...unless anyone else knows more about the VFD motor-current settings?
Understood Doddy
What surprises me as you have so rightly pointed out the capacity of this VFD is rated at 300Hz yet the spindle that came with the machine is rated at 400Hz.
Why would the company send a boxed machine ( brand new ) with a vfd that is not even rated to handle the spindle they put in the box .
So i must ask what sort of price is a VFD box that would handle this 1.5 spindal
Understood Doddy
What surprises me as you have so rightly pointed out the capacity of this VFD is rated at 300Hz yet the spindle that came with the machine is rated at 400Hz.
Why would the company send a boxed machine ( brand new ) with a vfd that is not even rated to handle the spindle they put in the box .
So i must ask what sort of price is a VFD box that would handle this 1.5 spindal
Would the 100Hz short fall in the vfd make much of a difference to the spindle.
So am now thinking shouuld i go and buy another vfd box to run this new spindle
The frequency is not much of an issue - the spindle is typically a 2-pole motor, which basically means each complete 3-phase cycle1 = 1 revolution. So at 300Hz (300 cycles/sec) = 300 revs/sec. 60 secs in a minute = 18000 revs/min. If you drive at 400Hz, 24000 revs/min. Yes, you can drive the motor at 18000 rpm or 300Hz - that works.
With the original spindle - the VFD is rated correctly for the 800W spindle (or thereabouts).
The problem is the new spindle is 1500W, which is likely to damage the VFD. That you can't spin the spindle as quickly as its designed is another issue, but wouldn't damage either spindle or VFD. Why would the supplier provide that VFD?, you'd have to ask them, but usual suspect would be cost.
You ask what sort of price for a suitable VFD - that's very much down to what you want to pay. You can get a quality VFD for - I don't know, several hundred quid. You can get a cheap one for fifty quid, that the advert caveats for low-loads only (which worries me). The usual suspect often used is a HuanYang VFD - not the best, but swamped the market with an affordable solution that many of us bought (the market is currently swamped with cheaper versions). Caution is needed with the HuanYangs as the Chinese are known to knock off their own knock-offs, and the suggestion is there are counterfeits out there. For that reason I'm not going to link any because I don't want the responsibility of pointing you at something that could be wrong.
But, to try to be helpful, the basic spec you're looking for is:-
220VAC single phase input, 50Hz
220VAC three phase output, 0-400Hz
1.5kW (higher is okay, lower is not)
Can i ask you Doddy
Am i just as well buying a new 1.5 vfd box and running the spindle from that , separate from mach3 as i need to move on and start machining the urethane bushes and sort out the cost with the supplier later , i see you can get the 1.5kw vfd box for 50 quid or so
Sorry only just seen this post
Thank you DoddyQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
That is plane and simple to me and understand your concern about the cheap vfd .
now to start thinking about this
Pete, sorry, this appears to have been a less than ideal introduction to CNC.
A word of caution, particularly buying a spindle separately to a VFD, you will likely need to configure the VFD for the spindle - that's the next hurdle. I could suggest contacting the spindle supplier to ask if they have a suitable ready-configured VFD that is affordable.
Just a thought.
Hi DoddyQuote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
Just seen this ,,,bugger .never mind onwards and upwards.
Here is a few photos of the VFD that i purchased today , I bought this one as i didn't want to go and spend a load of money on a real good one yet as i would like to see if this set up works first and if it is viable .
The wire for the spindle was marked from 1 to 4 to start with so i soldered Wire 1 to pin 1 . Wire 2 to pin 2 and so on ( this was on the socket for the spindle.
And using my tester on the connectivity setting i tested each wire and connected them as follows
I connected the No 1 wire to the V
No 2 wire to the W
No 3 wire to the U
Then i pressed run and turned up the speed and at H 16 an error message came up.
any ideas please
Attachment 28849Attachment 28850
Forgot these
...okay...
I'll take a look tomorrow night. Hopefully you're getting no shocks off this - but without configuring the VFD I'm not surprised that you've got errors. Try having a look at the manual (a link would be useful if available online - VFDs are all different). Try not running it until we have the VFD configured,.
Did you set the VFD parameters to match your spindle ie: Voltage, current, freq, etc. If not this could be your problem as the defaults may not match your spindle.
I don't know this VFD and don't have a manual to see the fault codes but the usual suspects for fault codes on startup or slowdown is too fast Acceleration or deacceleration settings.
If you have them set to accelerate too quickly and you call for a high RPM then the VFD try's to get to speed in the set time by dumping high amounts of current into the spindle and this trips a Fault because it pushes higher than the set parameter. Likewise if you haven't setup the VFD parameters and it's on the default which is often set low the same will happen.
Also the poles the poles 2 or 4, Just a thought. Need the manual
Thanks all
Will photo the manuals
Sorry guys got an early 4.00 am start tomorrow need to get a bit of kip
...So the H016 is some indication of speed (Hz?) - what was the error code?Quote:
Originally Posted by petesos
Also... did the spindle start to spin?, or at least grumble a bit?
...and have you seen this post...
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/12842...eters-Settings
...I've not reviewed it in detail - but superficially it looks good.