Nar then stranger.!! . . . . Bit expensive that place. I'll find the name of the place I bought from and let you know. 3000 x 1500 x 30mm was less than half what they want and delivered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean jeffery
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Nar then stranger.!! . . . . Bit expensive that place. I'll find the name of the place I bought from and let you know. 3000 x 1500 x 30mm was less than half what they want and delivered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean jeffery
And there was me thinking this chap had saved me some dosh!
Ah ah Dean is fairly local to me and they only deliver local so no point giving you their number down in the deep south. . .LolQuote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
Hi DeanQuote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Yeah it’s been a while [emoji106] don’t frequent on here often.
Yeah it’s not the cheapest of places but still cheaper than the OP [emoji23]
Thanks anyways I don’t buy often or use a great deal when I do, just a few meter lengths.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Dean I’ve just given your email to a bloke at work, he’s been wanting a cnc router for a while.
He’s been asking me questions over the months and keeps sending me links to pre built low spec machines, so I’ve said just contact the bloke who built mine.
On a side note
Did some maintenance on mine last weekend, just a clean and re pack bearings and what not.
Also checked positioning and backlash
It’s not changed in over 3.5 years of use and it’s been used, I was shocked tbh
Back lash is under 0.01mm my DTI only measures in 0.01 increments but I’d guess at 0.005, and positional error well at 10m/min full travels it’s bang on the money [emoji106]
That's good to hear, always nice to get feedback like that.! . . You still cutting Carbon fibre and Ali parts for RC Cars.? Heath's lad (guy who deliverd machine with me) is racing Model touring cars and he's an expert crasher so might have some business for you. ..LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dean jeffery
Credit mate it’s really holding up to tight tolerance all these years [emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Carbons the main material and the off plastic run not so much alloy now just makes far to much mess, and messes my spoil board up with using mist so only cut this for personal 1 offs that don’t require mist.
Been using some new cutting data and halved the previous machining time in carbon, been using this for around 18 months now.
Well if your mate needs anything just cad the parts up and the crashes will be cheap to fix [emoji106]
Regards limit switch end point placement, how close to the physical stop should I place the trigger point? Obviously want maximum travel, but don't want to slam into them at 10m/min.
Machine dependant really because of different Gantry mass and inertia, do a little test hit the estop at a mark low down the travel and see how far it over travels. This will give some idea then just little more to be safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
Had a weekend playing with the machine and finishing up a few bits.
Attachment 27441 Attachment 27442
I've used a 75mm cable tray to hold the 62.5mm wide X cable chain and fitted it with 3D printed supports. Looks great, and I think that cable tray size must be made for the cable chain, smoothly fits right in and glides in and out when going back and forth (gosh this post is starting to get a little suggestive...).
I've tidied up the wiring around the machine generally, although I still need to make a control box for all those switches!
All the limit / home switches are in place and working nicely, again 3D printed mounts. Thanks for the advice on placement Jazz.
I've got the coolant circuit filled and burped - the flow rate is absolutely tiny though, just a trickle, serves me right for running such a long loop with just the crappy little pump that turned up with the kit. Its 15m of loop in all due to the X axis stepper cooling, and 8mm piping, so I might need to upgrade the pump.
UCCNC is now controlling the spindle speed and direction which is great, and I'm using an old Xbox 360 controller to move the machine around which works great. However, I'm seeing the digital display on the VFD fluctuate and can hear the spindle isn't at a steady speed. This is an issue I've seen described with the analogue control methods with the UB1 and UCCNC, so I suspect I'll need to change over to a digital control signal in the future.
Regards spoil board, I plan to use trespa, but am using some cheap MDF to start with in an attempt to get some mistakes out of the way on something that really doesn't matter.
