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Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Ball screws I'm so naïve
As the title suggests what a idiot
I nearly made a big mistake, I was going to just buy some M12 stainless steel threaded bar 304 grade I think that’s right and have it machined to accept the coupling and end and support bearings with a M12 machined block as my ball screw.
But after doing more research on this forum I found that a purpose built ball screw is the way to go.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-ballscre...7#ht_648wt_905
I am going to order my ball screw set from the above ebayer as most people on here seem to rate him for price but is the product any good and what is the service like
With one set of bearings for the x axis for now
Information and back up from a well supported forum is paramount
James and Luke :heehee::heehee:
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Going from his feedback and what a few others have said his service certainly seems very good. Ballscrews are the way to go. they will be much better than screwed rod.
Ian
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
I am going to order my ball screw set from the above ebayer as most people on here seem to rate him for price but is the product any good and what is the service like
I've bought from him on 3 separate occasions - couldn't afford to buy it all at once! It's generally quick to arrive, and generally good products. Make sure you get his supported linear bearings/rails. The 25mm rails are better than the 16mm and 20mm as they have another row of balls. I found there was a bit more play in the 20mm. When you've worked out what you need email him and he will list what you need.
It looks like you've chosen 20mm ballscrew for the X-axis. The critical speed of 16mm screw, with the bearing blocks he sells, for 1000mm long is about 2000rpm, 20mm screw is 2600rpm, so with 5mm pitch that is 10,000mm/min and 13,000mm/min. Both are probably plenty ... I would either get the RM2005 or RM1610 as the bigger pitch will halve the rpm. I used RM1610 on my Y-axis (750mm long axis) with a 3nm motor and it'll do 12,000mm/min easily. The backlash in his ballscrews is very low.
(My build log: http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showth...outer-building...)
Watch out for customs charges ... he puts a low value on the item so it's not too bad, but you still have the £10 handling fee from Fedex :thumbdown:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
With one set of bearings for the x axis for now
For a 600mm wide gantry you will certainly want two ball-screws to prevent it racking. Or cables in a cross shape like on a drawing board slide ruler to keep both sides moving together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Web Goblin
Ballscrews are the way to go. they will be much better than screwed rod.
Yep, using them increased my feedrate on Y-axis by a factor of 2.5 and X-axis by 4. Not entirely comparing like with like there ... but in general they will go much faster due to the higher efficiency.
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
I'm confused now could you please paste a link Jonathan R1610
sorry but I looked at so many my head is now spinning with to much info
Thank you Jonathan
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Like this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-anti-bac...5#ht_561wt_905
... but longer and with end-machining.
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jonathan
but you still have the £10 handling fee from Fedex :thumbdown:
From my last invoice - DHL administration fee- £1.25 + 20% vat as value stated on invoice - sometimes you may pay custom duties if custom officers fancy it :). What is a justification of charging £10-Fedex if somebody else can handle the parcel for £1.25-DHL ????
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
I have sent him a email today on this item
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...7#ht_648wt_905
what else is needed to complete the x-axis set up is it just the fitting block that bolts to my gantry ??
bracket http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/mdg1...ing-p-180.html
James
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
I have added a reply but it is being looked at by the mod's why??
James
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Hi James, i have just approved your post above. I dont know why that happened as you have posted more than enough times, is this the first time you have seen your posts require moderation?
Thanks,
Lee
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
Cheaper:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-ballscre...8#ht_500wt_922
Or I'll make you them from aluminium for less than that. Here's two I made earlier:
Attachment 4274
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
lee the first post I wrote was 17 hrs to be approved and the above reply 5 hrs but I just thought this was the norm
a lot of forum will only let you post 5 or 6 time until you reach a pre-set amount like 50 post to stop people spamming the forum
o'well here's to plain sailing
Jonathan Yes please I will PM you if that's ok
James & Luke
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
While he is good on price, after talking with i2i in person, I've decided not to go with him for my build.
Have a look at Merchant Dice's Supported rail and Zapp's bearing blocks.
while you are there take a look at Zapp's ballscrew and anti-backlash nuts(£21).
it may be a tad more then china, but the pros are :It WILL be straight, it Will be quick and if you have an issue you can return it quickly.
