Won't get that lot inside 18 x 50.!!
Doesn't work like your nice neat drawing and you'll never get them to lay like that in reality. You'll need at least 25 x 56 and even then I'm not sure it will all fit easily.
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Won't get that lot inside 18 x 50.!!
Doesn't work like your nice neat drawing and you'll never get them to lay like that in reality. You'll need at least 25 x 56 and even then I'm not sure it will all fit easily.
Hi Clive S,Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
4mm2 earth (functional, not for protection)
Since all metal runs on bearings on these machines.... you want to make sure no (fault) current will ever pass through them to ground.
All moving parts are so inter connected without the stepper or signal cables.
4wire cy home
I have combined y and z home in 1 cable.
+,-,y,z
Also x1 home and x2 home are combined.
+,-,x1,x2
Yes i can probably do cy 4x0.5mm2 for sensors.
I am looking for a single cable type for ease of ordering, single item to stock and just having a single package of +/- 50m item making it less expensive.
I have no clue on how much air i need glad to hear 4 will do.
Need to find out before buying a suitable compressor (will a double or quad airbrush silent type work?)
like one of these:
6bar 25 liter 60 db
https://www.hbm-machines.com/product...ush-compressor
About spindle cooling.
Do any of you run a pc cpu cooling type radiator/pump on the z assembly?
Dont see the real advantage of running the cooling lines towards the controls cabinet.
And do the same thing there.
Running 12 volts for pump and fan to the z assembly beats 2x 8mm cooling lines in my opinion.
About the vfd.. spindle 1.0 mm2
Is it 230volt 3phase out right?
This formula should then resolve amps
P=V3*U line*I line*cos phi
so
2200=1.73*230V*6.9A*0.8
So 6.9amps?
1mm2 should cover that than.
Any thoughts?
Grtz Bert.
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Hi Jazz,Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I did this drawing to hear from people here who have actually done a drag chain since i have not. [emoji3][emoji3]
So thank you all for getting involved again and saving beginners like me from obvious mistakes.
So.
The drawing is worst case and 2 spare cables. 4mm2 wasnt drawn.
Ok recap.
I hope i can drop 2 coolant 8mm lines and replace it with 12volt line.
Q1
I would like to know about pc pump radiator setup on z assembly for spindle cooling, is it an ok option?
i can drop from 1.5 to 1.0 mm2 for spindle.
i can drop from 6mm air to 4mm
I have 2 cy 4x0.75 spares drawn.
Q2
Does one stack cables in a dragchain or should it be avoided?
Grtz Bert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
I use something like this on the back of the gantry with less that 1 ltr of water. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/80mm...ceBeautifyAB=0
but you can get one with a little bigger and fit a 120mm fan.
Re the VFD 2.2Kw is at the mains side so at the motor side rough figures prb. about 4A per phase ish.
re the 4mm tube I find that more than enough flow. I have it at about 8 bar and regulate it down on the gantry.
For the drag chains:
My old machine had drag chains down both sides. On one side I ran the signal cables and on the other side I ran the stepper cables and power lines (pump, light etc.). This was to keep them separate for interference. I've seen others groups them all together so maybe not required but it would give you double the space. Each one was quite large if I remember correctly, maybe 50x20 or so?
For the cooling:
An earlier version of my old machine had the radiator on Z axis and that worked fine but did not look very nice with all the tubing sticking out. I moved it to the end of the gantry which was better.
On my next machine I'm planning to run the cooling pipes all the way through the drag chains and off the machine to a reservoir tank (no radiator) as I found the spindle got barely warm even with the fan off (and sometime the pump off as well for small jobs). I will rely on the thermal inertia of a much bigger tank of water. Easy to add further cooling if it does not work but experience of the old machine suggests it will be OK.
Compressors:
I'm no compressor expert but when I last looked at them you could either have quiet and low flow rate, or noisy and high flow rate. If you wanted higher flow and reasonable noise you needed to get multiple cylinders, belt drive but they were a lot more money.
