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Hi all pretty new here and still learning.
I have a couple of MAC's that are ageing now and am thinking about buying or building a CNC Router for woodwork.
I'm not sure what system I will end up with but thinking about starting with a Arduino DUO or maybe MACH3.
Regarding picking a suitable laptop would the following spec be suitable?
Dell Latitude E7470 Laptop
Intel i5 processor
14inch screen
8gb RAM
128gb memory
Windows 10 pro
If you are going to run Windows 10 then you can't use the parallel port on any PC with Mach3, so you must use some kind of external motion control hardware. Something like UC100 is the most basic of the usual choices. If you use an external motion controller like that, then any PC capable of running Win10 will run Mach3. However, if you are buying something then it probably makes more sense to use UCCNC software (same manufacturer as UC100) which is more modern and still being supported. Unlike Mach3 which froze development years ago.
The motion control hardware offloads a lot of the computation needed to drive a machine which means that the PC used becomes much less important.
Save yourself a lot of trouble and use dedicated controller without PC. for 200eu you have a 4 axis one.
Which controller would that be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
Well after Neale's advice I purchased the Dell Latitude E7470 Laptop,I think I will need it to download up-to date software for CNC use as my Mac's are running old systems that do not download some of the current software. Al I need to do now is find a, not too costly, good used CNC router, Buy a cost effective new one or try building my own! Either way I now have more options than before.
If you are using a Laptop then you will definitely need an external motion controller and ideally an Ethernet-based one. USB is too flaky and even worse on a laptop which uses heavy power management and not all can keep the USB turned on all the time. They will shut USB down when ideal which isn't good for CNC.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
DDCSV cnc controller . Have the earlier version on my machine and still working like a champ. I am tired of saying how much trouble was Mach 3 + Windows. Check on internet there is enough info and videos on Youtube.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
Have not had time last year , so dont know about the latest if any actual changes.
PS. I see you have purchased already the laptop. Justifying buying computers instead of concentrating on the CNC machine needed. I guess once you finish what you are doing and remember what i said, you will start understanding what i was saying
Boyan, We all have different needs and just because something works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone or that your way is the only way it must be done.!Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
For instance, I've got one of the earlier DDCSV which I don't like it one little bit and doesn't suit my needs. I use Mach3 based controllers with a Laptop and I'm happy with it because does what I need. The DDCSV cannot give or do what I need. I need control-software and hardware that is flexible and allows me to jump from machine to machine with just a few clicks. I also like to see a toolpath on the screen and the early version didn't, thou do believe the latest ones do have a basic toolpath viewer.
I've also used most of the other common hobby CNC controllers/software and to be honest, most of them are very competent with little to choose between them when it comes to operating the machine. Ease of setup of the machine can differ greatly between them, esp if the machine requires advanced features, but this is mostly just a learning curve which comes with any new software and when the machine is set up correctly then you rarely need to worry about it again so no big deal.
However backup and user base make a huge difference to new users and Mach3 still has a massive user base which is why I use it on machines I build. The fact it's not supported by Artsoft is not a big deal for the routers/mills I build because the current build works just fine and does everything my routers need. Once it's set up this side never needs to be seen by a user.
What's more important is the fact a new user who is only interested in USING the machine not configuring it. Can go to a forum or youtube and ask a question on how to operate the software or do what he needs to do to get a job done and someone will come back with an answer quickly. Mach3 blows all others away in this respect purely because it's a numbers game.
Are there better more stable software/hardware controllers out there, HELL YES, but everyone's needs are different and for your average CNC machine any of them will do the job perfectly fine. However the end of the day It's down to the individual user and there needs along with comfort level and MACH3 with its PC based controller offer a nice comforting easily accessible userbase for most new users.
I agree with you , especially about the support. Agree also where mach 3 is much more flexible. I even have proper Mach licence that i payed to support them even that i have the cracked Mach3 working perfectly fine on mine machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
But people should know the other possibilities that work perfectly fine 100%. There is a text file that you can program load and jump from machine to machine, just FYI as probably you know that. And have talked out people to pay for their licences to support the software.