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jcb121
it may be a tad more then china, but the pros are :It WILL be straight, it Will be quick and if you have an issue you can return it quickly.
It's quite a lot more expensive than China, but up to you I guess...
If you order the ballscrews and rails together you wont have any problem with them being straight as the rails are strong and they will protect the screws as it's all packed together. I didn't have a problem with any of the parts I bought not being straight... even the 2100mm ballscrews were fine and they came on their own.
He's generally pretty quick ... despatch in a couple of days and the shipping takes 2 or 3 days.
I got, for £280, two RM2510-2094mm and one RM1610-905mm ballscrew for £280, that's with different end machining too. From Zapp the same would be £478!! Without end machining it's about the same price ... but assuming you've not got a lathe you need that, though I would do it myself.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
here is a image of the router table I'm going to make
Attachment 4276
I am going to make some changes to it
first change will be the gantry up-rights will be in extrusion and have supported rail on the X-axis R25
James & Luke:smile::smile:
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Just a little update on progress
I have received the following Items
8 SC20UU x 4 pcs Linear Ball Bearing these are for y,z axis
4 SK20 Shaft Support ID20mm Samic
3 X Stepper Motor - 3 Nm, CNC Mill/DIY
and I have ordered the following
three stepper mount for the above stepper motors from Jonathan Thank you Jonathan
Ball screw support ordered again from Jonathan
and -RM1605-1100mm with ballnut and end mached+ a set BK/BF12+1pc Coupler 8mm*10mm(8mm is for motor shaft) SBR25-1100mm(2supported rails and 12 bearing blocks)
Next on my list is the aluminium extrusion but not until I work out the size of my bed
I believe a thread lenght of 1063mm from a shaft length of 1100mm but I haven't decided the (y axis) length yet I think I may go with 700mm witch should give me a cutting footprint of 900x500?
the intended usage of this machine is oak,MDF,pine,acrylic and small amounts of aluminium (and even a plotter cutter for my wife crafting)
I have uploaded Draft sight and working on using it
James
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
I have received the following Items
8 SC20UU x 4 pcs Linear Ball Bearing these are for y,z axis
4 SK20 Shaft Support ID20mm Samic
You're not using supported rails then :thumbdown:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
and I have ordered the following
three stepper mount for the above stepper motors from Jonathan Thank you Jonathan
Ball screw support ordered again from Jonathan
[/COLOR]
Will be ready by tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
RM1605-1100mm with ballnut and end mached+ a set BK/BF12+1pc Coupler 8mm*10mm(8mm is for motor shaft) SBR25-1100mm(2supported rails and 12 bearing blocks)
12 bearing blocks!! That seems a bit extreme for two rails. I wonder how much difference it would make if you used more than two blocks per rail...
Anyway, centre height of the BK12 block is 25mm and total height of the SBR25 rail and block is 60mm. That means I need to make the centre height of the ballnut mount 60mm-25mm=35mm. Do you agree?
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
I may use supported rails I bought these bearings before I found the better priced supported on ebay
I can always use them for a rail guided rip saw later or sell them on ebay
I agree with the height of the mount
i don't under stand why there is 12 bearings I will have to see when they come ?? I thought it was 4 bearings and 2 support bearings for the ball screw ??
O'well looks like I will be going 25mm supported on the Y,Z axis as well or sell the remainder
James
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
well it's started, big time.
I bought my aluminium extrusion today just waiting wanting and more waiting for my stuff from china?? But now I will have to wait even longer for the extra ball screw and supports to come as I've decided to add a extra ball screw to stop it creeping as I have read on similar posts I may even up grade to stepper motors from 23 to 34's (but unsure at the moment)
I will post a image later when I have made my bed
James and a excited Luke
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
But now I will have to wait even longer for the extra ball screw and supports to come as I've decided to add a extra ball screw to stop it creeping
Have you decided to get the next one from the same place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
as I have read on similar posts I may even up grade to stepper motors from 23 to 34's (but unsure at the moment)
I think for the size of your machine it's not neccecary. Remember that since the motor rotors are a greater diameter, their moment of inertia is much greater causing the feedrates / acceleration to be lower ... unless you use a higher voltage. For a size 34 to run effectively you would want higher voltage (mains) drivers. My machine is doubtless heavier, and I've settled with 10m/min rapid feed on the slowest axis - X. It's plenty...though I wouldn't say no to bigger motors!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
I will post a image later when I have made my bed
Early night :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
and a excited Luke
:smile:
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
little up date
as requested by JCB (Jess) some images of the cnc machine.
