Looks like email of manual pdf is not working .
Will try to copy electrical pages to a word doc and see if that is a better size to send. (Be after dinner though)
Printable View
Looks like email of manual pdf is not working .
Will try to copy electrical pages to a word doc and see if that is a better size to send. (Be after dinner though)
Hi john
i sent the stepper driver datasheet across via email, hopefully it will help.
I suspect that juice is not getting to the drivers cos not a single one of them are working.
I am about to tackle the supplier about his so called "working machine" . They never checked it .
If I can get the price reduced sufficiently to cover the cost of some new kit then i think i will go for building a new board.
I havent yet checked to see where things seem to be breaking down but that is next step.
It worked for me 118 pages. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by John11668
Sent a more brief version of the electrical content for what it is worth
John
the steppers lock up when lathe is powered, if so then some power is getting to the drives.
The dodgy wires under the top board were probably fitted by Boxford, i had a few on my original boards.
I would pick an axis button and check for continuity right back to the board, then check from the board connector back to the stepper drives.
Also check from the lower board.
Difficult to trace Inee!
It looks like there is a ring of black ground wires around most of the button switches , and each switch then has a signal wire at 10.6 volts dc.
I also presume that the motion is operated when each of those signal wires is grounded by pressing the button. All the wires seem to be supplied by the 34 wire ribbon connector which also connects to both Microprocessor (Bottom) board and to the feed regulator / potentiometer board on the back of the feed rate switch.
Difficult to follow the ribbon connections.
I wouldn't waste any time on it just gut it.!!
IME These things are like a box of chocolates and no two are ever the same and you don't know what's been messed or what works or doesn't unless you have seen it working.
Fit 2 x new drives run it on Linux CNC with a couple of parallel ports using £5 BOBS and away you go. Linux CNC is far better for lathe's than Mach3 as it allows multi-count encoders for things like spindle speed or MPG's.
Now I'm a long time Mach3 user and some would say fanboy, so for me to say Linux is better is like pulling teeth with pliers but it's a fact. Thou it's got a bit of a learning curve it will be the better option than Mach3 and much cheaper.
Could not agree more with mach3 for lathe
I’ve converted two lathes to cnc. A boxford B using pokeys and mach3 and a ORAC using linuxcnc. Linuxcnc is far better not to mention cost a fraction of the mach3 solution
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi Jazz and thanks for that. (and to depronman )Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I was sort of coming to that conclusion that I might need to start afresh, but from the diagrams it seems the spindle selection is run through the boards so just wanting to be sure that If I pitch the boards, I can arrange alternative signals for spindle forward / reverse , speed up , slow down.
Does Linux CNC run in a windows environment or do I have to install a linux operating system too?
Excuse the ignorance on this . My IT skills are limited .
Hi John,
Linux CNC using the Linux operating system. I would suggest you buy a cheap PC to run it on rather than dual booting with a windows PC.
I won't blow smoke and say straight off there is a bit of a learning curve to Linux CNC and I'm not an expert on it either so won't be much help, but it's got a very good Forum and there are a few Linux users on this forum, Clive S is the Linux CNc guru and if you go this route I'm sure he'll point you in the right direction.
Regards the Spindle controller then it will be simple enough to re-use, forward, and the reverse is done using Contacotors that are controlled with Outputs from the controller and the BOB will provide 0-10V signal required for speed control. This is standard stuff and nothing special or difficult to implement.
The only bit that will get more difficult is if you want to re-use the Jog buttons etc on the front panel rather than using from the screen. Well, it's not actually more difficult and easy enough to do but does mean you require more I/O so you might need a different board like a Mesa card which provides more I/O. But that would be the case no matter which controller you used.!
I suggest you go to the Linux CNC forum and have a look around. Linux CNC can get deep but it's infinitely scalable with the right Mesa cards and there are some very clever people who support it.!
Linux does sound a bit intimidating when and maybe a further complication. I think I would like to get this machine up and running before going to another level.
I have been thinking out of the box
My mill table has plugs on the drive board for each axis cable .
Attachment 28835
If I were to make two leads to plug into x and z sockets and connect to x and z motors on the lathe then I should at least be able to test the axis motors .
I do have Mach 3 on the computer so should be able to call up a Lathe profile and set it up.
I might not even need to buy any gear at all. A good Yorkshire solution maybe , but must be careful not to upset the Lancashire men
My tuppeneth... Yes, derisk and debug with a known state. I do think LinuxCNC may be something to consider down the line (I use it on my ML7) but walk before you can run.Quote:
Originally Posted by John11668
Just remember to set the motor current appropriately.
It should work for testingQuote:
Originally Posted by John11668
Long term it would not be a great solution
Are the stepper voltages similar?