But people also should know that mach 3 means a lot of problems like:
- needs a windows 32 bit computer
- needs a dedicated computer that you dont use for internet or anything else
- the moment there is a but or something not working properly one needs to reinstall everything , clean windows and start again. Sometimes even reinstall windows and repeat everything
- if a computer stops midway due to lack of electricity almost 99% sure the procedure from above should be done or else problems.
CNC started as a hobby for me, to support my other hobby of musical instruments making. But now i have a small sign company. So IMO if someone is retired and has time to play around-great. But if someone is making money from his machine, then better forget about mach3 and the problems arising with what i said above.
You remember when i build mine machine, i tried at least a couple of controllers, from Galil to Pokeys, and i have a couple fo good mach3 controls.
Nothing nearly is good as the cheapest dedicated controller, and i will continue to repeat that. Eliminating PCs with its memory fails, hard disc fails, windows fails, cable connection fails, board connection fails, power supply fails, etc.. is a must for the person who values his time.
And also i continue to believe that for the 99% of the people on forums who are for hobby in the CNC the DDCSV will do a fine job, for what they use or will use their machines
I have mine machine in a garage and live near the sea. When it rains and in winter the humidity is 90% or more, in summer in the garage the temp could be even 50C. Almost 10 years in CNC and 6 pc later, 4 failed hard discs later ,many many problems from mach 3, from the time i use the little chino controller i have forgotten what a problem is.
So let people decide what to use, but at least they should know they have that option. Nothing beats that for 200 euros. Even the shittiest computer is 50 euros with a proper SSD hardisc, mach 3 licence, windows licence, price of controller, price of software/ if not mach 3/ , etc...
Every machine I've ever built runs a PC and I've had probably 3 fail in over 15yrs, nearly always HD related. Nearly always on Old PC's, that had been running for years. It's a simple and quick re-install from the backup and your working again, so big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
But I agree if it's your lively hood then time is money, but this forum is mostly speaking to hobby users with little to no experience so having a big user base to fall back on is worth the risk of a PC failer every 5 to 10yrs.!
If you are a business then downtime precautions need to be taken but that said I've got lots of machines used by business's running PCs working 12hr days and again with no issues. The fact you had issues doesn't mean others will have them, maybe you need to look at how you doing things.? It's poor workman that blames his tools.!
It's just a different way of thinking. I can speak all day why i don't agree with that. Time passes, one learns and decides for himself. There is no wrong or right. Just a different way to do same thing, depends on person's preference.
Wow! I did not know what I started here but it's probably been more informative that you think.
I do woodwork for a living and use quite a lot of machinery but none of it is controlled by computers etc. A CNC Router is what I'd like to start with and see where that leads.
The Windows PC/Laptop was something I need because CAD leans towards Windows more than it does Apple MAC (Mac is all I had). I wanted a laptop so it would be easy to take into my workshop and use with a CNC machine. I am grateful that "JWZZCNC" pointed out that I may or should consider an Ethernet-based controller over USB (really good tip!).
I have looked at the UCCNC software and UC100 and don't know if the UC100 is Ethernet compatible (need to look at that) but I expect there will be a UC controller that is. The downside of the UC licence is it is linked to one controller (A Utube owner's review stated that). It may not seem like a real problem to most but it could stop you from experimenting with other general software if you buy a specific controller. I guess UCCNC software with a controller would do just fine for me but I've not got to that stage just yet.
I have not looked at the DDCSV control yet but will so thank you for that "Byron". I guess both Byron and JWZCNC have had enough experience in CNC to find what suites their needs, I'm still on a learning curve. Thank you for all the helpful advice and leads. Mark
We all love a good spat once in a while ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
I believe there are three UCCNC compatible ethernet controllers; the AXBB-E, the UC300eth, and the UC400eth. For a simple build, I'd recommend the AXBB-E. The other two require a little bit more involved wiring and usually need a breakout board to go with them, whereas the AXBB-E takes care of all that for you, so you just plug stuff into it and off you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
Yes, the licence is linked to the S/N of the controller - but wait! I don't think you've got the whole picture. The licence is for the software (UCCNC) to talk to the controller - but you don't have to use their software, these boards are also compatible with Mach3 and Mach4 (but not, so far as I can tell, LinuxCNC). There is nothing to stop you using the other software - the licence key just activates THEIR software (UCCNC) for YOUR device (UC100). Its in this format so that people who run multiple machines have to purchase a licence for each machine (which I think is fair enough).
