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How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
I have been reading through the various build logs, and comments about various designs, and it would seem to me that many of the comments about shortcommings are very similar.
Would it not be a good idea to design a basic machine incorporating the best features with the idea of encouraging more people to try their own build?
I realize that many people will say a standard design would not suit their needs, but I have read several times that the first machine is a starter and will be improved on their next project.
After a basic design concept, ie size, table top, floorstanding, materials to cut etc. I feel sure that the most experienced members could all comment on exactly what the machine should be and come up with a design better than anything else on the market--remember strike cnc!!
The machine could carry smart union flag decals(or other sponsors decals) and be built from supplied DXF? drawings.
A parts list could be supplied and some machined parts could be offered for sale by experienced site members
Any thoughts, G.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
great idea, but this lot will never agree on anything.:friendly_wink:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
Round One, FIGHT! :yahoo:
Sorry could not help it.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
goes to find the popcorn :yahoo:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
EPOXY!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
MDF, so it's cheap and easy to make.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
i2i
great idea, but this lot will never agree on anything.:friendly_wink:
Sorry dont agree with that.!!. . .:joker:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
D.C.
EPOXY!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
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Originally Posted by
Tenson
MDF, so it's cheap and easy to make.
See why it won't work.? Already had 2 hard to work with or unsuitable material suggestions and we haven't even gone near design yet . . lol
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
Thats a pity Jazz, I thought you would have some of the best ideas!!G
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
Tenson
MDF, so it's cheap and easy to make.
easy.. maybe, accurate.. depends how much effort you put in. if you are talking about torsion boxes in every place there needs support your talking a lot of effort, is it cheaper maybe.. one sheet of 18mm mdf is £17, 25mm £24 so yes even if you go for 25mm it seems quite cheap. how big are you going to have to make torsion boxes to make sure the strength is there and in turn how much bigger are you going to have to order your screws and rails to achieve the cutting area you want? i plan to make my machine using no more than £100 worth of steel... to me that seems cheap, i havn't even looked at alu but that fact i'm using steel is allowing me to have quite decent amount of cutting area from smallish screws compared to if you made an mdf machine. also there are plenty of designs out there already that use wood/mdf if it was really that good everyones machines in this forum would be made from it, i only know of 2 guys who have made from wood/mdf and one of them ran away from the forum after i presume all the disagreements everytime he mentioned doing something from wood as an alternative
talking of cutting area.. this is what decides the design.. you cant really be universal as everyones needs for cutting area are different.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Thats a pity Jazz, I thought you would have some of the best ideas!!G
Yes I probably could contribute Geoff but being totally honest with you I do an awful lot of that in front and behind the scenes already. The number of people who contact me and want all the information, right down to cut material dimensions, screw lengths etc spoon feeding is getting a bit silly now.!
I don't have any problems with offering component advise or pointing out potential design flaws and recommendations so they don't take the wrong path or buy wrong stuff. Or like I do often for folks knocking up model or 2 to give an Idea or heads-up but I won't spoon feed folks full designs to the last detail and they should expect to learn the very basics at least. . . . . If they want it bad enough they'll take the time to learn if not then bugger em.! . . No time for free loaders.!!
Problem with this idea is that there's " Horse's for course's" and every body wants just one horse to ride all courses and win each race.!!
Define the parameters and backing the winner of one race gets much easier. Winning all races is completely different and more complicated set of parameters.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
I actually think things are pretty good the way they are at the moment but that's obviously just my own opinion. At present people are required to think a bit for themselves & if they are not prepared to do that then they get no where which is probably where they deserve to be. Sorry if that is a bit blunt but you learn nothing if everything is done for you & at present people are certainly encouraged when they show a bit of effort themselves.
It's a steep learning curve but right from the beginning you start to learn just by reading the build logs of others, using software to design your machine & the help & support you get from others on the site.
There are already loads of designs available for free or to buy so why create another one & all the problems that go with that. From what I have seen in the short time I have been here there are quite a few experienced members who could already design & build machines that are far better than some of what is available already. There are already members who will help with cutting parts for anyone who asks.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
martin54
It's a steep learning curve but right from the beginning you start to learn just by reading the build logs of others
to an extent thats very true you do learn a lot, but i find a lot of the logs i read get so far like basicly to the point of where they have enough help, and then that person never updates the log to show the machine finished and also the accuracy of the work coming from said machine.. yes its a generalisation and it's not aimed at everyone but there are certainly a lot of build logs that leave you wondering if they ever got finished
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
I had a very similar idea; except like a fixed. or 'sticky' post. named 'read this before you think about building' which goes over all the standard repetative questions everybody asks. Like the drawbacks to unsupported rails; the drawbacks to 'cheap' electronics kits off ebay. The limitations of using mdf structurally. maybe with links to other build logs where mistakes have been made a new purchases have been required.