Attachment 4336
Attachment 4337
ball screws and supported rails should be here today or Friday
the extra ball screw, support bearing is on it's way
I am going to add a 90 degree bracket to x-axis and cnc leg so I can put supported rails on the top and ball screw to the underside of the 45x60 profile
Items next on my list to buy
some more aluminium extrusion 45x45 profile for the bed and 40x120(for the gantry uprights
drivers from ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...#ht_3337wt_905
I am in no rush to make this cnc router just yet but only because finding the extra money is a big issue. However I must admit me and my son are enjoying making it together :heehee::heehee:
James and Luke
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Looking good so far. I would add some cross supports near the bottom of the legs on all sides to prevent any movement. The natural movement of the drives will cause the frame to sway and you dont want that to happen.
Ian
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Web Goblin
Looking good so far. I would add some cross supports near the bottom of the legs on all sides to prevent any movement. The natural movement of the drives will cause the frame to sway and you dont want that to happen.
Ian
Yes definitely, and some triangulation wouldn't go amiss.
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
yes that is what the extrusion is for against the wall and Four more 45x45 on the bed
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
bits have arrived BUT I'm waiting for Luke to come home so HE can open the package
sorry lad's and girls (if any) but this is a Father and son bonding project
I will post images of items when Luke gets home
He is at work with the wife until 2.00 pm
James (excited and eager):tup::tup::heehee::heehee::yahoo::yahoo:
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4 Attachment(s)
Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Here's the brackets I've made for you:
Attachment 4345
Attachment 4346
Attachment 4347
Attachment 4348
Unfortunately it's 4mm aluminium not 5mm. I was told it was 5mm and didn't check ... hope that's ok :redface:
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
they look the dog's b's Jonathan
thank you
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
well the ball screw ends where a bit tight.
The big bearing end had to go in the oven and be persuaded with a big adjuster (lump hammer and a socket) but now the lock nut at the end will not go on (yes):redface::redface: i must of caught the thread when I had the persuader in action
not to worry I don't think it's going anywhere or should I have it rethreaded :question::question:
James and Luke
we are going to start bolting down the supported rails on Sunday:rofl::rofl:
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
well the ball screw ends where a bit tight.
It varied between 11.992mm and 12.000mm depending on where I measured ... so a slight taper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
The big bearing end had to go in the oven and be persuaded with a big adjuster (lump hammer and a socket) but now the lock nut at the end will not go on (yes):redface::redface: i must of caught the thread when I had the persuader in action
Typical, I'd try it and see. If they don't fall off then no problem. On my RM1610 ballscrew (Y-axis) I had the opposite problem yesterday - the bearing was not as tight as yours and I must have not done the nut up tight enough...took me ages to work out what what causing the Y-axis to loose position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
not to worry I don't think it's going anywhere or should I have it rethreaded :question::question:
Bigger spanner!! But first check that the two grubscrews in the edge of the nut which lock it in position are out. Also check the pieces that the grubscrews push onto the thread are not interfering as if they've rotated a little they will stop the nut. I had that problem on one of the nuts that came with the RM2510 ballscrews, so a bit bigger.
I've made the extra 4 brackets - 8mm holes and better finish this time. Couplings almost done too...
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
More brackets, the two couplings and the ballnut mount (finally) done:
Attachment 4350
Attachment 4351
(Sorry they're a bit blurred - the camera wont focus for some reason)
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6 Attachment(s)
Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
ok a up date
after prizing my son out of bed and then 10 min's later off his computer we made some progress
and did some work in the garage on the CNC machine
and here is the images of today's progress on the x-axis
we first (me) with the aid of pritt stick glued the printed templates to the 75x75 angle and then centre punched it, as image 1
Attachment 4363
after centre punch the template was removed and we then drill the angle out with a 6.8mm drill as in this next image and yes that is the young man that is building the CNC machine.