The kicker is that Mach3 or Mach4 also needs a paid licence - and its substantially more than the cost of the UCCNC licence (£200 or £300 vs £60 if I recall correctly?). There is also the consideration that UCCNC has a very good reputation at the moment, and there is a reasonable number of people swapping over to it.
Thank you for that "Andy".Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyUK
Although I do woodwork for a living and CNC Router could fit into that, it's not an essential tool/machine at the moment just something that could develop into one. It would start out as a leisure/hobby/work machine interest.
So if I get this right a UC controller is really no different (with some exceptions) to other controllers in principle. But If say I have Mach3 I would pretty much find it is a necessity to connect to my PC/Laptop because I'd need to use the UC100 controller to connect through a USB port? StoneyCNC are selling the UC100 for £117.85, UK that is.
From what has been said about a USB connection being possibly unreliable (especially with a laptop) I think maybe the UC300ETH-5LPT controller might be better if I go for UCCNC Software simply because of the cost of matching the licence with a controller, I'm just thinking out loud (thinking the UC300EHT might be better long term. I understand what you are saying about the wiring but if I do some of a CNC build myself I'm going to have to learn quite a lot about wiring anyway.
The cost of the UC300EHT controller is about £145 from the same as above, but then from what I gather I'd need could/will need a breakout board too £??? and software (Mach3 or maybe UCCNC). Say UCCNC costs around £60 for the software licence (at a guess that is) so I'm guessing as a bundle it could cost around £250 for the Controller, Breakout board and Software. I guess what ever you look at if you are thinking of using comprehensive software to control and manage a CNC machine then £250 is going to be pretty much a base figure.
I thought a UC100 controller did everything but maybe not I sure need to look into this in more depth. The replies and comments are all helpful but it's a lot of inforation to fit together. I'm going to look more into an Ethernet controller, maybe a UC controller that has Ethernet connection. Also how a UC controller would link to the breakout board, then drivers and stepper motors. I mean if I'm planning on using Stepper motors and a Spindle with VFC would I need a breakout board with a UC300 to connect to the stepper motors if I used say Closed loop Stepper Motors and HBS57 Drivers?
Mark
Mark
Yes the UC100 is USB only and will only work on a Windows PC. The Control Software can be either UCCNC which is there own software or Mach3/4. In which case you use a Special Plug-in piece of software supplied by UC100 manufacturer so it works with Mach3. (To be honest, it's the same for UCCNC but it's built into the software installer)Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
Not always and this is the problem to some degree, it's fine on some and not on others. Quality of the USB cable plays a big part as well as the PC setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
Where as Ethernet is pretty much rock solid and doesn't get interfered with by outside factors like electrical noise etc. Ethernet is the way to go without a doubt.
Yes, don't cut corners on the controller or the breakout board because it's the heart of the machine. Cheap nasty breakout boards can be the bain of your life and cause frustration to the point you'll go bald or if folicly challenged like me want to scalp your self with a blunt kitchen knife.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
With the Exception of the AXBB all the others will need a breakout board to make life easier and safer when it comes to wiring.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
The main difference between the controllers other than the connection type mostly boils down to frequency speed and the number of I/O (inputs/outputs). The wiring for steppers, e-stop, etc is essentially the same for all of them including the AXBB. How they connect to the breakout boards (BOB) will depend on the BOB you use but usually, it's either via a cable or by directly plugging the controller into the BOB via purposefully built-in header connections.
The prices for BOB's range from £5 to £250 and with varying degrees of features and quality. Often you get what you pay for but it also depends on your needs, machine usage, and environment to which suits you best.
My advice here is that if you intend to use this machine for business or serious hobby then don't cut corners on the BOB. Remember the controller is the heart but the BOB is like the arteries and if they are blocked because it's slow and rubbish then just like in real life the performance will suffer and it will probably die at young age.!
