Building My First CNC Router, Looking for Advice & Other Info

Thanks Clive,

This would presumably be the same output voltage as what the chap in the youtube video had? ~76v?

Certainly seems much cheaper even when you add in the plate to mount it on.

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Thanks Clive,

This would presumably be the same output voltage as what the chap in the youtube video had? ~76v?

Certainly seems much cheaper even when you add in the plate to mount it on.

Thanks

Alex

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The voltage should be around 68-70V Depending on mains voltage at the time.
I think he measured it without a load on it

The chap in the video has a full build blog on here aka Mr Joe Harris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

https://www.rapidonline.com/50a-brid...al-case-519318 1 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/samwha-h...acitor-11-3121 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/lcr-ep08...-clamp-11-3004 3 of

https://www.rapidonline.com/vigortro...-x-25v-88-0034

Some people like 24-0-24v I generally use the above

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I watched both videos now on building PSU I had a quick question he used 4 capacitors? You linked to 3 capacitors? Is this because the ones you linked to are more powerful? Or is there something else going on I don't understand.

I'm guessing the capacitors are just storing the energy to level out any surges? Is this correct?

Hi @Desertboy,


I remember you saying previously that you had ordered extrusion from KJN, out of interest did you need to tap the holes in the ends of the extrusion? I thought those holes were sized for an M10 thread to be tapped but they are too big, not sure if there is enough material there to get a M12 thread tapped. M11 seem expensive and the site where i have ordered my fixings from don't supply M11.

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Hi @Desertboy,


I remember you saying previously that you had ordered extrusion from KJN, out of interest did you need to tap the holes in the ends of the extrusion? I thought those holes were sized for an M10 thread to be tapped but they are too big, not sure if there is enough material there to get a M12 thread tapped. M11 seem expensive and the site where i have ordered my fixings from don't supply M11.

Thanks

Alex

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Hi I was convinced they were M10's (You maybe got that from me) so holes I had drilled were too small in the end I widened them myself. I never tapped the ends I used M12 bolts and drove them in using an impact driver and stainless steel A2 socket caps was still hard work with the impact driver lol but only took 15 minutes just heavy on the hands.

I used the T nut 90° corners to assemble at right angles the frame before I drove the bolts in then undid the corners and moved on to the next piece to try and keep everything as straight as possible. This was especially important on the bed frame which wants to twist when you drive the bolts in.

I recessed the gantry into the aluminium which removed any twist when I drove those bolts, when I tightened the gantry mounts to the Hiwin carriages the gantry sat it fine without any bolts perfect fit this really made it a lot easier. In fact if you don't recess I doubt you could do it the way I did. I have a 5mm recess either side in 20mm tooling plate.

I think it turned out ok
Attachment 22710

Attachment 22711

It could be done with a bar and a lever (I did a few like this) but it's very hard work. You could also drill the internal out with an the correct sized drill bit (Guessing 10.5mm or 11mm) then it'll be easier to tap.

In retrospect I should have had KJN tap it.

Hi Desertboy, your machine looks good, nice progress! I can now see why you did not tap the ends of the extrusion - what a f*cking nightmare! Fortunately KJN sent me two lengths of the incorrect extrusion that i quickly had a practice on, so the middle of the Extrusion is indeed a hole that is the correct size to tap an M12 thread in, HOWEVER as the diagram below, because the circle is within a square it makes it impossible to tap, once the thread has been cut into the circle material, it slips out and into the the 4 empty corners.

Attachment 22720

I think i will do the same as you and drive the bolt in to get the thread... I'm worried now that there isn't enough meat there to provide a strong connection.

In other news, my spindle kit, steppers, stepper drivers arrived. Just waiting on the PSU's, controller and some other little bits before i start mocking the machine up.

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Alex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Hi Desertboy, your machine looks good, nice progress! I can now see why you did not tap the ends of the extrusion - what a f*cking nightmare! Fortunately KJN sent me two lengths of the incorrect extrusion that i quickly had a practice on, so the middle of the Extrusion is indeed a hole that is the correct size to tap an M12 thread in, HOWEVER as the diagram below, because the circle is within a square it makes it impossible to tap, once the thread has been cut into the circle material, it slips out and into the the 4 empty corners.

