High speed spindle for Sieg X1

[ecat]

Thanks for the feedback Jonathan.

I read that the Chinese spindles lacked torque but not having seen any figures and in all honesty having no 'feel' for torque I was willing to take a chance on 2.2KW bettering the X1's 150W in most applications. All be it the X1's 150W is geared for torque I guess. I could always swap the original parts back in if necessary, so long as any changes I made were non-destructive, or buy a spare spindle housing from LMS - maybe 2nd time around I'll get my improvised oil ways right! The long and the short of steel on the X1 is no matter what, cutting will be compromised by the machine itself.

I did check out the brushless motors last time you mentioned them, got as far as watching a youtube video on replacing the shaft. Need a small arbor press, they're not so expensive and certainly cost less than a lathe. They are basically just supercharged stepper motors so loads of low end torque I guess dropping off with speed. At the time I was put off by the UK pricing of the motors, and fear of the unknown, but now I see hobbyking can ship from Germany I'll investigate some more.

What are you going to do with 6KW on a poor little C1?

[russell]

I was willing to take a chance on 2.2KW bettering the X1's 150W in most applications.

I wouldn't be so sure. From basic physics Torque is proportional to Power/rpm. So the X1's 150W will give approximately 60% more torque at 1000 rpm on it's low gear than a 2.2 kW spindle running at 24000 rpm (assuming similar efficiency). Of course, how well it behaves at lower speed will depend on the motor and controller design.

Russell.

[ecat]

I wouldn't be so sure. From basic physics Torque is proportional to Power/rpm. So the X1's 150W will give approximately 60% more torque at 1000 rpm on it's low gear than a 2.2 kW spindle running at 24000 rpm (assuming similar efficiency). Of course, how well it behaves at lower speed will depend on the motor and controller design.

Russell.

Thing is, I can do little to increase the speed of the X1, there may however be a way to increase the low rpm torque of the 2.2. Sensorless vector drive is available on some quite reasonably priced vfds, I do not know if such vfds can drive a Chinese spindle. The few I've looked at state 'standard induction motor', eg, http://www.inverterdrive.com/group/A...F/default.aspx .

The trade offs are:
More expensive than Chinese vfd but possibly more reliable
High end is caped to around 300Hz in vector mode
I have no idea if it would work - I know nothing of motors and drives

Nothing, it's a dick slapping contest because I drive my C0 with the 15Kw motor on the big TOS. :rofl:

Like an elephant humping a Chihuahua!

Anyway, enough dick play! We all want to see your list of 6040 improvements, costs and test results:clap:

[John S]

Anyway, enough dick play! We all want to see your list of 6040 improvements, costs and test results:clap:

Can't really answer that question as I have never seen one in the flesh, from all the Ebay pictures i have seen the build looks OK provided they have fastened everything up square and free.
What they don't show you is the control box internals but I reckon that if you cost out for a complete new box, transformer, cap, bridge rectifier, 3 drives and possibly a new breakout board you will have a bomb proof system.

I'm a big believer in having spare capacity and have found out that on the smaller motors that need 3 or 4 amps if you get the bigger 80 volt 7.8 amp drives and run them de-rated, they never get hot, never break down and fly.

Ok more expense but how much does a ruined job or having to mess with a machine when you are supposed to be earning really cost ?

If you know this figure needs to be costed in whether or not you go for it on day 1 is another point.

[ecat]

I'm a big believer in having spare capacity and have found out that on the smaller motors that need 3 or 4 amps if you get the bigger 80 volt 7.8 amp drives and run them de-rated, they never get hot, never break down and fly.

Agreed 100%, this applies to most things and not just steppers.

The problem is convincing the customer that the additional money is well spent, especially in a consumer product which is essentially what these Chinese routers are. Eg. Build a router with good electronics, it costs an extra 10% and some will gladly pay for the additional robustness, reliability and utility. My router design costs less and word gets around the internet that the controller is a bit dodgy but if it causes a problem then the cost of replacement is not so high and phrases like 'learning experience' are used to justify the gamble. I sell a shit load. Next thing you know, the manufacturer of the 'good' router has a cost reduced 'light' version for sale - they need it to stay in business. The sad part is that now the world + dog believe that this is the way routers should be. The up side is that many more people at least have the chance of getting their feet wet in the world of routers.

I'm lucky enough to have a full controller set-up, it will be fascinating to hear how the mechanics of these routers hold up.

[John S]

What are you going to do with 6KW on a poor little C1?

Nothing, it's a dick slapping contest because I drive my C0 with the 15Kw motor on the big TOS. :rofl: