Fun fun fun ...
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15598&stc=1
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15599&stc=1
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Looks like you're making reasonable progress.
.
One thing I meant to mention in my last post, is are you sure the coolant pump will run on single phase? Just because it's marked to work on 240V, it will most likely be for 3 phase 240V.
AC induction motors that run from single phase require a start or run capacitor, whereas 3 phase don't, as well as having different internal coil wiring, so it's highly unlikely the same motor will run from both 3 phase and single phase.
Oh, not sure actually. Will leave it for now, will try it later and see. Else a small VFD might be required.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
For the coolant pump you will need to reset the connections in the motor input to delta and run it from a single phase 240v to 3 phase 220v inverter, as it will be set to star to run of 3 phase 380 - 415v atm.
The spindle drive has a connector block 1-7, 1 is the 10v supply you can leave this alone, 2 (min) is common for the 0-10v input, 3 (i/p) is the 0-10v input to control the speed. So pins 2 and 3 are the 0-10v input for the sprint board.
PS. these connections have a high voltage present on them so do not touch them, or use a grounded 0-10v signal as this will damage the sprint board. You must use a dc isolated 0-10v signal to run this drive.
Connections 5 and 7 are the run command and need to be connected together to run the drive, this is done by energising the SGR (spindle go relay). All other connections can be left alone.
Thanks. How do I do this isolation?Quote:
Originally Posted by i2i
The CS Labs mentions this, is this the same thing?
"Another important assumption was simplicity of installation. CSMIO/IP-A does not require any external electronics for proper operation. Inputs/outputs signals are inside optically isolated, filtered, protected against short circuit, overheating etc. Of course, all I/O signals are adjusted to industry standard 24V. The device is enclosed in a compact cover, mounted on a DIN-rail, what makes that mechanical and electronic installation in a control cabinet takes less time and is even simpler. "
Mmmm, that's for the signals, not power, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Are the connections not 4 and 5 for enable? I can see relay SFR and GR there needed to enable. Connection 7 on mine looks like one of the tacho connections.Quote:
Originally Posted by i2i
Either way can be used, 4 and 5 or 5 and 7 depends on the application. When the tacho option is used 6 and 7 are used for this and 4 and 5 are used for the spindle run, if yours is wired that way use 4 and 5. The guard relay will be in the circuit to limit the operation of the spindle if the cover is up, but the sgr would still be the relay that connects 4 and 5 on the sprint board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
PS. sfr may have replaced sgr.....edit...... Looking at the other photos sfr has replaced sgr, and common practice with denford machines is to control the relay on the ground side. To the left of the sfr is the srr, this reverses the spindle by changing the polarity to the motor.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by i2i
A bit stuck at the moment. Have wired in the Y encoder but a bit of confusion about whats needed next. I know I need 0V and 10V Ref but a bit confusing as I also have an enable option. Going to power up now and see if I can get something moving, still need to config the CS Labs and install Mach, so still a bit to go yet I think before I can get anything moving.
I managed to get 110V, need to see whats holding out the main contactor now, must be an E stop or similar.
Connect the enable on drive to an output on IP-A and set the Enable 1-6 Output in Mach3 to port10 pin(which ever used). You can connect all drives to same pin to save outputs if you like.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
This will enable the drives when Mach is Reset and disable when Mach isn't.
If you want an extra layer of safety then run this signal thru your E-stop relay. So Enable can only happen if E-stop not pressed. This way the Axis won't be enabled even of Mach is reset( Which it shouldn't if E-stop is done correctly)
So I need to simply bridge between terminal 14 and 15 of the IRTA Drive. What function do I use on the CS Labs unit? Analog Out? Does this push out a voltage or does it simply close a circuit and work as a softswitch?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
If I look at the analog out options, I have Analog output 0 (0-10V on pin 7) and Analog output 1 (0-10V on pin 8). I would have thought I needed to use the digital outputs? Sorry, a little bit confused, just want to 'make' a connection between 2 points.
Actually, from the 15 pin breakout, i dont have a wire to allow a bridge. Something else is holding out the DER relay, need to find that.
This could be changed later but needs rewiring.
OK, DER Relay working, it was the door latch holding it out.
Drives enabled, no movement yet. Not sure how to configure anything related to steps or similar, do I need to with a servo?
OK, Y moves when I push in the DER manually. Not sure why - I dont know if the machine is trying to home or something else. If I restart Mach 3, does it 'forget' what it was told before?
Glad ive got movement, not sure whats impacting DER relay yet. It was the door latch, thats sorted, something else is now holding it out. Looking to try and reverse the direction, where is the 'jog wheel' in Mach 3? Ive seen a pic of one, is it a plugin?
press tab on the keyboard
Thanks, had seen that on a forum but it did nothing :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by i2i
Checking again. So much easier to understand with Step / Direction ....
you may be on the limits for any of the three axis, that would keep the estop off.
I think so too. Im trying to move it to the centre to be sure Im not at a limit switch but I cant get it to go Y +, only Y -.Quote:
Originally Posted by i2i
I am finding this saga very interesting.:applause: Keep up the good work .. Clive
LOL, once its sorted, its easy. Still a lot of stuff to understand but getting there. Movement is an achievement, even if I cant fully control it yet ;pQuote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Now, need to understand all the things that trigger DER relay and then how to reverse direction on these 'analog' servos.
If it's moving on it's own without being commanded then Reverse the Encoder direction in the CSlabs plug-in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
with the cover, unscrew the tab that locks into the guard solenoid from the cover and leave it in the guard solenoid.