But this idea solves the same issue and so long as the requirements are clear I think arguments could be limited. For example.. 'a cheap machine, that can can only mdf or soft woods, with a 60x30cm cutting area for under £400
Worst case scenario, is it could be sold at the end. (I dont doubt it will cover its costs) il contribute...
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
wilfy
to an extent thats very true you do learn a lot, but i find a lot of the logs i read get so far like basicly to the point of where they have enough help, and then that person never updates the log to show the machine finished and also the accuracy of the work coming from said machine.. yes its a generalisation and it's not aimed at everyone but there are certainly a lot of build logs that leave you wondering if they ever got finished
I often follow up folks I've helped who go quiet and You'd be surprised how many don't actually get finished due to circumstances and general life getting in the way. Thou lots are just having too much fun and can't be arsed to update.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
I often follow up folks I've helped who go quiet and You'd be surprised how many don't actually get finished due to circumstances and general life getting in the way. Thou lots are just having too much fun and can't be arsed to update.
i dont deny that for one minute and i'm not saying it's a bad thing either at the end of the day you make the machine, it works, you forget to take pictures, you then get busy and spend more time designing parts to cut on your cnc and either dont have the time or forget that you didnt finish the build log.. i have to say i'm guilty of this from when i started making homebrew and for that reason i want to stick around here after my machine is finished and try to help people not make the same everyday mistakes, but also to showcase my build as best as possible to give hope to people that it can be done.
one thing i've never found though jazz is your build log :playful: :whistle:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
wilfy
one thing i've never found though jazz is your build log :playful: :whistle:
LOL, when I first started searching build logs, I tried to find his log too because when he helps so many with designs errors, you would think his machine will be the almighty. but as you read on about him helping using his machine as examples, you get a mental image of this ali cutting beast, with a stair lift beam gantry, steel box section frame, large motors with pulleys and long belts , interchangeable mdf, ply and ali beds, oh and 5mm pitch screws. Sounds like a strong machine with an unconventional gantry. Put our imaginations to rest. Pics please.
Adil
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
wilfy
one thing i've never found though jazz is your build log :playful: :whistle:
Thats because it got removed with my first BAN . . .:black_eyed:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Thats because it got removed with my first BAN . . .:black_eyed:
LMFAO.... Such a naughty boy!!!! you mean they didn't just edit out the bits that were against the rules...lol, or maybe your design was against the rules... not conventional enough... Sorry Couldn't resist..
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
Iwant1
LOL, when I first started searching build logs, I tried to find his log too because when he helps so many with designs errors, you would think his machine will be the almighty. but as you read on about him helping using his machine as examples, you get a mental image of this ali cutting beast, with a stair lift beam gantry, steel box section frame, large motors with pulleys and long belts , interchangeable mdf, ply and ali beds, oh and 5mm pitch screws. Sounds like a strong machine with an unconventional gantry. Put our imaginations to rest. Pics please.
NO NO NO NO you don't want to see my beast it's certainly a case of "Do Has I say not what I Did" and it's rough ready engineering at it's best. To be honest it's on it's last legs and in need of some TLC which it will get this year and possibly get turned into a plasma cutter.?
Here's a pic of my son in early days doing his "I'm a little tea pot" routine. .:highly_amused:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Thats because it got removed with my first BAN . . .:black_eyed:
pmsl :D very funny
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Here's a pic of my son in early days doing his "I'm a little tea pot" routine. .
Scan that pic carefully Adil.... He's maybe secreting the real critical ingredients. Such as can be learnt from that single picture.... I can now see that he is using a rigid connection to the planet to dampen resonance!
And whereas we've now seen a horizontal picture, I wouldn't be surprised if he was using it vertically!!
I've been up here long enough now to almost understand the Yorkshire natives ;-)
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
WandrinAndy
Scan that pic carefully Adil.... He's maybe secreting the real critical ingredients. Such as can be learnt from that single picture.... I can now see that he is using a rigid connection to the planet to dampen resonance!
