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So I bought one of these and finally tried to install it today. Nothing works. Ive tried every option. The state of P17 doesnt change, even if I press E Stop whatever. It could be that the board is damaged.Quote:
Originally Posted by cropwell
Are you able to indicate what the wiring should look like from a board like this please?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Axis-Cnc...item3d32792356
http://www.gbeshop.com/InfoBase/SAVE...s_fw_r2_c1.jpg
Sorry Chaz, but I can't get my CNC fired up at the moment. First, you need the relay jumper disconnected and then in Mach3 you need to command the P17 with an output set to pin17 and that output linked to M8 on the Spindle Control screen, so then M8 in your code sets coolant on and M9 turns it off.
You can use any spare axis pulse or direction pin to do the same thing btw, if you want to use the onboard relay for spindle control, which is hard wired into P17 when the jumper is on.
PM me your Mach3 configuration file (you will need to copy it and change the extension to .txt) and |I will have a look at it. I can't remember exactly where we got on this.
Cheers,
Rob
In the meantime I will look at my CNC PC to see why it is not firing up properly !!!! - Have looked at it system SSD is dead, will need to rebuild Operating system and reload software --- S H I T -- !!!!
Thanks. Ill get the config later (its in the garage).Quote:
Originally Posted by cropwell
I tried with the relay setting on and off. I did damage the board however previously when I miswired the on board relay. Cheap enough to replace. I then made Output 3 try both pin 16 and 17 but nothing changes the state of them. Im using output 3 for coolant and triggering it doesnt change anything. Perhaps I need another board first. Id love to go CS Labs as its something I understand but too pricy for a machine ill likely be selling.
Have you put power on the 12-24v power supply as well as the pc 5v.Quote:
Nothing works. Ive tried every option.
As I think that the inputs are powered from the 12-24v supply (don't quote me though)
I am sure you are right Clive, the 5v from the PC is only to power the input optos. I have the board in front of me and the 12v track is on the top face and disappears under components, so I can't trace it through.
(Chaz) The board you show as an example on eBay is overpriced, you can get them from China for less than a fiver and not much more than that from a UK supplier.
Rob
Rob do you mean the outputs just for clarityQuote:
the PC is only to power the input optos
Ah, no. There is a Ground, VCC and two inputs. What voltage goes into the trigger (5V?) and 24V into VCC?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Probably, but I am sure they do more than just provide clarity :nevreness:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
I am up to my neck in computer problems at the moment. The computer says press any key to boot from CD.... and I can't find the 'ANY' key - none of the ones on the wireless USB keyboard work and I haven't got any other sort.
Are you talking about the relay board ? Because if you look at the back of the BoB it is clearly printed on. The relay board takes GND, 5v on Vcc and the two inputs are 5v max.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
So to be sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by cropwell
Relay board has 4 connections.
One is Ground, once is VCC and two are triggered inputs (5V)? The VCC is 24V? If that is the case, I did not connect 24V.
5 V +on Vcc on the relay board or you will burn it out !
Chaz wrong time of night for sense:distracted: But I think you need to supply the bob with two power supplies one 5V and the other 12-24V before you will get any sense from it. Those bob's are £3,20 from ebay (China) inc PoP
Attachment 21063
So, is this correct? If so, assuming the PC setup is right, my BoB is broken. P17 never changes state / voltage.
If you have set up the BoB OK with 12-24v GND and 5v from the PC using the USB cable AND the jumper on the BoB is off, AND ports and pins are set properly in Mach3, - then if your BoB is working it should work.
At the moment I am very pissed off that I have to rebuild my system from square 1 as after the hard drive failure, I have to reload all software. Fortunately I backed up all the work files but the Mach3 .xml has been lost and I thought I had a backup, but can't find it, so it looks like I have to go back to basics. I was up till 4:30 this morning trying to sort it, so I think today will be a 'FCUK It' day.
Thanks. Sorry to hear about your issues. I try and backup mach3 often for the same reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by cropwell
Pretty sure the BOB is screwed. I tried to use its relay output and did something wrong. So a new one should be ordered I believe.
Fcking electronics.
New BOB, all works. Awesome.
I then start to permanently solder the wires. I solder the 0V Gnd wire, sparks. Seems like my 24V PSU (x 2) have taken offence to me soldering whilst they were powered and both are now faulty. Really surprised. On my machine, they simply dont power. On the bench, it trips a 16A breaker once the PSU powers. Odd.
Ive got two of these units. 24V 5A each it seems.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERO-MONOV...-/281969319232
Ill contact the manufacturer to see if they can look at them or repair.
One PSU powers two of these - http://jmcmotion.en.made-in-china.co...ler-3m860.html - suppose could go higher voltage?
The other powers the BOB and a very small stepper driver for the turret.
Argh.
Soldering the 0V/GND should not of had that effect.
Is your soldering iron grounded properly?
Chaz most soldering irons are earthed so if you touch any live point you are basically shorting it to earth.. also those PS seem very expensive for a 24V 5A supply even a RS one like this http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/din-ra...plies/1238020/ is cheaper.
Yep, perhaps that's the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
Thanks. Ive got similar on my other machines. I always believed that the iron is 'floating'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Well I shouldn't really admit it but in the good old days of valves tv's the first thing we did was cut the earth off the iron:dread: one of the reasons was that one side of the mains was connected directly to the chassis and you generally worked on them switched on. I am in no way telling anybody to cut the earth off anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz
Ye, we did that too when I was an apprentice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
So I emailed the local company for these PSUs. Keep in mind I didnt buy the units from them so I was not sure if Id even get a response.
Received this:-
The solder tip of your iron will be earthed and this is a different potential to the Ov rail which is not really “0v” but simply a DC return for the +DC rail and is therefore floating with respect to Earth. I am not sure of the effect on the PSU by doing what you have done – usually a thermal trip / breaker will have activated but if it isn’t anything obvious then all you can do is speak to the manufacturer which is not us, we simply distribute. The manufacturer is a company called EPLAX in Germany and you need to call them
So I have a few options. Let's assume they are faulty. I need roughly 10A if I do a like for like replacement although I am sure that the smaller driver and board take less than 2A. I could also increase the Voltage on the two main axis steppers. Would higher voltage be better or just remain with 24V all round?
Thanks
Without reading back through the thread to see what you have or have not changed, can the stepper drivers handle the extra voltage?
I'd suspect they've just used a generic power supply, rather than have two different ones, so you will most likely get away with a smaller one if one only powers a single motor.
I dont have the motor spec and I am reluctant to start removing bits. Probably the easiest to do is simply put back a 24V 10A supply which will cover all my needs. I have a 24V 5A already which is being used for another machine - ill move this across, make sure it all works and then buy a larger din rail unit and rewire where needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
Ok, using a 5A PSU and a new BOB, we are back to where we were. However, I cannot get the relays to switch.
Click on coolant, the 5V relay on the BOB clicks, light comes on, IN1 (Input 1) on the Relay board switches. The problem is that the relay state on the relay board doesnt change. If I remove the jumper (what does it do?) the relay makes / breaks but that is manual. If I try and bridge to the other side the BOB boards dim and its clearly not happy.
Any ideas? My 5V light on the PSU is also not active however I can measure 5V (PC voltage) across the pins. Is my wiring correct?
OK, its working. Looks like the relay board must have been damaged. Had bought a 2nd one as they were cheap. Now works :-)
Wow, what a mission.
Ok, its working however at startup the boards 'click'. It did not cause a problem at first but now the coolant pump starts / stops as the relays change state.
Any idea what can be causing this? I tried a different 5V supply. I believe the 24V supply can offer enough current. I cant see any voltage drop as such.
Could it be Mach 3 initalising as the PC boots up? Not sure if I can create some form of 'dont power anything till everything is ready' steady state. The PC currently is fed from the same power as the CNC. Perhaps I should power the PC on its own and see if this still happens during the machine start up.
Once everything has been booted and settled, the clicking goes away.
Are you using a charge pump?
If not, it sounds like the parallel port doing random things as things boot up.
If you've not got a charge pump, a quick fix would be an extra switch to keep the lathe powered of until the PC has booted. It's not ideal, but it would work, provided you remember to turn things on in the correct order.
Not sure what a charge pump is. It has a normal 24V contractor that fires up the coolant pump (single phase probably around 0.3KW). I may disconnect the main motor drivers and see if it still does it. Something seems to want to initialise. It could be the PC too, its not a good machine as such but we are fairly limited with the older interfaces (unless there are trust worthy add on cards for newer machines).Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
Actually, id go CS Labs for the simplicity however not value for money at present. I could look at something like one of the smoothieboards or something that is better than the BOB but less expensive than CS Labs.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
A charge pump is a device that needs a fixed frequency input, at which point it then activates, and is typically used on BOBs to ensure no outputs are activated until the charge pump is active.
The problem with a parallel port, is the pins may switch on/off during power up/initialisation. By using a charge pump, it means the parallel port driver has to be full control, and generating a fixed frequency output, before any outputs get activated. It also provides some safety in the event the computer crashes, as it should cause the charge pump to fail and deactivate outputs.
If it's just the coolant switching on, I wouldn't worry too much. The big concern is if the spindle happens to activate, or anything else that could cause physical damage.
I would only add that my experience of a charge pump on a Chinese BoB with no worthwhile knowledgeable support coming from the supplier (in Devon), I ended up disabling it and have a switch for my spindle (so I can change a tool without losing another finger end) and a switch for the air blower.
That was when I first started using Mach3, I probably could figure out how to enable it properly now, but it isn't on the BoBs I use now and I have got used to being without it
Cheers,
Rob
My niggles continue. Latest one is really odd. After replacing my blown PSU, Ive had an el cheapo die and 2nd one seems to be holding up.
Z (stepper motor) moves when driven at slow feedrate. At higher feedrates it doesnt have torque and whilst it makes a noise, it doesnt move. I swapped the connectors, problem moved, so thought it was the connectors / BOB. However later when I tested it was inconsistent.
How do I test if I am getting the correct step / dir to each drive? Taking the steppers off is a pain, finding it difficult to figure out what else it could be. Wiring looks OK.
I did notice that a CSS value moves when I move one of the axis, turns out this is constant speed so should be OK. Anything else I Can look at? I dont like / trust these cheap controllers however I dont want to spend on the machine as Ill sell it at some point and get something larger for my needs (or just build one).
Ok fixed.
I suspected the movement distance didn't look right. Turns out when I moved the 24V PSU and I had reconnected the drives, I had bumped a dipswitch on the drive which changed the steps.
Compared the drives, changed, sorted.
So, since I have changed my PSU, my steppers dont seem to want to perform. It could be a cheap PSU however not sure.
If I am going to add in another PSU, should I try and increase the voltage? I cant see the exact number, I cant find these drives anywhere - but lets assume it will take 48V DC. I also need to check if the current settings are correct for the specific voltage. Currently everything runs off a 24V 10A supply.
Would it be 'good practice' to try and get the voltage as high as possible?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4354/3...5fbaf35c_b.jpg
Chaz its hard to see but if you look on the driver it gives the max voltage at bottom RH side (48V?) if so you could run them at say about 36V. Do yourself a favour and buy some decent drives like AM882 and run them at a higher voltage.
Also you don't say what PS you are using switch mode are not good for steppers.
Ye, possibly around 50V.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
They did work well before the previous set of PSUs died. The current PSU is one of them el cheapo ebay ones, I presume they are SMPS.
Id like to sell the lathe but need it to be 100% reliable before I do. Any suggestions on what PSU would suit if I was just going to upgrade this? Lets assume 36 or 48V max.
lll take a look at the AM882 anyways.
Thanks
My best bet is probably something like this.
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...-supply-7.html
Move the drive power to this, leave the 24V supply to do the logic stuff only.