Attachment 22720

I think i will do the same as you and drive the bolt in to get the thread... I'm worried now that there isn't enough meat there to provide a strong connection.

In other news, my spindle kit, steppers, stepper drivers arrived. Just waiting on the PSU's, controller and some other little bits before i start mocking the machine up.

Alex

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My profiles look different on the internal core.

Attachment 22721

Both my 4545 and 9045 have the same internal core

http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/a...20.html#SID=29

http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/a...KJN990300.html

e2a, Ah I see you have 4040 extrusion

Ahh man what a nightmare not sure im going to be able to get this to work then, spoke to someone at KJN who said that they tap M12 on the ends all the time? Must be doing it on a mill surely?

Alex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Ahh man what a nightmare not sure im going to be able to get this to work then, spoke to someone at KJN who said that they tap M12 on the ends all the time? Must be doing it on a mill surely?

Alex

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They have a machine for tapping the ends with clamps it's done horizontally (They can tap 6m lengths), you could ring round some engineering places local to you shouldn't cost you much to have them tapped it's not a hard job with the right setup.

Or put a request up in the jobs section on here someone on here will have the right kit.

I think tapping machines spin very slow but with very high torque so you can't do it with a stand drill press or dewalt. Impact gun might work BUT you'll probably just break even the biggest and strongest taps. I've seen decent impact guns by Snap on break seized wheel nuts in 1/2 lol.

My dad's company repairs lorries so I have access to some beefy and expensive kit.

How I did though was plough the bolt in the first few mm to centre the extrusion then I bolted 90° corners with T nuts to keep the extrusion straight whilst I drove the bolts in tight. Then unbolted the corner and T nuts and moved to the next one.

This won't work for the gantry but because mine was recessed it wasn't a problem as the aluminium couldn't twist when driving the bolt in. So I think the gantry will need to tapped or you will need to recess the extrusion into the gantry mounting plate.

Maybe you make a jig to keep the extrusion straight whilst you bolt it in. I wouldn't stress too much this is a solvable problem a PITA maybe but every first router build has to have it's drama it's traditional.

I learnt my lesson on the next build I'm going to go round either Zeeflyboy's, Routercnc or Clive S's house and steal their router, Chaz is safe with Thor I don't have a crane and I think my pickup would snap in 1/2 lol.

Yep might just have to run them to the shop up the road and let them deal with it haha.

Thanks again for the info mate!

Alex

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Yep might just have to run them to the shop up the road and let them deal with it haha.

Thanks again for the info mate!

Alex

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I've tried to be a real tight ass (Unsuccessfully) I originally wanted to build this for less than £300 lol so far it's costs just over £1500. What I was going to build would have been very rough lol, belt driven, single rail for the gantry nasty <£100 spindle and arduino driven. Glad I upgraded to Hiwin's all round, ballscrews, real electronics and PSU and 2.2kw spindle. I got real lucky this time unless I can find more machines to buy to scrap I won't be so lucky (Cheap) next time.

Next build I will try and be a bit more realistic with the budget from the start. I still have 2 * 1.3m SBR25 and 1*70cm rail and new bearings for a future project as well ;)

Well i threaded one of the extrusions, i started using the tap then drove the M12 bolt in after, not so great. Length is probably scrap now. Will run up the road tomorrow see if they can do it quickly.


Alex

Ok so bit of an update, i spoke to KJN and he gave me some tips on how to do it by hand and said that is best to use a Fluted Spiral Tap, managed to do the threads EASY and used the cordless drill to do it in no time at all, just goes to show with the right technique things are made easy!

However i am really pissed off with the M12 bolts i go from ACCU Group, they are A2 Stainless (55mm Long & 75mm Long), but they only thread 30mm of the bolt, this wouldn't be a problem if the un-threaded part of the bolt was smaller than the threaded part, i honestly don't see how you are supposed to use that bolt in any kind of normal application, i didn't order a bloody shoulder bolt, but that is pretty much what they supply, if you attempted to screw the bolts in, it simply squashed the thread in the extrusions. So i have had to thread the rest of the bolts myself - never again, they are just too tough!