Attachment 4362
after we drilled the holes (long, long time and lots of oil)
we bolted the bearings to the angle as in this next image
Attachment 4364
after some choice words we finished and he went back to his computer, great I can get some work done (bless him, dad your drill is much better than the drill at school it would take hours to drill one hole, and we did 16 in 11/29 poor me)
But it was worth it just to see a smile on his little face
any way sitting down and having a coffee i thought how am I going to get two rail square?
this is what I came up with
Attachment 4361
and after some playing around with G clamps and guide it all worked out fine, smooth movement with NO binding
Attachment 4365
looking good
Attachment 4366
WHAT DO WE DO NEXT :question::question::question::question::question: :question::question:
I have one ball screw and the other one is on it's way and Jonathan has cut the support for them both
James and Luke the short one but never ever tell him please:smile::smile:
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
looking good
Just what I was thinking :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luke11cnc
WHAT DO WE DO NEXT :question::question::question::question::question: :question::question:
Er...rest of the gantry? No idea really, I just did it in any order - gantry first and then the bed etc, but only due to space and it being the most interesting bit! I would get the ballscrews mounted before fixing the rails to make sure they don't cause binding.
I hate to mention 'health and safety', but I've often heard that you shouldn't wear a glove (or any loose clothing) whilst using a pillar drill as what if the glove gets caught on the chuck ... ouch
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Jonathan,
you beat me to it. DO NOT EVER wear gloves when using a drill. If any part of the glove, even a thread, catches in the chuck it will pull your hand then your arm round with it.
The only gloves I ever wear are the thin nitrile ones so that my hands dont get oily. These rip very easily so wont cause you any problems.
Ian
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
I agree but
that is what they teach him at school, and I don't know any better?? what am I to do??
James
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
James,
you could always point them to this link
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg229.pdf
If you scroll down to the section on drilling machines you can read their advice.
Regards
Ian
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
I think you should complain. Surely they should know better? Even if the drills are not powerful enough to do a lot it's still just wrong. I approve that they do DT in year 6 (or year 7?) as at my school it only started in year 8... but we did go straight onto using the lathes and milling machines :)
The head of department reckoned first years were too dangerous!
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
he's already had a year of DT and made a puzzle use a dremel and carved his name in MDF they are using drills, scroll saws, pillar drills and hand tools
I hope to turn him around and do things the right way and the safe way
James
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Jonathan
they have gloves for this and that
smocks and boiler suits ( all with gloves and long sleeved arms)
and not once have I had to supply glasses we have to supply glasses for science
gum shields for sport and a full cricket kit including box and sun glasses even sun tan cream
I think I will inspect the DT department
James
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
I've heard it repeated by rote so many times that you shouldn't do it but so long as you wear the correct type they don't easily get caught. Also, if you don't put your hand in the chuck or bit then it can't get pulled in.
I've been wearing gloves with heavy drilling machinery for 22 years, as they are mandatory in my work. You DON'T want any fabric or stretchy palms, our gloves are nitrile-coated non-stretchy palms and elasticated back. With about 60 employees drilling every day I have never seen a problem related to gloves catching and our drill extensions are covered in stillson burrs.
I always wear gloves when drilling with my bench drill as I don't like getting my hands cut or burnt. For your lad, you could run the belts loose enough to turn the bit but slip if there's a foul-up.
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
It's been almost a week... how far have you got?
I've done the rest of the brackets.
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Re: Luke11CNC Build Log ,I'm so naïve
Hello all I've been away for a long weekend but back now
I did add the new brackets before I went away but I am waiting for new bolts to arrive I should be ordering my drivers, break out board, power supply today and at the week end my spindle 2.2kw water cooled vhf.
I am waiting for some aluminium for a bracket (Jonathan) I will send you the drawing if that's ok, I will supply material if you just give me a price for milling it please.
next week end I will be buying the rest of the aluminium profile to finish the bed and gantry so with any luck I should be ready for wiring it up in October :heehee::heehee: I really can't wait to start playing with the machine :naughty:
I will post some more images this week and even maybe a Video
work to do this week
fit new bolts to brackets that Jonathan has made (twice because I made the drawing wrong (radius in stead of diameter, I really f#### up)):redface::redface: but they will be used some where
fit ball screw to one side, but drill and tap both side's
fit stepper motors to x-axis
finish supported rails
add bed support rails 45x60 profile
James and Luke:rofl::rofl: