Way out of my depth

Hi I have just acquired an old laser tile cutting machine and would like to make plasma cutting machine with it it didn't come with a controller and has no laser or z axis motor for now I would like to get x and y working I have plugged pc in via serial port with Mach 3 seems to be getting signal from encoder because x and y values change when axis are moved manually but can't move them with jog would I be better getting new Bob if so can any one recommend a make that will be suitable for my drives/ motors ?here are some pictures .
Thanks in advance https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...21d136a153.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d5193ada55.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3b5f80c54.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8bdbab359b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...58fabb83cc.jpg


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Mach3 cannot use Serial port for motion or I/O without special software/hardware. Do you mean parallel port.?

By far the easiset way to get this working will be to buy new BOB and wire servo drives directly.

However Mach3 using the parallel port won't provide high enough pulse rate to use those servo drives to there full potential and you'll have very limited speed. Even if you used whats called electronic gearing which will be built into the servo drives you'll still struggle with mach3 25khz default kernal speed. Even 45Khz which is about high has would advise running mach3 will need high electronic gearing ratio depending on servo encoder count.

To do this correctly with Mach3 you'll need Motion controller with at least 100Khz frequency. This KHz frequency also applies to any other controller as well because the number of pulses required for fully motor speed is dictated by the servo motor encoder count and Electronic gearing ratio if used.

Simple mach3 BOB will get you moving but it will be very slow and unreliable.

Edit: To work out the Frequency required for full Motor RPM without electronic gearing we would need to know the Encoder resolution or put another how many encoder counts per revolution. Any details on the encoder would help as there are several types of encoder.

Sorry yes I meant parallel port https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1ac2c075ed.jpg
I think this is the encoder there is a toothed belt on the motor that gears up or down ? Will have to have another look . Is laser cutter slower moving than a plasma cutter?


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Sorry crap photo will have another go later


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenxmetalworks

Sorry yes I meant parallel port
I think this is the encoder there is a toothed belt on the motor that gears up or down ? Will have to have another look . Is laser cutter slower moving than a plasma cutter?

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Ok well that makes more sense. Don't worry about the Encoder for now as we'll just get motion first. Plus using the motor model I think it's 2050ppr which being quadrature means 8400ppr. So 8400 x 1500/60=210,000 PPS or 210Khz for 1500 RPM which motor is rated at. Mach3 default 25Khz would only get you aprox 180rpm.!!

I think the reason your not getting motion is because the drives are not recieving Enable signal. You'll need to use mach Enable output to turn on 5V relay which looking at Yaskawa manual you then pass 24V thru NO contact from terminal #47 (24V) on drive to terminal #40. This is the Servo On signal.

Or you can just put jumper wire between 47 & 40 but wouldn't advise that because means servo will be always active even when mach3 is in e-stop.!!! . . . Very dangerous with servo.!!

I will have another go tomorrow and report back there is two relays in box one clicks when I turn laser enable switch on I'm guessing the other one is the one I need to activate . Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it


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Before all that find and check the servo drive manual, as Yaskawa are notorious that most of their used drives will not work for DIY cnc, due to non compatible signals with normal breakout boards. So find what signals and so on about the servos, then think about exchanging or upgrading the board

Ok I've had another look the encoders have incr encoder utoph 20a wm written on them here are more photos of Bob https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...35543cdb6d.jpg
The two LEDs on the left go on and off when I flick home /limit x and y the led on the right says pause if I disconnect the wire it goes out but still no movement

Here are the motor outputs there are two for each motor at the bottom the two at the top are 5v and ground is this motor enable? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...24f8945906.jpg
Here are my isolated out puts could one of these be motor enable?



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenxmetalworks

Ok I've had another look the encoders have incr encoder utoph 20a wm written on them here are more photos of Bob https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...35543cdb6d.jpg
The two LEDs on the left go on and off when I flick home /limit x and y the led on the right says pause if I disconnect the wire it goes out but still no movement

Here are the motor outputs there are two for each motor at the bottom the two at the top are 5v and ground is this motor enable? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...24f8945906.jpg
Here are my isolated out puts could one of these be motor enable?