On top of this, i ordered some M5 x 20mm "Precision Spacers" from ebay, well i will let the pictures explain:

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I dont have a lathe so what i decided to do was clamp each one in a pillar drill and drive it into sandpaper until the faces were square / true and they were the correct size.

Attachment 22763

I began to mock up the router using the 3D Printed parts today, found a few things that need sorting already so im glad i went this route of the dry build first.

Attachment 22760

Attachment 22761

Attachment 22762

One of the problems that really made rage was that i need longer spacers (yes the ones i painfully re-worked are no good LOL), the couplers are 5mm longer than the suppliers drawing of them, so i will need to source some longer ones and also longer M5 bolts to match.

Still waiting to hear back from a lot of useless engineering companies regarding prices and lead time for the aluminium plates, i noticed whilst scanning through a build the other day that a guy on here had supplied the aluminium plates for the build and they looked great - however i now cannot find the thread, can anyone point me in the right direction of someone on here who would be able to manufacture them?

Thanks

Alex

I ordered these, they were threaded to the end I ordered 50mm length (says 45mm is threaded but the whole 50mm was threaded)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M12-12mm%C...72.m2749.l2649

My gantry mounting plate thickness is 20mm but I recess into the aluminium 5mm so the bolts go 35mm into the extrusion it seems rock solid far far more so than when I assembled it with corners. I have enough corners to do it all without bolts and drilling but it just seemed to make sense to me that a big M12 35mm into the end is going to be stronger than a T nut and £35 drilling cost seemed ok given the hassle it would have been for me to line them up correctly. Having at least 1 (2 is better) corners with T nuts is very useful when you want to assemble it.

She's looking real good there! What are you going to use as a bed? I'm going to use MDF for now but limits my ability to use oil misting if I cut aluminium. It's a cheap solution of course but I mostly want to process woods, mdf & ply down the line once I've bought some decent compression bits from USA. I see where you corner mounts are (Where the nema's mount on the Y axis) you left a little overlap which means whatever material you use for a bed if you cut it to the correct size will fit snugly in on gravity alone. I'm going to make mine a vac bed so I'm not going to bother to bolt my bed in T nuts in the extrusion but you could do for extra strength.

Are you going to mount her on the table in the picture?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

She's looking real good there! What are you going to use as a bed? I'm going to use MDF for now but limits my ability to use oil misting if I cut aluminium. It's a cheap solution of course but I mostly want to process woods, mdf & ply down the line once I've bought some decent compression bits from USA. I see where you corner mounts are (Where the nema's mount on the Y axis) you left a little overlap which means whatever material you use for a bed if you cut it to the correct size will fit snugly in on gravity alone. I'm going to make mine a vac bed so I'm not going to bother to bolt my bed in T nuts in the extrusion but you could do for extra strength.

Are you going to mount her on the table in the picture?

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Hi Desertboy, recessing the gantry extrusions into the side plates sounds like a solid idea, maybe i could incorporate it without changing too much as i have already ordered most parts (except the ally plates).

In terms of the bed, i was expecting to use two types (or maybe even 3), like you say - using MDF as a spoilboard for wood cutouts will likely be one of the methods. I had planned to use a similar method for cutting with misting / coolant, our vacuum pods on our bigger machines here use a Phenlolic Plywood and Bakelight / Tufnol ( Link ), its an expensive material and awful to work with but is very resilient and will be immune to blowing out like normal MDF / Plywood when exposed to moisture. I was planning to use 18mm thick, and machine for those hammer-in threaded nuts to give flexibility in terms of mounting clamps / vices etc.

My 3rd method might be to make a basic vacuum table for machining the 1mm thick interdens / intumescent, however i think a few strips of double sided tape will more than suffice.

Yes you are correct i left those angles to help align any bed i fit easily, i will probably fix it to horizontal extrusions but nothing overkill just 2 or 3 bolts per length.