Ok so..Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
So i am reading between the line, you are saying the vfd does 400 volts secundary.. That is even better actually.
Routercnc
You say you moved the radiator to the end of the gantry. Pure cosmetics?
I dont want to design in a direction that is some how flawed... or less desirable for know reasons.
Dual dragchains might do the trick also.
need to look in to that.
Ok so i will first reduce size on the diameters for vfd cable and air/mist lines.
After that i can measure cable length per type. see if i can get to 50% or so fill rate for the dragchain. if no i have to bite the bullit and go bigger.
Grtz. Bert
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Yes, moved the radiator just for cosmetics. Worked fine where it was, weight was not a problem on the Z axis. But radiator was 120 mm size with fan and pipes sticking out so did not look so nice there.
Attachment 24048Attachment 24049Attachment 24050Quote:
Q1
I would like to know about pc pump radiator setup on z assembly for spindle cooling, is it an ok option?
The black tube into the reg. is feeding the air into the blue water filter with WD in it (just behind the gantry) and also to blow the chips away. You can see the cooling water 1Ltr on the gantry.
The fan is 120mm
ARKO 22x80 R60
This is a very good cable chain, better than the chinese.Yes i use it on my machine, and yes i have similar chinese ones. its better. And a servo controller connector passes through it. And the price is right.
Hi Bouyan,Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
Thank you for the suggestion.
I will look it up on a pc soon ... smartphone screws up the site.
Grtz Bert.
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Ok,Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
I realise now i need a solution for connectionbox sensor to cy cable.
Thanks for the pictures.
I am gonna think about through gantry cable ways for x1 x2 sensors..
Some extra planning.
Grtz Bert.
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Hi Clive S,Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
Do you think the leadshine dm856 will do for my setup?
http://www.leadshine.com/productdeta...DM&model=DM856
Or will i gain lots in buying am822 drives.
I am not sure i can still buy them oem ... Though somebody said there is nothing wrong with a good copy.
They look alright @80v /5.6 amps
I have the cnc4you 4amp 4nm nema23 steppers.
Grtz. Bert
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I have no experience of them but they look OK I see they only go up to about 5.6A might be getting a bit close!!
I have purchase three of these:-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2DM860H-2...7453%7Ciid%3A1
But not tested yet.
Hi Clive S,Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
I am unsure what using 4 out of 5.5 amps will do to the drives life time.
25% headroom sounds ok.
I do like the idea of having an alarm ouput also.
Do you have any idea on when you have the drives up and running?
Grtz. Bert.
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No sorry the control box is built but the mill it is going on will take some time. I purchased the above because am882's are getting hard to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Hi Clive S,Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive S
I have been researching some more.
Do the spec of stepper memtion rms or peak amps? Looks like the 2dm856 driver is rated 4 amp rms ...... 5.5 peak.
https://cnc4you.co.uk/resources/Step...1-03%204Nm.pdf
Are those rms values?
Ill send an email to cnc4you and find out.
Grtz. Bert.
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They are Peak ratings, most motor ratings if data sheet doesn't show both will be the peak rating.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Also, I have some of the 2DM860H but only tested on the bench at the minute. however, they seem nice smooth with low motor heating even after being stood for hours. This is always a good sign because lose motor sat on bench is open to resonance and the drive is obviously handling any resonance because nice smooth operation.
Will tell better when put on a machine but so far I wouldn't tell the difference between these and AM882.
Awesome! Awaiting your final judgement since I have those drivers :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Have you altered any settings via software or only dip switches?
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Ok so answer of CNC4YOU... it is peak.. 3 amps RMS.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
I guess ill order the leadshine dm856 then.
Save a few bucks to spend on some other things.
Grtz Bert.
Now i have to find some other way to hook up a big flashing red alarm light.
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Hi JAZZCNC,
Peak it is... so... i can save a few bucks.
Thanks Bert.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met TapatalkQuote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Hi Guys,
I would like some spindle buying advice.
What spindle is ok?
http://r.ebay.com/yiK93w
or
http://r.ebay.com/IqnGLI
or
http://r.ebay.com/VvZdsW
Looks like i want the taishi one?
Grtz Bert?
In my opinion the bottom one is fine http://r.ebay.com/VvZdsW BUT always check the parameters in the vfd before you run it. As they are sometimes wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Huan Yang VFD with Taishi spindle seems to be the best pack according the people at the forums.
No matter what spindle you decide to buy just make sure it has four bearings at Clive has suggested!
Its the vfd that needs to be the correct one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
I didn't write it right so clearly for someone to understand I guess. :-)
I am referring to something that you have notice so many other time to others and to me also,about the four bearing spindle been better than those with three or two.
Of course the vfd must be set up before run mine came with wrong parameters also but the seller provide me with the data on email how to put the correct parameters on the vfd.
Sorry for the inconvenience!
No its no problem Nick. Trouble is there are a couple of different VFD's that look the same but are completely different inside. You can tell by the front panel. Yes you are correct some time they have the wrong params. set.Quote:
Sorry for the inconvenience!
Ok so i know what to order.
Thanks guys.
Grtz Bert.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
So, i have been on a shopping spree.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Painfull process :-)
Unregulated psu 500va 68v
Vfd 2.2kw
spindle 2.2 kw
WC pump (12v dc pc style)
WC radiator 80mm (12v dc pc style)
Clamp 80mm
Collet set 6 pcs .. 2 4 6 8 10 12
uc300eth
2 very cheap 5 axis bob. for now. maybe ub1 later
drivers 4x dm856
5 proximity switches 6-36v NPN
pulleys
belts
5 junction boxes
20 or so glands
cy cable 4x1
6mm airline
some 10mm pvc coolant hose.
3m 15x50 dragchain
Stuff to buy:
2mm? allan key to lock the ballscrewnut in place.
Did you guys make a flat spot on the ballscrews for more grubscrew grip?
UCCNC
Any suggestions on the pc specs?
It will just be the cnc machine pc.
Cad software will run on separate machine. Nvidia graphics icm F360?
Router bits, I need suggestions on a starter kit :-) for these materials.
Aluminum,
mdf,
soft / hardwood.
And yes steel 8-), just for the sake of testing if it is capable. lets break some bits.
Grtz Bert.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
I have no answers for you, just want to cheer you on ;)
Did you order from China or EU?
Just wondering about delivery times :)
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Hi nr1madman,Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Well eh only spindle/vfd is from a Germany warehouse. But still China.
Steppers from UK/ Still China i guess.
Belts from US i think.
Fastners nuts bolts and small tools, local home improvement (Hornbach) store and places like Toolstation.
Cant believe there is no profitable production /distribution possible anymore in Europe.
Ok.
Every thing else is from China directly.
Ebay, Aliexpress.
Some stuff like linear only took 1 week after "shipped" notice.. Carrier GLS.
Tax through invoice after delivery.
Most "free shipping" goods take 12- 15 working days.
Now my drives , bobs, spindle, vfd, 80mm bracket have not arrived yet... so.
I hope to finish fabricating soon.. that is... weeks.
After that wiring.
Grtz Bert.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
Haha I know the feeling!
Shipping to Sweden from China is usually 30-40 days. Enough time to forget you ordered something :)
I love the "EU warehouse" deals.
Fast shipping, no tax and China prices! Unbeatable
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Happy day today.
I recieved a few items today.
VFD
Spindle
80mm bracket
Drives.
So.
Wiring can now start.
I need oppinions.
Will this layout work.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...340635bd91.jpg
So basically the idea is to keep the vfd down right and keep wiring short and straight out the box not interfering with other wiring.
Have the 70v dc close to the drives.
And the 5 v and 24v dc top left near the uc and 5 axis bob stuff.
Still need to source 5vdc psu.
Did any of you use usb type a smartphone charger for a psu on UC ?
