Ready Steady Eddy

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12-11-2013
EddyCurrent

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Re: Ready Steady Eddy

How many people build the control panel first ? Just got it finished today, I decided I would wire the spindle cable directly to the Inverter later on without going through a set of terminals.
The door interlocked isolator is in a position I would not normally use but layout and segregation of components dictated the design.
I'll also install a cooling fan at the bottom blowing air into the enclosure via a replaceable filter and an outlet at the top. It's better to blow air in, than suck it out, this maintains a positive pressure inside the enclosure keeping crap out, the only access point being through the filter.

Attachment 10719 Attachment 10720

I came across these handy automotive fuse holders, ideal to individually supply and protect each stepper driver from your power supply. While sold as 12volt I decided they would be perfectly fine for the 60 volts I am using but you should decide yourself if you think about using them.

2/4/6/8/10/12 WAY + HEAVY DUTY AUTO FUSE BOX/HOLDER 12V VOLT STANDARD BLADE | eBay
13-11-2013
cncJim

Re: Ready Steady Eddy
Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

How many people build the control panel first ? Just got it finished today, I decided I would wire the spindle cable directly to the Inverter later on without going through a set of terminals.

Wow eddy, that's a great looking control panel! I am especially interested as I am in the process of boxing up all of my hardware (currently all screwed to a bit of old mdf that has seen better days!).

I would love to know a bit more:-
- Quote:
  
  Originally Posted by EddyCurrent
  
  I decided I would wire the spindle cable directly to the Inverter later on without going through a set of terminals.
  
  Do you mean rather than going INVERTER -> Through the conduit -> DIN mounted terminal -> panel mounted connector, you will be skipping the conduit/DIN terminal and wire straight to the panel connector? Is this to reduce the chance of noise/interference?
- Do you have any wiring diagrams you would care to share? I can identify some of the components in your pic and guess how some connect but a bit more detail would be great.
- Where are you planning to mount the various connectors? I guess the bottom panel?
- I see you have an EStop on the front but do you have any other provision for machine mounted estops/limit switches/home switches?
- Are those grey jobbies at the bottom din mounted terminal blocks?
- Can you recommend a supplier for the various parts (DIN rail, cable conduit etc)?
Sorry for all the questions, just very interested!
Thanks again for sharing the pics Eddy! :thumsup:
13-11-2013
EddyCurrent

5 Attachment(s)

Re: Ready Steady Eddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Wow eddy, that's a great looking control panel!

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Do you mean rather than going INVERTER -> Through the conduit -> DIN mounted terminal -> panel mounted connector, you will be skipping the conduit/DIN terminal and wire straight to the panel connector? Is this to reduce the chance of noise/interference?

Yes and Yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Do you have any wiring diagrams you would care to share? I can identify some of the components in your pic and guess how some connect but a bit more detail would be great.

Attachment 10721 Attachment 10722 Attachment 10723 Attachment 10724 Attachment 10725

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Where are you planning to mount the various connectors? I guess the bottom panel?

No connectors, I'll be glanding off the cables at the bottom and wiring into the DIN rail mounted terminals

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

I see you have an EStop on the front but do you have any other provision for machine mounted estops/limit switches/home switches?

See drawing, yes, I'll probably include in the E/stop circuit the following; ultimate travel limits, machine mounted E/stop button, spindle motor over temperature sensor, AM882 alarms.
The homing limits are wired separately they are not in the E/stop circuit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Are those grey jobbies at the bottom din mounted terminal blocks?

Yes, the earth terminals provide an easy way to tie all the screens down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Can you recommend a supplier for the various parts (DIN rail, cable conduit etc)?

These may not be the ultimate cheapest but won't be far off, I was surprised how Farnell prices have improved lately for some items, or maybe it's others bumping theirs up ?

Home - Chalon Components - various bits and pieces
Farnell United Kingdom | Electronic Components | Electronic Parts - DIN rail, trunking, other small bits
Quickbit - CY cable
Electronic Components from Rapid - the Electronic Parts Specialist - small power supplies, large capacitor
Transformer Manufacturer UK - Airlink Transformers - toroidal transformer
13-11-2013
cncJim

1 Attachment(s)

Re: Ready Steady Eddy
Thanks again Eddy, you have saved me many hours/days of Googling!
- What software did you use for your wiring diagrams? Looks very good and easy to follow.
- Quote:
  
  Originally Posted by EddyCurrent
  
  “No connectors, I'll be glanding off the cables at the bottom and wiring into the DIN rail mounted terminals”
  
