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Denford Microrouter V4
just received the above machine today, does anyone know much about them?
it has a porters cable 23k spindle where is the best place to buy additional collets?
also is that a vacuum pump under the machine? what sort of vacuum table would I need to do work stuff on?
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...psmlp8ltpk.jpg
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...psdchnbftk.jpg
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Well done, bring on the retrofit !
.Me
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
ok im struggling its not going as well as id like
ive got a tiny amount of movement on the Y but cant get others moving
ive done in
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...psbf5bcv2g.jpg
but unsure if I need to do this
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps8dxpm1yy.jpg
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
lots of help, offered.
thanks
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
At first look it appears incompatible to me as your bob is lacking outputs pin 14 on port is usually linefeed or control 1 as used on board shown in spindle board diagram this is not available on your BOB I would contact DIYCNC on the email on instructions tho they may just say buy another bob or possible take feed directly from parallel port.
Knowing nothing about these particular boards I could not advise on non standard wiring.
Just noticed your using a smoothstepper so may be able to pick up 14 16 17 and Gnd from that again not familiar but from memory what I have read may be possible.
A quick google sugests this is possible but be aware that they use the old wiring on the board according to what I read 1-13 on one side and 14-26 on other standard now is odd one side even the other.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Looking at the datasheets, the BOB and V4 are not compatible.
Without swapping either component or buying a new BOB, I'd say wire the V4 straight to the second port on the SS.
You could buy a second BOB which uses common ground for the step/dir pins, but if you're only going to be using the second port for spindle control, I'd just wire it directly.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
with the help of a friend the v4 board is now connected and motor is spinning
but im having a new dro issues in mach.
motors are 200 steps / revDirect drive, no gearing.Lea
dscrew is 3mm pitch (1 rotation moves 3mm) waiting to get exact pitch from denford forum
Microstepping is 1/10 (stepper drivers are set to 10)
so:No. of steps per mm is = 200 * 10 * (1/3) = 667
but when I put 667 into steps per in mach the actual machine moves 550mm but I only get a reading of about 26 on the dro
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Your maths seems good.
What do you mean you only get a reading of 26?
What are you actually commanding?
And do you really mean 550mm?
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
m_c
Your maths seems good.
What do you mean you only get a reading of 26?
What are you actually commanding?
And do you really mean 550mm?
if I use the arrow keys on the keyboard to jog the x axis for example. I travel the whole length of the machine which is 550mm as stated in the denford manual but the dro readout in mach only say 128
so something isn't right
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
So it's out by a factor of 4.something.
Are you sure the microstepping is 10?
Easy way to check, is if you mark a motor pulley/screw, then request a move of 3mm, it should rotate one full turn. If it doesn't, then you need to work out why.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
run the auto configuration on the X,Y & Z axis on the settings tab bottom left above reset
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lucan07
run the auto configuration on the X,Y & Z axis on the settings tab bottom left above reset
im using machstdmill ive no idea how to get it back to normal mach screen set
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
I seem to have a recollection of certain drives having the switches the wrong way around, but if that was the case, you'd be out by a far larger factor.
Run the test like I said, and you'll know for sure if it's the microstep setting causing the numbers to be wrong or not.
I think you should be able to swap back to the standard screen by simply selecting the standard screen, however I've never used MSM. Regardless, I prefer to calculate the steps manually, as that way I know if something isn't set how it should be, or I've got a number wrong somewhere.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
If you run machloader create a copy of your setup its a good idea to have a standard screen setup to troubleshoot, and you could run autotune.
Are you sure not mixing Motor tuning and mach default mm's and inches 26x25.4 = 660 would only be 20% out closer than 400%.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
just managed to find and use the autotune which is a great feature.
but still not right, a full x movement of the table now reads 282, so better but not right.
some thing is very odd here
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lucan07
If you run machloader create a copy of your setup its a good idea to have a standard screen setup to troubleshoot, and you could run autotune.