Spent last night doing spot drilling on a waste board at all four corners and roughly measuring the squareness of the machine. I should have paid more attention to the above at the time - Its not that the steel frame is a rhombus. The X and Y axis are not quite 90 degrees, which leads to an error of 4mm across the two diagonals. I have a precision angle, but haven't got a way to nicely attach a dial gauge to the gantry yet - Its on my list though!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
Initially I'd forgotten the above, and tried correcting by adjusting the home position switches, assuming the gantry was racking. I got the error to 1.5mm (thats 90.1 degrees) on the diagonal, and the next correction stalled the X axis, so clearly I was pushing the ballscrews out of alignment with one another and was twisting the gantry beyond it's limits. That was a big warning sign that I was doing something stupid; obviously the gantry should be nicely aligned to evenly wear the screws and not try to twist against the rails.
Now, I'm not too concerned. Ultimately this just means I've screwed up somewhere along the way getting the squaring on the gantry. Looking at the gantry carefully, I can see the gap between the side plates and the X carriages is slightly larger at the front than the back on one side, and the opposite on the other, which tallies with the rhombus I'm seeing. So I think the main problem is that the carriages are bolted onto the gantry slightly askew. My hope is that addressing this will solve my issue, and mean that without any screws attached my bearings will hit the same point on my rails and remove that earlier error I spotted.
Ultimately, worse case I'll need to remake the bearing plates which those carriages bolt onto (which I already planned to do anyway, I broke a drill bit in one of them so one carriage only has two bolts in - I was kinda hoping I could remake them with the machine itself...!).
I might however do a few cuts with this error in place, just because I'm at the stage where I can start to use the machine for it's purpose, and if I don't get some output soon I think I may get lynched by SWMBO....
The wife is happy! The CNC has produced something for her glass!
Attachment 27465
Psstt... don't tell her that it would have probably been quicker on the table saw.....
Anyhow, very valuable day of learning. First cut was a V carve little sign. Very simple CAD and CAM in Vectric. Second cut was trying to get more serious making the above model, mostly to test the pathway through fusion. Unfortunately I didn't home the machine first, and the bastard had G28s hidden throughout... goodbye 4mm endmill and a few VFD fuses!! The item you see above is my 3rd ever cut with a little sanding. This is going to be a steep learning curve.....
TIP: Cut Air for the first few jobs until confident machine and Cam do as expected.!
Nice one Andy - good to see actual cutting and know it's possible to get there in the end! Although if its a steep learning curve for you it'll be a mountain for me:)Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
Awesome work, I am glad to see you have finished with your machine.
Enjoy your cnc mate!
Interested how your machine is going Andy ? Managed to make anything in metal/ aluminium ? Photos :)
Machines going really well thanks - Haven't had an awful lot of time to dedicate to it recently (healthcare worker...) but having some fun when I do get the odd minute.
First thing was to add the temporary MDF bed, attach, level and surface it, along with tramming the spindle. Wish my spindle mount was a bit more conductive to that process, but hey ho, it works.
I've fitted my coolant mister with enhancements (thanks to Voicecoil) but haven't gotten around to any metals yet. All wood so far, got myself some birch ply for a project and have used it for a couple of other things too. I've got some composites on order which I'm looking forward to trying out too.
First thing was to make a quick and temporary control box - the random DIN rail with buttons hanging off was getting a little haphazard. Found an online CAD generator for the tabbed box of whatever size. I had to manually sharpen up those corners though, so it all got a bit rough! I tried using a compression bit, but hadn't got the first pass deep enough, hence the furry edges.
Attachment 27824 Attachment 27825
Then I gained a new nephew - so clearly this needed more glass work and a frame. First try of 2-sided machining to create a pocket on the back for the glass plate to sit into.
Attachment 27826
I'm currently working on a project that I'll probably make a thread about once I'm happy with it... but here is a sneak peak:
Attachment 27827
Any guesses?
That's my kind of control box!
There are loads of designs for wooden joints that are designed not to have sharp corners so you can cut then on a CNC machine. Some nice examples at the link below. I've used the first, simple finger tenon design for some boxes.
I suspect you're building something inspired by David C Roy.
http://mkmra2.blogspot.com/2014/08/c...d-joinery.html
I was ready to say that the project is one of those wheels for kids that they push them around the house and make a noise that drill your ears,but after that I think that this is not a wise man's choice to build something like that now that we stay home because of the pandemic! :smiley_simmons:
I am kidding,I do not know what it is.