And whereas we've now seen a horizontal picture, I wouldn't be surprised if he was using it vertically!!
I've been up here long enough now to almost understand the Yorkshire natives ;-)
Vertical.3gp - YouTube :barbershop_quartet_
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
WandrinAndy
And whereas we've now seen a horizontal picture, I wouldn't be surprised if he was using it vertically!!
Yes it's now vertical and has been for over 10 months now and working better than it ever did when horizontal. Cutters are lasting longer and can cut deeper due to far less chip re-cutting. Don't need nearly has much blown air either and less mess. . :triumphant:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
The object was not to stop people from thinking for themselves, rather to encourage people to be able to produce a starter machine that has been expertly designed to eliminate some of the more common pitfalls, rather than help dig them out afterwards!!!
To promote discussion about general requirements for such a machine listing the pros and cons of various parameters and consider the cost/benefit of each idea. I am not suggesting that one size fits all, only that for a starter machine the requirement is fairly universal.
Yes, there are already enough designs and kits already available, but from many comments on this site it would appear that none of them are that good.
Many of the constructive comments made on build logs would seem to be about rail and gantry short comings, and most are generally fairly similar. I am sure we have enough expertise on this site to overcome most of these problems
If the first involvement with cnc leads to a successful machine build, surely that is better than a perhaps dubious purchase from elsewhere?
The machine design is only the fist step on what is a steep learning curve, the actual build, wiring cad cam and machining still have to follow.
Not everybody wants to start with a small (hopefully inexpensive) machine, but many do.
Not everybody with an interest in making things has an engineering background, the idea was to make it easier for one to get started and once bitten by the cnc bug who knows what could develop? G.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
wilfy
Hey I've got one like that . .:whistle:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
Whats the secret ingredient Jazz-that sheet of mdf lurking in the background? G
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Hey I've got one like that . .:whistle:
What happens when you need those axle stands to work on your motor? lol. Seriously how come you didn't chop half the frame off to bring it closer to the wall.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Not everybody wants to start with a small (hopefully inexpensive) machine, but many do.
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Not everybody with an interest in making things has an engineering background, the idea was to make it easier for one to get started and once bitten by the cnc bug who knows what could develop? G.
These 2 comments are just a few reasons why what you suggest will be so very hard to achieve.? But I hear what your saying and agree on the "Bug biting" to develop.
That said to get the ball rolling lets define clear parameters.!!
Materials to cut:
Size:
Desktop or Floor standing:
Budget:
Knowing these will define the design and materials to use plus equipment levels and skills required to achieve.
Then let the fun begin.!!
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Whats the secret ingredient Jazz-that sheet of mdf lurking in the background? G
Yep thats one of THE most important ingredient Geoff.?? . . . It keeps the fire going.!
Seriously now.!! An amusing now but scary then thing happened with that MDF.? It was used for the bed initially and the first Job was the obligatory Mach3 Road runner drawn with a pencil held in 1" square off-cut of Ali with hole drilled in end and pencil jammed in. It performed flawlessly and after many other doodles I was satisfied and set about some fine tuning and checking of the motors with dial indicator.
So while using the MDI (manual data input) I told the Z axis to go down 10mm.!! . . So I thought.?? Nope some how an extra zero slipped in and off it went on it's way 100mm down.!!! . . . . In the blink of an eye it punched a perfect 1" Sq thru 2 x 18mm mdf sheets and the Z axis didn't flinch just did has it was told. .:cower:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
I cant help myself so will jump in as well........
Other things to specify will need to be minimum tools required. Materials must be readily available from local suppliers where possible. It may also be worth speaking with the usual suppliers to price up a budget kit of parts ( motors, drivers and ballscrews etc).
for people without access to lager tools like lathes and mills will need workarounds to achieve the same goal???
At the end of the day we have been here before and it did not really go anywhere. for it to work it will need more than anything some dedication and for people to agree to disagree and keep it simple at all times. they can make the fancy bits when they have had the experience of going through a build. Hopefully they will have a machine at the end of it to do it.
There my 2p's worth
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
Iwant1
What happens when you need those axle stands to work on your motor? lol. Seriously how come you didn't chop half the frame off to bring it closer to the wall.