You say you are ordering quality cutters from the states?! Are there no suppliers here? We use cutters from a host of manufacturers, Calibre, Titman, Trend, FUL to name a few. Our main supplier for most of our tooling is a company called Littlehampton Cutting Tools, their MD is a nice guy called David Viney, excellent service and usually get the standard 20% trade discount when buying Trend cutters etc.

Right now im kind of at a standstill while i try and figure out some more fine details and source some more parts, im looking to get new spacers to mount the Nema23's, however struggling to find M5 x 25mm Threaded Hexagon Standoffs, RS Components sell them but only in bags of 50 (I only need 12).

I also had a price back for the ally plates from a company called Berry & Escott Engineering - The final price was £2624 Inc VAT!!! Does this sound about right? I was only expecting them to be around £1000, and i had left off a few small items that i thought 3D Printed parts would suffice for, and that i would run them myself once the machine was going, i am still looking for the chap on the forum here who had made some plates for another build, still cant find it, if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great.

PSU's & DDCSV1.1 Controller turned up today, i thought the controller was advertised with a PSU but it hasn't arrived with one so i will need to find a cheap 18 - 32v one to power it.

Thanks

Alex

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

I also had a price back for the ally plates from a company called Berry & Escott Engineering - The final price was £2624 Inc VAT!!!

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You could try posting a request for a quote here - RFQ. I know there are a few people here who have helped out others by making the aluminium plates for gantry sides & z-axis.

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i am still looking for the chap on the forum here who had made some plates for another build, still cant find it, if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be great.

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Is this what you are looking for:- post 119


http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...4311#post94311

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NB70

You could try posting a request for a quote here - RFQ. I know there are a few people here who have helped out others by making the aluminium plates for gantry sides & z-axis.

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I will make a post, thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Is this what you are looking for:- post 119


http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10880...4311#post94311

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That must be the one! Those plates look fantastic, i guess i will approach Chaz and see if he would be willing to give me a quote. Thanks for the link Clive.

Out of interest, i wondered if some of you more experienced members might have 5 minutes to spare, to take a quick look at my drawings and the the quote that was provided and see if you think it is reasonable?

Drawings & Quote

Thanks Again

Alex

What electronics have you decided on?

Also did you consider mounting the Hiwin's sideways on? I might be wrong but I went with sideways on because it simplified the build, the less complex your parts (And less part numbers) will reduce your cost but also less complex is easier to troubleshoot and fix potential problems.

My original design had a crazy amount of plates in it before I stopped to think about how to actually make it rather than what looked good in cad lol.

So electronics wise, i have:

4nm Nema 23's
Leadshine AM882 Drivers
DDCSV1.1 Controller
2 x 600Watt 68v PSU's
1 x 23Watt 24v PSU (for the DDCSV1.1)
2.2kw Water Cooled Spindle & Huanyang VFD
Will be using Mechanical Endstops / Microswitches

Had forum member Leadhead pop down today which was great, he had some great tips and recommendations on the build, especially the Nema mounts he suggested which will drastically improve how well they perform (no twisting when stepping).

Got some more bits to sort out but carrying on dry assembling and finding tweaks.

Also gearing up to get this done with the controller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ivxcOnEBBM

Thanks

Alex

Made some progress on the electronics enclosure over the weekend, few people have already mentioned about cooling and moving the VFD out, i got some methods to try and reduce EFI and there will be ~4 fans in the case for cooling.

Attachment 22810

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Starting to think about my wiring in general, how would it be best to run my Nema23's in Bipolar Parallel or Series? Considering i have 68v PSU's? Also, can anyone point me in the right direction of the name of the 8 pin twist a lock connectors i see commonly used?

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Made some progress on the electronics enclosure over the weekend, few people have already mentioned about cooling and moving the VFD out, i got some methods to try and reduce EFI and there will be ~4 fans in the case for cooling.

Attachment 22810

Attachment 22811

Starting to think about my wiring in general, how would it be best to run my Nema23's in Bipolar Parallel or Series? Considering i have 68v PSU's? Also, can anyone point me in the right direction of the name of the 8 pin twist a lock connectors i see commonly used?

Thanks

Alex

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Nice! Very neat there, I'm going to use a mini tower case for my PSU, steppers drivers & breakout board.