Thanks Kitwn, really helpful link! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitwn
Yep - got it in one, I suspected anyone into their wooden clocks would know.
Good to see you are getting some time at least and some real life creations Andy! I think I need to use mine for every birthday/xmas present for the next 10 years to recoup the cost:)
What method did you use to tram the spindle?
Interested in the coolant mister too for the future - don't think I saw that in your build log?
Ryan
I love some of the designs on that site, especially the ones that use the wood as a spring to snap pieces together. They do test the accuracy of your machine though, I copied one idea which made a joint that had the pieces fit rather like the pieces of a jigsaw. Except they didn't. That was the inspiration for the latest round of upgrades which I'm hoping will significantly improve the accuracy of my machine. The Z axis is now made of aluminium instead of plywood so I'm cautiously optimistic!Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
I consider wooden clocks to be a form of 'kinetic sculpture' just like Mr Roy's creations. Problem is I (unlike everyone else it seems) insist that a clock, any clock, should tell the right time. Hence my current (stalled for want of a working router) project for a GPS-locked wooden pendulum clock.
Haha - yeah. I've already gotten a couple of those ticked off...!Quote:
Originally Posted by CNCRY
The mister is a £5 jobbie off ebay - nothing special to it, just the generic Chinese one you'll find. Voicecoil has made me a new nozzle for it to open up the flow - he discussed the modification in one of his threads; I'll post a picture when I next use it.
Spindle tramming - I used a dial gauge in the spindle, rotating it around on a surface place that is already setup to be planar to the Y and X axis. I have a tramming gauge which I would have preferred to use, but its with the mill locked down a few hundred miles up north.
Haha - I set the router up for a 16mm diameter hole, along with a series of already prepared GCode files for +/- 0.1mm offsets to try and fit the first bearing in. I can't tell you how happy I was when the 0 offset file measured 16.00 on the digital calipers, and the bearing was a tight push fit first time. Bliss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitwn
I suspect I'll end up trying to make a few of his designs... they're definitely in the amazing artwork category. GPS locking them however - that's another level!
Couple more projects - My Brother wanted a 'Plumshed' sign (don't ask - long story), so I did a V Carve with some google fonts. Really love how much the black paint adds.
Attachment 27890
Also spent some time trying to improve my 3D CAD skills - mocked up a Sopwith Camel prop, and tried a 3D carve. The router did an amazing job (its about 600mm wide) - I really love how smooth and flowing the contour is after a single finishing pass with a 6mm ballnose. The only issue I had was that I messed up the CAM and only got half the model (oops). Before this cut I was slightly worried about if my Z axis was okay - one of the earlier 3D carves had some suspected lost steps - but it handled this one perfectly. Cooling is definitely a need-to-fix item on my agenda though - that little pump just can't cope with the length of cooling loop I've got, and after about an hour the lower section of the spindle was hot (still comfortable to touch, but I'm guessing it shouldn't build up heat if the cooling is working well).
Attachment 27891
Nice work!
On the cooling front I found that larger diameter piping (8mm instead of 5mm I think) doubled the flow rate from the same pump. Short restrictions such as the inch-long pieces that connect to the spindle itself made no difference but it sure made a difference over the main several metres.
I built a prototype GPS clock last year, link below. The GPS receiver is the little blue circuit board that appears about 26 seconds in. The pendulum is oscillating freely at it's natural frequency, driven by an electromagnet, but is still forced to run in perfect sync with the one pulse per second (1PPS) signal from the receiver.
https://vimeo.com/343781598
I really like the joining of precise timing and electronics with wooden clock - fantastic!
Heres how the prop turned out, after a few duds and a bit more learning. Nothing special, but I'm rather pleased with my first two-sided 3D carve - quite hard to photograph that twisting shape though..
Attachment 27962 Attachment 27958 Attachment 27959 Attachment 27960 Attachment 27964
Right - lets get back to building machines shall we? Its become rather apparent that dust collection is essential. I'm thinking I'll print one of Boyan's turbo shoes, but has anyone got any dust collection system recommendations? I'd like to be in the garage while its on, so thats a consideration.
Andy,
That prop looks great. I love the way the grain flows along the blades.