Are you sure not mixing Motor tuning and mach default mm's and inches 26x25.4 = 660 would only be 20% out closer than 400%.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
You are using a smoothstepper so that I suspect generates pulses rather than PC, I would look closely at the smoothstepper settings if there is a multiplier or something there, some do for servo's to get up to speed. Some good videos on warp9 for setup I saw when considering the smoothstep
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
ok set the drivers to 32 steps and half current
used the auto tune feature and doing a full x travel I get 550mm, soft limt isn't working for some reason so I need to look into that
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
I got a soft limit bug in latest version went back to previous one ending .20 after hearing a fair few bugs in latest version.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
restarted mach and they are now working.
the machine is working, still need a smooth a few things out but its working
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...psdknzhfc0.jpg
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Its coming together that first cuts always the best
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
another issue I have is when left on standby the stepper motors get very hot, to hot to touch. I took them down from 3.2amps to 2.8amps, they still get way to hot it just takes longer for them to heat up now
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Many drivers have sw4 on for half voltage I believe this is for standby mode only to solve that problem, but if they are touchable they are probably not to hot they are designed to run hot.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
If I leave my triac on over night the motors are stone cold the next day.
If I machine for an hour and half the motors are still stone cold, so just seems odd on the microrouter
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Likely the way the standby is accomplished, e.g. a PC can be sleeping completely monitoring a 3.3v micro current or running lots uf stuff in background and just turning screen & disks off.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lucan07
Likely the way the standby is accomplished, e.g. a PC can be sleeping completely monitoring a 3.3v micro current or running lots uf stuff in background and just turning screen & disks off.
Lucan, that post just shows you've got little clue what you're talking about.
Denford are generally very conservative with their tuning. I've ran my little Novamill pretty much non-stop for 4 hours, and the motors only get warm. I suspect the conservative tuning, combined with being mounted to a relatively large lump of iron, means that they're not generating as much heat to begin with, and what heat is produced, is dissipated into a far larger lump of metal than a router.
I'm not aware of Denford using drivers that had reduced standby current, so I doubt that's why they remain as cool.
Why your router is running as hot, could be down to a few factors. Are you running a higher voltage supply? Are you running at a higher current setting than the original drivers?
Without going into specifics, a higher voltage essentially means the driver can force more current into the stepper motor when running at higher speeds (this is where your motor inductance figure comes into play), so the motor is producing more power and more heat.
A higher current setting will cause the motors to produce more power, and heat, while stationary and at speeds up to where the motor induction and driver power supply become the limiting factor as to how much current the driver can force through the motor.
So if you've increase either of those, then that's likely why things are running as hot.
From memory, I think it's acceptable to run steppers up to 80deg C, provided they're not getting that hot quickly i.e. it's fine as long as they take a couple of hours to get that hot. The big thing is that the iron core doesn't overheat to the point it demagnetises, as at that point the motor is only good for the scrap heap.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
I do know very little about Denford machines but I believe they use the Eurostep controller on the Triac, recovering from standby the Eurostep can sometimes need to be reset from the command prompt to enable the amplifier to start thus enabling power to drive to the motors which had been cut presumably by the standby/sleep state.
On the denford system thats getting warm control has been replaced by mach3 a smoothstepper 5 axis bob etc, its hardly a denford controlled or tuned system now, which is why I pointed out a possible difference.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
It must of taken a while for you to search for that answer, but it still would not explain why the motors don't warm noticeably after being run for a while.
FWIW Denford used a few different versions of Baldor CNC controllers, but something like a Triac would of most likely used Parker stepper drivers, which from what I remember don't have any kind of current reduction. They're either enabled, or disabled, but commercial machines will rarely disable drives, as you run the risk of losing position during disable/enable.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
My information comes from IT support,for a while I ran a local authority IT dept including education dept and a few Denford's it was one of the recurring jobs talking numpties through the reset, which is why its remembered.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
for info
Triac
running ESS, PMDX126 and original digi plan drivers, it use nema 43 steppers
there is a home brew board between PMDX and digi plan driver which came with the machine
microrouter
running ESS, BOB and drivers as linked to at the start of this thread.
steppers in the microrouter
stepper drivers are running on 36v and set to 2.8amps
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...psjmwo6w0v.jpg
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Andy, any idea what current the original drivers were set at?
Regardless, it looks like you're running the motors within their ratings, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. You could probably drop the current a little bit more if you're concerned, but it really depends on how conservatively or hard you want to run things.
One thing that I keep wondering about, is why the microstepping setting never worked how it should. If it was because the DIP switch was faulty, then the current setting could also be an issue.
It's probably not a fault, but was the step per setting a problem for all axis?
And are all the steppers getting equally warm?