Totally agree. As Jazz points out, the AXBB isn't really any different from the other controllers; it just has the BOB built in. Heck, it probably has exactly the same components as the UC300eth or UC400 hidden inside, its from the same people after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
I recommend looking at it because its quite an economical way to get a respectable controller with a decent BOB in one shot, and will work nicely for a 3 axis CNC. I personally use a UC300eth with a UB1 BoB from CNCroom because I wanted a 6 axis controller not 4 - its a bit of a step up as such, but you pay the price. I think my UCCNC Licence, UC300eth and UB1 came in around £300 delivered.
Maybe something like this?
https://www.cncroom.com/interface-ca...7b9jgm13v1aj83
Attachment 27070
Or maybe I only need this?
Attachment 27071
https://www.cncroom.com/interface-ca...7b9jgm13v1aj83
PS: Just noticed that with the above the UCCNC Licence is included but not with this package.
That is a good setup and you won't go wrong. Just buy the license separately. You won't need the UD1-U board as you will have more than enough I/O from the UB1 for even a complex router setup..Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
Had a bit of time to look at this today, it looks interesting. Not quite sure this is the way I want to go at this moment but it certainly looks like it could be very useful. I have not looked at all the aspects of the Control, just watched some of the Utube video. It sounds, like you have had quite a lot of experience with CNC machines before obtaining the control so know what you both want and need. It's good that you prompted me to look at this. Without your input I would not know that there are things like this out there.
Thank you for the post Boyan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pN3F04nhZc&t=5s
Attachment 27080
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
I don't know where you are located, but if your flag is genuine then you are still a member of EU, so if you go for UCCNC and CNC Drive products then you should buy it directly from Hungary, not through USA. I am pretty sure it is cheaper that way. In any case, as Jazz said, avoid USB if you can, but if you absolutely want to get an UC100 make sure it is a genuine one. There are several eBay sellers selling fake copies and those don't work properly and unless you have a genuine one, you won't get support from CNC Drive, which is fully understandable. Otherwise their support is excellent. They have an active forum where you can quickly get help from their own people or their users if you have any problems.
I have been using their products for quite some time now and very happy with them. Have used UC3005LPT USB for about two years but when they released the UC3005LPT ETH I switched to UCCNC and never used the USB again. Today, or if I need to change the controller, I'd buy the AXBB. It is an even higher quality controller and there is no need for BOB if you use that, so the whole box would be more compact and with less wiring.
The Flag is correct and I think we will still be heavily linked with the EU regarding trade deals etc for the foreseeable future.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Camera
I really don't like think I would personally go for the UB100 myself (just think they have other products that could be of more use to me).Quote:
Today, or if I need to change the controller, I'd buy the AXBB. It is an even higher quality controller and there is no need for BOB if you use that, so the whole box would be more compact and with less wiring.
Not sure about the AXBB but it would probably be all I need in a tidy box, I need to read up and learn a bit more about what I really need. Asking questions and receiving replies helps.
I could not see Hungary in the list of Distributors for "CNCdrive" motion controls or Software (I pasted the above link but it did not work for me either).
Most of the time you only seem to save a few £££ buying CLONE STUFF so my opinion is I just look for recognised distributers it's not worth the possible problems with buying knock off.
I'll look more at the AXBB. but for some reason I like the idea of the UC300ETH with a UB1 (lots of inputs and outputs).
I still have a lot to learn before I make any final decisions.
Not that i am a big defender on Chinese stuff but as its simple and it works... Moneywise is the cheapest solution also at around 200e. And simplifies connections also.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
Now i definitely understand why someone will want to have 22" touchscreen nicely displaying a software ,DROS, toolpaths and so on mounted in an Inox shiny box with fancy buttons. I have been there.. I remember even a time having transparent door so i could look at the blinking leds on top of that. Maybe its me but with the years i want only simplicity now and 100% reliability. That's why i don't drive Mercedes S classe as before but VW polo if you know what i mean :beer:
Just click on those links and their web page opens. CNC Drive is a Hungarian company.Quote:
Originally Posted by MCmec
CNC room is in Thailand, not the USA. If you're buying a UB1 I don't know of anywhere else to buy it, and CNC room make it, so they're the best place for support.
Regards the UCCNC license, sure buy if from Hungary, but prepare to pay VAT. Alternatively buy it from CNC room, don't pay the VAT and save £20.