I'm mounting the VFD directly onto the T slot aluminium frame.

Quote:

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Starting to think about my wiring in general, how would it be best to run my Nema23's in Bipolar Parallel or Series? Considering i have 68v PSU's?

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Bipolar Parallel is the way.

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Originally Posted by Clive S

Bipolar Parallel is the way.

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That's actually how I like my women ;)

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

That's actually how I like my women ;)

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What about the 68V ?:whistle:

Motors has 8 or 4 cables, I miss that.

The motors have 8 cables, is there a way to wire in parallel whilst only trailing 4 core wire back to the driver??

Thanks

Alex

Yes, that's how it's usually done. Bring the 8 wires into some kind of junction box with a four-core cable coming out and going to the control box. You can hard-wire the four-core into the control box or use an appropriate plug and socket. I use XLR latching connectors but there are others. My "junction boxes" are 3D-printed (cheaper than small plastic boxes from Maplin) with choc block inside but as long as the cables are securely joined and protected, use what suits you.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/debox-in-l...ctor-box/8692h

Attachment 22815

From the manual

http://www.leadshine.com/UploadFile/Down/AM882m.pdf

Mine never came with a manual but I bought 2nd hand AM882's.

They're a little bit bigger than the usual choc-block style connector strip, but I've used a few of these which seem to work well. They also have the advantage that because they're spring-loaded, they are much less sensitive to vibration than screw terminals. Also, each wire goes into its own little socket so no need to twist wires together as you do with choc block - always end up chasing odd strands, trying to balance the lengths of wires, etc, when I use them. Don't know if anyone sells them in smaller quantities.

Thanks for the replies guys, think i've got my head wrapped around it now, would it be bad practise to splice & solder the wires then heatshrink it all up afterwards?

Thanks

Alex

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Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Thanks for the replies guys, think i've got my head wrapped around it now, would it be bad practise to splice & solder the wires then heatshrink it all up afterwards?

Thanks

Alex

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That's the way I always do it. Use screened 4 core and ground the screen to the star point in the control box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

They're a little bit bigger than the usual choc-block style connector strip, but I've used a few of these which seem to work well. They also have the advantage that because they're spring-loaded, they are much less sensitive to vibration than screw terminals. Also, each wire goes into its own little socket so no need to twist wires together as you do with choc block - always end up chasing odd strands, trying to balance the lengths of wires, etc, when I use them. Don't know if anyone sells them in smaller quantities.

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I thought I was the only one using those connectors...

Another advantage of them is the wide range of wire diameters they can handle. In my opinion, they are much better than screw terminal blocks. Basically, the only thing I find to their disadvantage is that they don't have any good way of fixing them, so if you are in need of using a few in a small space then the looks are not as nice as using screw terminal blocks. My PSU looks a bit messy because of this, but never the less, I find them very nice to use and practical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clive S

That's the way I always do it. Use screened 4 core and ground the screen to the star point in the control box.

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Thanks Clive, this is what i will also be doing then.

Done some more on the electronics whilst i wait for some bolts to come, also need to machine some mock up parts tomorrow to finish the dry assembling, then hopefully should get some movement early next week. Was confused as hell earlier trying to figure out wiring the VFD using single phase, actually it was simplest thing ever!

Need to decide if i want to mount the controller on top of the PC Case using some kind of Arm / Swivel attachment, then fix the PC Case to the Bench the machine will be sat on, or have the Controller as a portable unit. Not sure the machine is big enough to warrant a portable one.

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Thanks

Alex

Alex I would be putting some insulation over the mains terminals in the box before it bites you.:hororr:

Yeah i got a load of Heatshrinking to do, just wanted to make sure everything was functional before i made it pretty & safe :D

Alex

I love how you've done it all very neat, mine is going to like Beirut on a bad day lol.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

mine is going to like Beirut on a bad day lol.

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Not true that!

Anyone know where is a good place to get some Shielded 18Awg 4 Core Cable for my steppers?? Also I've seen a few recommendations on the net but wondered what people on here were using for the Spindle cabling??

Thanks again guys

Alex