I do take a certain pleasure in the idea of a wooden pendulum clock being the most accurate timekeeper you can own. The mixing of technologies is fun, though some of the purist mechanical clock builders are not convinced.
The grains that run the whole length of the propeller was the first thing I notice too, on purpose cutted from the piece of wood for more strength? Maybe a working propeller?
Andy did you hand sanded after the finish passes?
Is the propeller balanced? I mean did you try to spin it and see if it is?
The grain is deliberately running the length, yes. I did try a miniature one (10cm rather than 40cm) with the grain running in the opposite direction, but it snapped during the bottom side roughing.
I believe that's how real ones are supposed to be done for strength during use? But I have no intention of using this in anger - although it's quite tempting! This one is purely "because I can" and it was a challenge for my CAD, CAM and CNC experience!
Yes, hand sanded to remove tabs and clean up a bit, but the shaping is all through a 6mm ballnose. Obviously the photo is just a roughing cut - see the earlier post for what one side looks like after finishing pass. Prop isn't balanced perfectly - but does produce some wind! I should have machined the central shaft with the CNC but didn't want to risk the part at that stage as it's taken a few attempts - each requiring a few hours. It's not too far out though, I think a bit of selective sanding and it would be useable. I have a prop balancer somewhere; I'll stick it on later and see.
I think the real one's (Spitfire etc) are laminated not one piece . You have made a very good job of it :encouragement:Quote:
I believe that's how real ones are supposed to be done for strength during use?
I think spitfire had an aluminum alloy propeller, but yes the old blade of WWI was wood multilayer made.
You usually make two cuts on the wood to his length and then rotate the center beam 180 degrees at his longitudinal axe, for a small scale wooden propeller.
With your cnc you can always make an aluminum one.
Promised an update when I ventured into Aluminium; its only the smallest of steps, but I'm pleased with the results.
The "client" has requested a lampwork beadmaking tool which could form the molten glass into a heart shape. This is the first in a series of tests; the eventual product will need to have two identical sides to squish the bead into shape, but we've just started with a single side for now.
Tried two shapes, a 3D heart and a 2D heart. I pocketed and roughed with a 4mm single flute endmill at 18k RPM and 1.5m/min. Kept the DOC very low at 0.5mm as this is my first time, but the router wasn't phased in the slightest. Then finished with a 3mm Diameter ball nose, 24k RPM 1m/min. Very basic tool paths from aspire, nothing fancy. Went a bit overkill and gave it lots of air blasts to clear the ships and plenty of WD40 in between!
To give an idea of scale, these hearts are designed to fit within a 15mm diameter circle. Very small.
Attachment 28174
Attachment 28175
Attachment 28176
My thoughts are slowly turning towards the 4th Axis that I'd like to add to this machine, but I haven't come across any dedicated build threads yet. Anyone got any initial recommendations / suggested reading?
Nice Job Andy, very rewarding isn't it when you get results like these. Don't be araid to push the machine, I'd be inclined to lower the step over on the ballnose so you get a smoother finish, it could be the pictures but it looks a little scolloped which comes from too large a step over. I use between 3 - 5% diameter on cutters 3mm or less and 10% on anything larger. Takes a little longer but get a nice smooth finish.
Thanks Dean - I used Aspire's default step over, so no idea what it was set to! I'll look into it tonight and get it into that range.
Out of interest, what would you expect to see DOC wise on a router like this with a 4mm single flute? APT suggests slowing down from those parameters once you're over 1.5 D, but I assume that advice is really for mills; 6mm felt like quite a big chunk to be taking.
Ye aspire is mostly based on wood which is a little less forgiving so any small scollops can be sanded away but in Ali you want a smaller stepover for the best finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
Difficult to say because every machine is different, spindle power and rigidity plays a big part. If it was me I'd start at 50% D and feel your way down. Or just go for it turn the spindle up to full RPM so you are getting Max torque then go with 1.5xD and play with feeds n speeds.
Hi Derek,Quote:
Originally Posted by Kered
Sorry, not the same, just another Andy from the UK ;)
Yes I've seen that type of 4th axis, quite ingenious! I worry about the accuracy of such a system though, and I wonder if the Cam is a nightmare! I was more thinking along the lines of a high torque stepper, some gear reduction, a chuck and a tailstock.