Anyway
High power wiring lower section
Low power upper section.
Tried to do something smart with a channel for hot air straight outside somewhere in the middle on the right but ran in to other problems when doing that.
I want to create airflow from left to right.
Need to figure that out.
12vdc adapter is for spindle and cabinet cooling.
Only low power thing together in cable tray with shielded stepper cables is homing and safety and probe.
I think the on/of pump relais will for now turn on a relay.. to switch the 12v dc spindle cooling. and maybe the vfd for now.
I plan to hook up the stepper cables directly on to the drives.
Grtz Bert.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A320FL met Tapatalk
So i ordered this simple 5 axis bob.
https://goo.gl/images/igEgTX
Leadshine manual says put 2k resistors in series.
Anyway, 4 axis enable pulse and dir 3 resistors
Maybe order 3 more for 5th axis.
Did you guys use a resistorbank for this ?
Grtz Berthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0bd06bae09.jpg
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You bought a UC300eth for the controller?, the supply, and outputs from this are 5V and you do not require the use of resistors. Okay, you're connecting this to the 5-axis BoB - that will also require a 5V supply, and the motor outputs from that will be 5V level (the BoB may have a 12-24V input to supply the PWM 0-10V spindle speed controller (though I can't see any evidence of the circuitry for this on the image linked) - but will also require a 5V supply for the on board logic devices). Again - no need for resistors.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
My words of caution on that BoB - there's no evidence of opto-isolated inputs on that BoB - which leads me to believe that all inputs (from switchgear, limits, e-stops etc) must also be referenced to a 5V supply.
Hmm, just watched the video - he talks of the common line on the motor outputs being connected to CW+ and CP+, which is not my instinctive understanding of the way BoBs normally work (and I've just googled a couple of schematics to confirm) - it's worth - before wiring things up - just checking with either power on the board, or continuity-checking on the board, whether the common pin on the driver outputs are connected to +5 (as in the video description) or 0V (as in the schematics that I've seen). Also, I found this link https://www.machsupport.com/forum/in...0;attach=41290 which also suggests the similarly-looking board (under all the dust) that the common is 0V.
Without the board I can't claim either is right or wrong, but with the uncertainty presented I'd check where the common is connected - Just try a continuity check between common and 0V, then common and 5V - if the 0V line presents the lowest (near-zero) ohm resistance then the wiring on the video is wrong - you'd connect COM to CW- and CP-, and the pulse/direction signals to CW+ and CP+.
Doddy thank you for your explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
Please verify if i understand you correctly and false or true the below.
1 -
Pulse, dir, enable, from uc to 5 axis bob is 5 volt level. based on 5volt supply circuit to bob/uc.
2-
External psu connection 12/24vdc to bob is for 0-10volt /pwm only.
3-
Estop / axis end switches.
I have 24vdc volt power supply which will be used to power the e-stop circuit / relais.
1 free contact on e-stop relais will connect to bob e-stop pin / bob gnd.
4-
Homing.
LJ8A3-2-Z/BX
These proximity switches are NPN.
Now because they run off a higher voltage separate psu i have to connect 5 volt ground to 24volt ground or they will not work icm with 5axis bob inputs.
This worries me a little since i thought the bob would be 24v on the inputs for homing
based on the applied external psu.
I have read on this forum 24v signals are preferred for interference reasons.
5-
I read your warning about the opto isolation, this worries me to.
Having a € 175,- motion controller i.c.m. with a € 5,- bob that does not protect the controller... does not make sense.
Please comment on the above.