Lucan, even at that, you keep posting what sound like definitive solutions without getting all the facts, which could quite easily cause more problems than they solve.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
How can it sound like a definitive solution when we were talking about a Triac that has no problem?
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
I'm bored tonight, so here we go from this thread alone
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lucan07
Many drivers have sw4 on for half voltage I believe this is for standby mode only to solve that problem, but if they are touchable they are probably not to hot they are designed to run hot.
If you had at least some clue, you'd know it's reduced current mode, not voltage mode. Getting a basic thing like that wrong could cause major issues for inexperienced people, or at the very least confuse their understanding of the settings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lucan07
Likely the way the standby is accomplished, e.g. a PC can be sleeping completely monitoring a 3.3v micro current or running lots uf stuff in background and just turning screen & disks off.
PC standby should have no effect on stepper motor current, unless the PC is shutting down enough to also shutdown the motion controller and disable the stepper drivers. Also, at this point, Andy had not even mentioned what system his Triac is running.
But given we now know it's Mach, if the computer shut down enough to drop communication with the ESS, I would expect Mach to display an error, or even crash when the computer exits standby.
However, I've never ran an ESS, and all my machine computers are set to never enter standby, and to only shutdown when requested to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lucan07
I do know very little about Denford machines but I believe they use the Eurostep controller on the Triac, recovering from standby the Eurostep can sometimes need to be reset from the command prompt to enable the amplifier to start thus enabling power to drive to the motors which had been cut presumably by the standby/sleep state.
On the Denford system thats getting warm control has been replaced by mach3 a smoothstepper 5 axis bob etc, its hardly a denford controlled or tuned system now, which is why I pointed out a possible difference.
So despite not knowing the Triac in question was running Mach/ESS, you posted up about a relatively obscure problem, that probably only affected certain controllers, despite the fact Denford fitted multiple different controllers.
Andy, sorry to do this in your thread, it's just that I hate seeing people post information that is wrong, irrelevant, and/or makes assumptions without knowing the facts or at least mentioning certain things have been assumed.
As I got drummed in to me during my apprenticeship, never assume anything, as it makes an Ass out of U and Me.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
m_c
I'm bored tonight, so here we go from this thread alone
If you had at least some clue, you'd know it's reduced current mode, not voltage mode. Getting a basic thing like that wrong could cause major issues for inexperienced people, or at the very least confuse their understanding of the settings.
Current/voltage reduced when not in use, how can this cause a problem?
[/QUOTE]
PC standby should have no effect on stepper motor current, unless the PC is shutting down enough to also shutdown the motion controller and disable the stepper drivers. Also, at this point, Andy had not even mentioned what system his Triac is running.
But given we now know it's Mach, if the computer shut down enough to drop communication with the ESS, I would expect Mach to display an error, or even crash when the computer exits standby.
However, I've never ran an ESS, and all my machine computers are set to never enter standby, and to only shutdown when requested to.
[/QUOTE]
I said triac probablty goes to standby like a pc and quoted pc modes as an example, no problem with this machine so whats your point.
[/QUOTE]
So despite not knowing the Triac in question was running Mach/ESS, you posted up about a relatively obscure problem, that probably only affected certain controllers, despite the fact Denford fitted multiple different controllers.
[/QUOTE]
I new triacs had that facility and problem so mentioned it, it was not regarding the faulty machine rather the one that was working!
Pick your dummy up and go troll somewhere else!
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lucan07
I new triacs had that facility and problem so mentioned it, it was not regarding the faulty machine rather the one that was working!
Pick your dummy up and go troll somewhere else!
What faulty machine?
You were the one who mentioned an issue which involved you assuming something, but not actually mentioning enough details about when that issue would apply.
BTW, my dummy is fine, and I'm not trolling. I'm just highlighting the misguided information in a few of your posts. If I was really trolling, I wouldn't bother explaining why your posts were misguided, I'd just post ill informed responses to see how much other BS you can come up with.
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
No idea what the last post says, as you're not worth talking too certainly not listening too PS theres a goat crossing the bridge!
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
just properly ran some code on the machine, I had ot stop after 20 mins as the motors burnt my hand to touch.
all 3 seems to be getting the same temp.
how do I go about trying to resolve this?
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Re: Denford Microrouter V4
If you are still running at 36v 2.8a I would try dropping it to 1.5a to see if they still heat up if they can't handle 1.5a maybe try some different drivers. Was the machine running when you purchased it or did you never see it running?