Thanks for that Jazz - much appreciated.
Not sure if it's quite what you are after but I've just about finished a fairly conventional 4th axis using one of the harmonic drives and a servo motor, all culled from one of the Korean scrapyards. Looks good so far - had it jogging yesterday.
This is for a metalworking milling machine, so has a 125mm 3 jaw chuck which I have bored through 36mm, so I can hold long stock.
Attachment 28519
Attachment 28520
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CprMqxnXcEE
I like! Thanks Muzzer :)
Quick update to the Aluminium Bead Presses. Other half demanded six sizes of the 3D hearts in both a horizontal and vertical press. Settled on a 0.2mm step-over - we did some tests lower down but whilst the finish was buttery smooth the tooling marks arn't translating into the glass, so decided this was a good compromise (or if they are, they're soon rounded up by heat). Getting some great consistency out of the presses, so happy customer :)
Attachment 29030 Attachment 29029 Attachment 29031
We're now exploring other shapes.... (The ribs are intentional - not poor machining!)
Attachment 29032
The machine is doing fantastically. Its been running 9 months now and hasn't skipped a beat. I had my first acrylic cutting experience recently which went very well. We used two layers to create an illuminated panel, solid grey on top cutting down through to a transparent opal - and if it wasn't a sign for my own address I'd be sharing pictures!
My 4th Axis dreams are on hold for the time being however - a Warco metalworking lathe has just arrived in the garage, which changes things slightly, and I now need to learn how to turn. Never a quiet moment!
This build is looking great! I've been following for a while since I want to rebuild my table to be pretty darn close to this one, only 1.5x1. I like the fact that you used an hybrid solution for assembling the table. My workshop is in the first floor so if i had to ever move and it was all soldered it'd be a death sentence. Is there any chance you would upload the solidwords stuff? Thanks a lot!
Hi fer662,Quote:
Originally Posted by fer662
Thanks :) Although my table is welded, and won't be coming apart without a grinder! The bolts were used to position everything for my first time welding, and are mostly aesthetic now. If I did need to separate the frame I'd need to repeat the epoxy levelling - its something I've mulled over, as we're considering building an extension which might trap the CNC in the workshop for good...
Happy to send over any pictures of the model you'd fancy and provide dimensions, but the CAD is such a sprawling mess its a nightmare to get everything together to share. I'm also not sure of the benefits - if you're serious about building, designing the CAD model yourself is very helpful in organizing your thoughts, and helps your understanding how it all fits together, and it needs to be specific to your components. There are also a number of improvements I'd make now I've gone through the process, so if you start a build log you'll get a lot of suggestions from all directions.
Oh, for sure I would be making my own CAD, but since your design is pretty similar to what i had in mind i'm bound to stumble upon the same problems and decisions and thought having a tried and tested design would help me resolve those at some point. The most significant difference is I don't have access to a mill... I do have my current tabletop CNC that i intend to use to machine the aluminum flatbar into whatever plates I need, and I also have a hobby lathe (not the crappiest kind, I think its the same as the Warco you might be more familiar with in the UK).Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
Oh, so you essentially welded the sides, then assembled the table with screws and taps, and then welded it together? was it mostly to prevent it from moving?
What about the legs, did you solder anything below the open 80x80 tubes? I cannot bolt the table down to the floor because i have floor hitting and i'm sure i'll be unlucky enough to hit a hose with the drill. Probably won't be necessary as the table will weight a shit ton.
Sorry my reply is a mess! Yes, i'd appreciate any pictures you could send about how all the frame is attached.
Attaching a pic of my baby. I started this years when I didn't even have a workshop, let alone a proper one. It literally spent some time in the coffee table in the living room until i stole the laundry room from the wife. Now that i do and i've had time to see the flaws it's time for an upgrade. I already have all the hiwin style rails and longer screws. I'll be reusing only the longest axis rails that are now in X for the Y gantry (1m). I've already redone the control box and electronics and added the extra driver for dual X screws.