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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7a96694a48.jpg



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Just out of curiosity, where does the cat 5 ( blue cable above top leds) go? It is saying output on the board silk screen.
Do you know how this machine was able to get ( g ) code? was it manually input via a keyboard? or downloaded via a disk/USB? or was it networked?
Are there any manuals for the servo drivers? Am thinking that it will show in the current config what the output from the board will be step and dir or pwm
when you say you get DRO movement, is that when you push the gantry manually or when you hit the keys in Mach3?
what was the logic for pin out assignment in mack3
Sorry for so many questions and no solution to the problem.

Good luck

Paul

The blue cable looks like an Ethernet cable and goes to female plug below parallel port in this picture the two big switches above one activates laser one motorshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...53a7b1283d.jpg
I don't know how machine was controlled originally there is another board underneath brake out board the coordinates change when I move machine manually and there are some flickering LEDs on board behind bob when mach3 try's to move machine motors.
I'm starting to think that this is some kind of dedicated system and I will need new Bob and start from there but I would really like to get it moving plus previous comments lead my to believe not all bobs will work with my drivers.
For now there are more questions than answers.
Thank you for your patience


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It does look like some form of dedicated system.

On the plus side for you, it looks like step/dir servo drives (note that on your photo of the motor wiring, each axis has XA/YA and DIR). This gives you a good choice of possible controllers, although you'll need to find manuals for the drives to check that they do take 5V step/dir, as some may require 12/24V signals. I notice the top connectors are marked GND & 5V, so I'd assume the drives use 5V, but it's easier to find a manual and check now, than have to change things later.

I'd guess one of the SSR outputs at the top is what should enable the drives.

One thing that stands out, is why is the E-Stop led not lit on the inputs?

From what I can see in your photos, this only needs a relatively simple controller to get going, although it will most likely have to be 24V capable (there were some 24V capable BOBs discussed recently, but I can't remember what they were).

My suggestion would be start tracing wiring from the control board, make a list of where it goes to, and what voltage it needs (if known).

the common way to wire limits and estop is a normally closed loop. so any fault in the loom will not let machine start.
I would be looking for the manual for the drives to see what the config is set at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul3112

the common way to wire limits and estop is a normally closed loop. so any fault in the loom will not let machine start.
I would be looking for the manual for the drives to see what the config is set at.

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That's good advice I have found manufacturers id plate it was made in USA by vytek Massachusetts 2005 I'm going to email them see if they have any information on it I'll report back
Thanks


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Just to add to that much most of there machines on web site say pc connection via Ethernet


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenxmetalworks

The blue cable looks like an Ethernet cable and goes to female plug below parallel port in this picture the two big switches above one activates laser one motors. I don't know how machine was controlled originally there is another board underneath brake out board the coordinates change when I move machine manually and there are some flickering LEDs on board behind bob when mach3 try's to move machine motors.

I'm starting to think that this is some kind of dedicated system and I will need new Bob and start from there but I would really like to get it moving plus previous comments lead my to believe not all bobs will work with my drivers.
For now there are more questions than answers.

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Don't worry about the drives signal it's just voltage requirements and this can be worked around if required. 99% will work with 5v thou may require differential signals to work correctly which again isn't problem with the correct board.

The lower board will be motion controller and 99% for sure will use dedicated software which you obviously haven't got so it's junk really. However the I/O board you show does look like quality unit so would be worth little effort to try keep. With some trial and error it shouldn't be too hard to track down which pin goes to which I/O.

However for simplicty it would be lot easier to just fit complete new setup. Ideally Decent motion controller with enough frequency and matching bob with enough I/O for your needs. This will have you fully working within few hours.

You say mach3 is showing movement on dro's when moved manually but you don't show how or what your connecting upto.?
Also when say moving manually do you mean pushing axis by hand or manually Jogging by usings keys.? If Keys then the DRO's will go around because mach thinks it's moving.

Under normal connection via Step/Dir signals mach3 does not recieve feedback from the drives so couldn't possibly show movement on DRO's unless pulses where sent out. Even Then it wouldn't show Encoder position it would just be coordinates mach3 believes it's moved to.

So If indeed you are seeing movement when pushing axis then it looks to me like you have connected the Drive Encoder outputs to the BOB Inputs and mach3 is just showing Encoder position. . . . . However something doesn't stack up here either because standard BOB doesn't have enough Inputs to do this for more than one axis and even then wouldn't show on main DRO's.

The only real way you can have feedback to mach3 is by using dedicated motion controller which provide enough I/O. Event then it will only show position and not be able to correct for positional errors. To do this you'll need card that provides closed loop and these are expensive with not many around which work with mach3.

Now thou if you just want to test if the drives work and get motion with 5v signals then that's easy enough but will require bypassing both those boards and connecting directly to the BOB you have.

It's very simple thing to do really but you will need to find the wires which enable the drives. So I suggest you start tracing wires and making notes/take pics.

To get basic motion all you need is Step/Dir signals to the drives and use output to control relay to Enable drives. Limits and all that can be ignored for now, however I would connect E-stop for safety reasons in case Servos decide to take off.

Give info on how connecting to PP/mach3 and try to show all connections etc.

I can't be certain I'm getting feed back I moved both axis to the position where they activate limit switches thinking this might kick it into life then I noticed dro's had changed I'll have another look but I think my parallel port is connected to the bottom board if this is the case will I need to connect to top board direct ? Any body got any ideas about the make of the top board the hole machine build is top quality believe it or not it was going to be cut up for scrap!!


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Can't help if your not going to provide what's being asked. We are not mind readers and if you don't show us or tell us exactly what you have done we cannot help you.

It's not simply case of plug in BOB and away you go. If this is dedicated motion controller then just plugging in parallel port cable and using mach3 isn't going to work because it's designed to use it's own bespoke software that will have special drivers etc.
Mach3 requires exact settings so it knows where to send signals or recieve signals from. So you'll need pin layouts etc of the boards your connecting upto to stand any chance of working.

My advise for simplicty is to map out where all the wires go and bypass all the existing boards. Looking at whats connected then it's very basic system in terms of wiring so will be an easy job to connect to another BOB. However like I mentioned because using servos the PP won't provide high enough pulse rate so you'll most likely need motion control card which gives more pulses.
But just to get motion it's simple job to connect to BOB and PP. But first you'll need to know which wire goes where so get tracing wires.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Can't help if your not going to provide what's being asked. We are not mind readers and if you don't show us or tell us exactly what you have done we cannot help you.

It's not simply case of plug in BOB and away you go. If this is dedicated motion controller then just plugging in parallel port cable and using mach3 isn't going to work because it's designed to use it's own bespoke software that will have special drivers etc.
Mach3 requires exact settings so it knows where to send signals or recieve signals from. So you'll need pin layouts etc of the boards your connecting upto to stand any chance of working.

My advise for simplicty is to map out where all the wires go and bypass all the existing boards. Looking at whats connected then it's very basic system in terms of wiring so will be an easy job to connect to another BOB. However like I mentioned because using servos the PP won't provide high enough pulse rate so you'll most likely need motion control card which gives more pulses.
But just to get motion it's simple job to connect to BOB and PP. But first you'll need to know which wire goes where so get tracing wires.

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Your quite right my little knowledge is a dangerous thing it doesn't help that the machine isn't near to me and I have no phone signal to send info from where it is so I'm neither here nor there .I will do exactly what you say now a trace wires ect.
Again thank you for patience.
I started out with no knowledge of Cnc and I still have most of it left


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