  Of course! I have been specing out the various connectors I would be needing to hook everything up (not cheap!) but this way make far more sense! Even more so the fact that I plan to fix my control panel under the machine. Doh! :stupid:
- Do you plan to have any control for things like Air/Water/Vacuum in the panel or maybe just have them switchable on the machine? I plan to have them all individually controllable (ON-OFF-ON with spindle).
- I like the idea for the spindle motor over temp. Have decided how you will implement this at the spindle?
Also I spotted your link to the “System Design for Control of Electrical Noise” pdf in another post. Just been reading it, great info, particularly the parts dealing with “clean/dirty/very dirty” cable runs. Very interesting.

Maybe not so much use in your case Eddy (?), but in case anyone else finds it useful I found a neat cable entry wiring solution for cabinets - Great for things like the parallel port cable:-
Weidmuller Cabtite
Attachment 10726
13-11-2013
EddyCurrent

Re: Ready Steady Eddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

What software did you use for your wiring diagrams? Looks very good and easy to follow.

Visio but any 2D CAD will do, it's just that I had already created the symbols with it. By the way a good source for electrical symbols is the Telemecanique catalogue, you have to draw them youself and save as a block but it's still a great resource.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Do you plan to have any control for things like Air/Water/Vacuum in the panel or maybe just have them switchable on the machine? I plan to have them all individually controllable (ON-OFF-ON with spindle).

No not particularly but I have included some spare terminals if need be with the idea of adding another breakout board, the Smooth Stepper has connectors for 3 ports. The enclosure is pretty full now and I like everything to fit onto the backplate, other than door mounted buttons etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

I like the idea for the spindle motor over temp. Have decided how you will implement this at the spindle?

The spindle is an ELTE 2.2kw TMPE3 12/2 and has a built in switch for temperature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

Also I spotted your link to the “System Design for Control of Electrical Noise” pdf in another post. Just been reading it, great info, particularly the parts dealing with “clean/dirty/very dirty” cable runs. Very interesting.

In my panel all the low level signal wires go in the right hand vertical trunking while the stepper motor and power wiring are in the left hand vertical trunking. The stepper motor wiring and spindle motor wiring are in screened CY cable, all screens earthed at the terminal rail and nowhere else.
If anyone is concerned, it might be worth their while to look up IP2X for electrical panels, one way is to put a full perspex sheet over the whole guts secured by screws at the corners.
14-11-2013
JAZZCNC

Re: Ready Steady Eddy

Eddy Save your self some inputs and just wire the Home and limits in series. If using separate home switches to limits you'll just need 2 inputs and if sharing same switch just one.!

Not sure if your aware or not but by default when Mach homes it just moves one axis at a time so can be wired in series with no problems. You only need on separate Inputs if you change the homing script so all Axis home together. It's actually better leaving in default mode because it's very easy to damage tools etc because when you press Ref all home then all 3/4 axis set off homing at same time and it's very easy for tool to catch something because the Z axis hasn't lifted enough before X or Y drag it into clamps or material etc.
Mach's default homing first lifts the Z axis then Y axis followed by X axis making it safe. In practice when wired in series this also means tripping any switch can set the axis being homed at that time.? Ie pressing X axis switch while Z axis is homing still sets Z axis home position.? Mach doesn't know or care which switch is pressed, all it cares about is seeing the input state change then setting the coordinates for the axis it was homing at that time then moves onto the next axis etc.

Also spotted you have the ABB 355 vfd same has me. I don't see any reference to the water pump on your schematic and I also don't see any reference to it from the VFD so not sure if your using WC spindle or not.? . . But What I do is use the On board relay on the VFD to turn pump on/off this way it's only on while spindle is spinning.
14-11-2013
EddyCurrent

Re: Ready Steady Eddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Eddy Save your self some inputs and just wire the Home and limits in series. If using separate home switches to limits you'll just need 2 inputs and if sharing same switch just one.!

Thanks, yes, I found out about that while testing the setup here.
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/market...html#post51374

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Also spotted you have the ABB 355 vfd same has me. I don't see any reference to the water pump on your schematic and I also don't see any reference to it from the VFD so not sure if your using WC spindle or not.? . . But What I do is use the On board relay on the VFD to turn pump on/off this way it's only on while spindle is spinning.

Air cooled ELTE spindle, yes good idea to use the relay for that.
14-11-2013
cncJim

Re: Ready Steady Eddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

Visio but any 2D CAD will do, it's just that I had already created the symbols with it. By the way a good source for electrical symbols is the Telemecanique catalogue, you have to draw them youself and save as a block but it's still a great resource.

Ah ok - I have access to visio so I guess its time to learn how to use it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

The spindle is an ELTE 2.2kw TMPE3 12/2 and has a built in switch for temperature.

That's interesting. I was thinking about this and is it a good idea to have the spindle over temperature hooked into the estop circuit? My thinking being that if the spindle starts to over heat, I would for sure like to be made aware of it but I wouldn't the whole machine to emergency stop and risk damage (would anything potentially be damaged as a result of an estop or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I have read different things/advice so far. Obviously if it was a real emergency then damage to the equipment is the last thing to worry about). Maybe a two stage system with a warning buzzer/light when the temp hits the first level and then estop if it rises to the next level? Sorry just thinking out loud!
*

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

In my panel all the low level signal wires go in the right hand vertical trunking while the stepper motor and power wiring are in the left hand vertical trunking. The stepper motor wiring and spindle motor wiring are in screened CY cable, all screens earthed at the terminal rail and nowhere else.
If anyone is concerned, it might be worth their while to look up IP2X for electrical panels, one way is to put a full perspex sheet over the whole guts secured by screws at the corners.

I think that is how I will approach the wiring. Thanks for the reminder on IP. Many years ago I used to work in electrical testing and I can just about remember some of the testing we used to do for IP.
14-11-2013
EddyCurrent

2 Attachment(s)

Re: Ready Steady Eddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncJim

That's interesting. I was thinking about this and is it a good idea to have the spindle over temperature hooked into the estop circuit? My thinking being that if the spindle starts to over heat, I would for sure like to be made aware of it but I wouldn't the whole machine to emergency stop and risk damage (would anything potentially be damaged as a result of an estop or have I got the wrong end of the stick? I have read different things/advice so far. Obviously if it was a real emergency then damage to the equipment is the last thing to worry about). Maybe a two stage system with a warning buzzer/light when the temp hits the first level and then estop if it rises to the next level? Sorry just thinking out loud!

Yes this crossed my mind, I may change this strategy at some point. To be honest I just included that option at the last minute without much thought. Just a quick thought, maybe if it was an input to the breakout board it could tell Mach3 to close down in an orderly fashion home itself then stop the machine.

Following Dean's reply and also my tests in another thread I have updated 2 of the drawings so that the X,Y,Z home limits are in series but the A home limit needs to be separate because it's slaved off X as I'm using 2 individual motors driving two ball screws. I'll still bring 2 core cables back from each switch to the machine mounted terminal box but I'll series them up at the terminal rail. (leaves option for later if need be)

Attachment 10730 Attachment 10731

With regard to safety, final, ultimate limits (whatever you want to call them) then it is not a good idea to involve software which is why I have them in the hardware E/stop circuit.
14-11-2013
cncJim

1 Attachment(s)

Re: Ready Steady Eddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

Yes this crossed my mind, I may change this strategy at some point. To be honest I just included that option at the last minute without much thought. Just a quick thought, maybe if it was an input to the breakout board it could tell Mach3 to close down in an orderly fashion home itself then stop the machine.

Nice thought! As a result of the input would it be possible instruct Mach to issue a Feedhold, raise to safe z and shutdown the spindle? Would be nice to be able to continue the job after checking things out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

Following Dean's reply and also my tests in another thread I have updated 2 of the drawings so that the X,Y,Z home limits are in series but the A home limit needs to be separate because it's slaved off X as I'm using 2 individual motors driving two ball screws. I'll still bring 2 core cables back from each switch to the machine mounted terminal box but I'll series them up at the terminal rail. (leaves option for later if need be)

My machine also uses two motors driving x - interesting to see how this should be wired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

I'll still bring 2 core cables back from each switch to the machine mounted terminal box but I'll series them up at the terminal rail. (leaves option for later if need be)

That's a good idea. I have quite a bit of Cat5 cable and I was thinking of using this. Figured the twisted pairs would be good for noise rejection. Second thought, the Cat5 is also shielded but I am thinking the cable may be too bulky/stiff...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

With regard to safety, final, ultimate limits (whatever you want to call them) then it is not a good idea to involve software which is why I have them in the hardware E/stop circuit.

Agreed - I haven't designed my safety circuit yet but was planning on basing it on the example circuit in the Mach 3 manual.
Attachment 10732

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