Chaz to many over lapping questions it's going to get confusing and dangerous if not careful.!!
Regards the Outputs it's Digital output you need not analog.
Analog is only for controling devices that need 0-10V Also don't confuse the Motor Analog outputs which +/- 10V with 0-10V.!! . .. Very easy done.
Regards motor tuning and setup then yes you still need to set this up. You'll need to know the Encoder resolution, any gearing ratio and the Pitch of the ballscrews to workout the correct steps Per unit in Motor tuning.
Thanks, as suspected.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I think I have the encoder details from the manual for the drives but not the rest, will need to try and work it out somehow. Are these values entered into Mach 3 or the CS Labs unit?
Does anyone know where terminal 140 comes from that feeds the DER? 60, which is the other side of the coil (0V) is common.
It's entered into Mach3 Motor tuning in the Steps per setup. Your encoder probably be 1024ppr and quadrature so 1024x4,Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
So steps per Calc will be 4096 x (Any Ratio) / (Pitch) . . . . . .Ie 4096 x 2 (2:1 ratio) / 2.5mm pitch = 3276.8 Steps per Unit
Also you'll probably need tune the Position/ Vff PID settings in the Controller for best performance. Provided the Velocity PID settings are setup correctly in the Drives them selfs then the Cslabs Auto PID tuning will most likely take care of this for you. It's in the Plug-in Config.!!
ADVISE YOU RTFM BEFORE doing this.!!!
OK, so solved the 140 feed to the DER. It comes from the X axis wiring and is not part of the Y or Z. To enable, this pin needs to be taken to 0V..
Can I double check something, for the 0-10V Analog input, this shows using 1 and 14 for the first axis. On the pic below, the left hand side is the wiring of the drivers.
Is VRef- 0Volt or something else?
I assume VRef+ is the 'up to 10V'?
Are my red lines below correct to show how they should join?
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15600&stc=1
Ok well kind of right but your needing ANALOG +/-10V OUTPUTS for the Channel(axis) your using.! . . . It's not 0-10V ANALOG INPUTS they are very different things.!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
I realise you probably know this but it's these little details and wrong INFO back to us here that can get confusing and you in BIG trouble if we do and your letting out Magic smoke.!
Vref - = Negative Voltage ie: -5v = right direction at half Motor rpm
Vref + = Positive Voltage ie: +5v = Left direction at half Motor Rpm
Manual will show you which pins are for Negatve and Positive for Each Channel(axis). Careful you don't Mixup the GND because the Channel GND's are different to Analog input GND's on same connector.!
OK, have some success. Long story ...... dont trust things till you have opened the connector and verified each pin.
Argh the old pin shuffle gotcha trick.!! . . . Got me too many times. My prefered way of converting is to rip the guts out and start again. It's often quicker than chasing dodgy wiring and connectors.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Really liking the progress on this. Great job. If you decide to sell it make sure there are crowd control barriers in place.
I have 2 Triac VMC's and a Cyclone and all are great machines. i2i is the man if you have any questions on the Triac. Its quite possible he may have designed them lol.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1q...jF1bokwPgJQWnA
Thanks. Those your vids? Watched a few of them before and after buying my Triac.Quote:
Originally Posted by fidia
So, had movement last night. Now I have a machine determined to go max X Y Z + in all directions and I cant get it to come back from that. I cant engage soft limits on Mach 3, says I am no longer able to use that as I have gone past the extreme limits. If I hold in the axis override button on the Denford, it just keeps going more + in all directions. When I try and jog to -, eventually I get a ePid fault.
Argh.
Sorry, its gone to - on all directions. Trying to move to +. For reference, I am not using any limits wired to the CSLabs yet, its still using wired through its normal E Stop etc for max overlimit etc.
This is why you should just concentrate on one area at a time and not try to get everything working in one go. E-stop is all you need at first for safety until you have the machine moving correctly and under full control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Then you can start introducing Limits, Homes etc.
Turn off Mach softlimits for now until you have it working correctly. The messages will be because you probably haven't homed but you have enabled the Home inputs so Mach doesn't reset Machine coordinates to Zero when you push Ref all like it does when they are Not enabled.
Now The Machine coordinates will only be reset to Zero when mach see's the input assigned to that Axis change. With you jogging around etc you will now be well outside Soft limits hence the message.
Thanks. I had X and Y working ok last night. Not sure what I did since but double checking all again.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Did you use the PID tuner.? If not then chances are your EPid fault is because of following error.!
Nope, not done that yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
So the problem seems to be that it tried to home and went past the limits. I cant get it back from that now cos it thinks its hitting them on the way back. Ideally I can move the servos manually by hand to reset but difficult to get to them.
I also need to check the steps. I believe its on 1024 ppr but difficult to confirm this as I need a tool to login on the drive to check. Its a 5mm leadscrew all round from what I can tell. The ratio amount and the quadrature value, how would I know these?
Also, what's the easiest way to reverse the direction of the motors?
OK, X and Y are working, inverse direction but I can do basic G Code. The measurement however is 3 times too much. Have changed the steps / mm value in Mach3 but no difference. Its doing a 60mm square instead of a 20mm.
Something not right with Z when I connected it back up.
OK, I hadnt saved the steps setting. Sorted now, very close to spot on but still having issues when I connect Z. Without Z, the machine will work fine even though + - are reversed (according to the stickers on the mill). I tried to get Z to PID tune but its not happy and the mill starts to move the other axis without me asking. Odd. Not sure if I am getting some cross talk on the wires, ive checked all the wires a few times.
So, this might not look like much, but i can draw with some gcode.
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=15603&stc=1