It was just a test to see if it would work before I hacked the frame up.!!. . . . . It's still in the exact same place with the same Axle stands and worked so well from the get-go I left it for when I got nothing to do.!! . . . . I'm still waiting.:whistle:
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
............... In the blink of an eye it punched a perfect 1" Sq thru 2 x 18mm mdf sheets and the Z axis didn't flinch just did has it was told. .:cower:
OMG... Your face when it started-> :culpability: and when it finished ->:yahoo: That's funny, its nice to know I'm not the only one who messes up every now and then.... Rick
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
Thanks Jazz, thats what I was hoping to hear!!
All parameters are up for discussion and can be collated (time limited?) to find the most popular needs. Remember this is a starter machine.
Materials to cut - should include Plastics,MDF plywood, hardwood, PCB material and aluminium (Ithink that probably rules out MDF construction).
Size - typical working area should be to optimise standard sheet (8'x4') use, so something like 300x400, 400x600 or 600x800
Desktop or floor standing - Desktop is perhaps prefered by most diyers due to space availability.
Budget - For hardware - up to 1K ish to include all rails, screws drives etc, and a spindle. As most people will not be VAT registered this should include VAT.
The design should also consider (small machine only) the use of fixed or moving table, and if the Z travel should be enough to incorporate a 4th axis later.
Whilst I have suggested the spindle price should be included, the type of spindle could vary according to the cutting requirements and could be a project.
To date this idea has not had much of a positive reaction, but lets give it a try.
As you said Jazz -let the fun begin (NOT let the sparks fly!). G
Another parameter to discuss -frame materials - steel/ally, sections or extrusions. G
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
2e0poz, glad you jumped in. As has already been said there will be some people on the site who are prepared to carry out some machining.
You are quite right that it would mean some serious dedication by some (probably the usual few who know what they are talking about - lets me out).
As this site has many clever and assertive people some may have to compromise a bit on what may be quite good ideas.
Your comment aboutkeeping it simple is absolutely vital and hopefully if they end up with a good machine - who knows what they could do?
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
The computor will always do as it is told (unlike the wife!) the trick is to tell the right thing. Impressive tho isn't it. G
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Materials to cut - should include Plastics,MDF plywood, hardwood, PCB material and aluminium (Ithink that probably rules out MDF construction).
Here comes the "Horses for courses".!! My experience shows me the best most successful machines are the ones optimised for one main purpose. At 1K working with spindle Etc then cutting Aluminium with any serious intent and surviving the experience can't be done successfully. Best kept to Woods, plastics, PCB, Composites etc.
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Size - typical working area should be to optimise standard sheet (8'x4') use, so something like 300x400, 400x600 or 600x800
Agree on sheet sizing and 8th sheet would be the optimal for desktop machine under 1K. So 650x650mm.
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Desktop or floor standing - Desktop is perhaps prefered by most diyers due to space availability.
If we want space saving how about Vertical.?
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Originally Posted by
GEOFFREY
Another parameter to discuss -frame materials - steel/ally, sections or extrusions. G
I'll say straight away that I'm taking NO further part in the discussion if MDF becomes part of the design other than for a Sacrificial Bed.!!
Size and budget will mostly determine Material used. Extrusion is expensive with the main reason for using being ease of use and this often needs expensive fasteners which will make 1K target harder to achieve.
Steel box section is far cheaper but requires more tools and for ease of use welding helps greatly but up's the skill level slightly (it isn't difficult at this level)
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
Jazz you correct, in the law of Paul "NO MDF shall be of use other than keeping the workshop warm upon fire". Keeping the cost down does not mean to skimp on the right material. All you will end doing is loosing money in the long run.
Choices are Steel or Aluminium.
I did play around with some solid plastic decking, would make a great bed :-)
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
See I already disagree with something Jazz has said lol, welding does up the skill level & the basic tools required unless a welder is to be included in the budget. Don't agree that it's easy at this level, yes for some people learning to weld may have been easy but that doesn't mean that it is for everyone, even the thought that this basic introduction machine needs to be welded is probably enough to put a lot of people off.
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Re: How about a mycncuk cnc router project?
This goes back to offering alternative methods like angle iron to make brackets with nuts and bolts? Decent saw and a pillar drill are the basic requirements for any build. Master the art of a centre punch and people should be able to build quite an accurate machine.
If you don't have a drill and saw then an allowance £200 would get added to the budget straight away. The reality is if can only build a budget machine right if you have the budget in the first place. problem is with budget builds also comes patience, many people don't want to wait.