Grtz. Bert.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Firstly, you're asking questions on a BoB who's design is somewhat unknown to me, If you have a URL to the actual user manual for the BoB that will help an awful lot in removing uncertainty, however, many of these are supplied without such detail. In the absence of this design data here's my logic behind the conversation to-date:-
Examining the content of the BoB's component layer - there is no evidence of additional components mounted on the opposite side (e.g. through-hole pins), which leads me to suspect that, the usually obvious, opto-isolators, are not included as part of this design. There looks to be three logic devices - pin-counts support the usual combination - 2x 74xx245 octal driver devices (of whichever technology family - HC, HCT, LS, etc). These are almost always driven from a 5V supply (which is compatible with the UC300eth and parallel ports in the PC). You would need these 2 devices to give the 5V buffering for the 2x5 (=10) motor drives, presumably the 11th being the common enable to the stepper drivers, another for the spindle relay - in fact, this is supported by the silk-screening on the board - 12 outputs. The smaller 14-pin device I would guess at something like a 74xx13 device - a hex Schmitt-trigger inverter device, which would support upto 6 inputs - 4 we know already for the IN1-4 inputs. My guess is the remaining 2 gates unconnected. The choice of a 74xx13 would be intelligent (as well as common) as these afford some noise immunity on the incoming signals.
What's left on the board that's visible?, an SMD transistor that will be used to switch the relay, a PTH diode (1N4148?) for back-emf protection on the relay coil, a couple of LEDs - I guess power, and spindle on/off, discrete resistors for the LEDs and the base-drive for the transistor; some SIL resistor packages for pull-up, or pull-down (can't tell) on the inputs to the board, and a smattering of decoupling capacitors. That's pretty much it.
No on-board regulation and a requirement to source the 5V supply from the USB connector.
No charge-pump for the PWM drive, or op-amp (typically LM358s in these basic designs), no provision for anything other than the USB supply.
TRUE.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
FALSE - as above - no evidence in the image linked to the you-tube video of anything other than the USB power-input for the 5V supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Other BoBs, such as the one I have in front of me, have a separate 12-24VDC supply to provide the isolated 0-10V drive output to the spindle drive, but there's no evidence of any such circuitry on the BoB linked.
That will work, provided you have a common ground reference for both the logic supply to the BoB and the 24V supply. <-- ignore that last bit - that's wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
A switched ground, provided the BoB has on-board pull-up (which I'm pretty certain it will) is a safe mode of connecting to the system. Do not, however, try any 24V signalling into this BoB.
Okay, so, do the proximity switches have internal pull-up resistors to their supply? (put a DVM on resistance scale between +V and the output - if there is a relatively low impedance - say <50k, between the +V and the output, and this is the same regardless of whether you use the meter red/black leads between the +V and output) - then this is a strong indication that there is an internal pull-up. In this case, connecting the output from the proximity switch to the input of the BoB is likely to damage the BoB. It's uncertain to me whether this would risk further damage to the UC300eth - I'd not recommend trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
If there's no low resistance between output and +V on the proximity switches then I'd guess there's no pull-up, in which case you *could* pull-up to the BoB's 5V supply, but you lose the benefit of the noise-immunity offered by the wider supply range. Not recommended.
Yup. I'd look at a <$5 BoB that includes Opto couplers, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Edit:
This is the board that I have, and referenced above:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183048728446.
I don't necessarily recommend this one, but you can immediately recognise other component blocks - the 5 opto-isolators running down the left edge for inputs. A similar one mid/lower board that provides isolation from the PWM input into the charge-pump/integrator op-amp set-up with the tiny 8-pin SMD chip in the lower-right corner (together with a chunky capacitor or two as part of that circuit). Just below the relay - a SMD regulator likely for the op-amp. So, opto-isolated inputs, a 0-10V drive for spindle speed that is isolated from the logic supply, and the separate 12-24V supply for this op-amp. None of that visible on the board that you linked.
Edit 2:
Your board can be made to work - but you have to be aware of it's design and any limitations.
I'd also consider when to cut your losses if you want to continue with your original design aims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
Ok thank you for breaking down the 5 axis bob so detailed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
I have not recieved the bob yet.
I will post a picture when i do.
This limits my options for wiring for now.
Grtz. Bert
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Ok doddy,Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddy
I think i am lucky, this is what i recieved.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...04752dd95e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8690007a2c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8096aca922.jpg
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