Re linuxcnc for a basic setup the step and configure wizard will work perfectly
Download the package and burn it to a DVD then pop it in a laptop or desktop and let it boot from the cd. You will be able to run a ‘test’ version to get a feel for it before you install it to a hard drive
I can talk you through the very basics of linuxcnc if it helps
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is one of the best and easiest to use linuxcnc Mint 19.3. Download
http://cnc.beaglebrainz.net/cdimage/...pace-64bit.iso
Then use https://www.balena.io/etcher/ This will make a bootable usb stick
Then set the bios in the PC to boot from USB
its as simple as that.
If you have the drives already then it's a no brainer to use for both. Clive S did this for years and run a Mill and Lathe from same Control box using a change over switch. Obviously you can't run both together but how likely are you to ever do that.?
Like Depronman says for a basic setup the Linux CNC Config Wizzard is easy enough to use and it costs nothing to try. You already have a working machine and know all the I/O pins so just try a Config with the settings for your Router and plug into a parallel port. Lathe is pretty much the same just less axis.
Will give it a try if only to prove the steppers.
Then maybe play a while maybe before I try linux. I suspect I will need some hand-holding if /when I get to that stage .
The computer I am using here cost me £50 3 years ago , and if initially I am not paying for drivers another one at £40 from Ebay isn't gonna break the budget.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Opti....c100005.m1851
And part of the cost will be getting paid by the guy who told me this was a working machine , only he doesnt know it yet.
What sort of a machine spec will I need to run linux and Am I better with 32bit or 64
And PS Anyone fancy a pair of Boxford boards to fix ?????
I plumbed for the standard Stretch 2.7 64 bit linux distro. You don't need much to get linux to run, but it needs to run well enough - there's a kernel utility to monitor jitter on the real-time scheduler... On a little i5 (Viglen Genie) that's rock solid, other end of the spectrum with a thin client (AMD Dual-Core T56N) it was useless - at least out of the box. Bear in mind that your real-time performance becomes more critical with parallel interfaces and particularly using a software encoder set-up for spindle position (for threading). I wouldn't aim too low in terms of machine spec. Also, think if you're planning to use Parallel (probably best for a quick intro to LinuxCNC) - in which case make sure that you buy a desktop with parallel port. If you do ultimately go Mesa - I'd suggest a dedicated ethernet port for that - but that's easily added later down the path (though compels you to a machine that will take expansion cards).
LinuxCNC will frustrate you, at least at first. For me I'm still frustrated (why oh why doesn't Axis GUI allow a preset spindle speed on a lathe - and yes, the documentation says it does... but it lies!). Oh yeah - get used to substantial parts of the configuration being dependent on your choice of UI.
Damn, just noticed 2.8 is out. Maybe that's a job for later (I don't care for the older Debian installs). Interestingly there's a new Pi install - I'm not convinced on the merits of a Pi in this role, though. Anyway - 2.8 - don't believe there's much to backup to roll the version/Linux distro forwards. I'd be interested in anyone's experience of this (my current "reconfiguration" of my machines is currently in the heavy lifting phase... be nice to play with the Linux environment instead).
64bit as that is the most popular with linuxcnc.Quote:
Am I better with 32bit or 64
See my post re the linuxcnc ISO.
Hi folks
Both axes jog fine when attached to my PC and Drivers, using my current mill profile and jogging X and Y so looks pretty much like the driver PCB in the machine is shot.
I will set up a lathe profile on Mach 3 just to check that I can operate that!
I will then go back to suppliers and see what they suggest with regard to their misleading description and the work I have put into getting to this point. I think I will insist on a replacement board at least , even if I do not use it.
Nice one ,at least you can move forwards now.
:cool:
I don't think it means it shot, it might just need the Boxford software to work.? I don't think all of them will operate from the front panel without the Software but i could be wrong.!Quote:
Originally Posted by John11668
Also you do realise it's X and Z axis on a lathe, you won't find a Y-axis in the Mach Lathe profile.
I did realise that Jazz but just using the mill outputs for X and Y to drive x and z motorsQuote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Engineer believes that the panel should permit manual jogging provided the manual button is selected on. This is also required for the spindle motions to work.
You may be correct but they told me that the machine was in full working order which of course I cant test , but neither could they. I can only presume that their engineer knows his machines. Used to work for Boxford they tell me .
Does anyone have one of these working on Boxford software who could confirm or otherwise ?
i have two boxford tcl
the first and all original, driver transformer, capacitors, wires, etc.
we have only replaced the original card, created with the same fixing holes, a slightly modified mach 3,
the lathe did not have the cnc turret, I found 2 photos in 2d, I processed them with solidworks and I created a cnc turret, made to make the pieces in china.
added a 3 amp driver and the turret turns, all ok
the second cnc lathe had already been retrofitted, they had removed a large amount of the original system leaving only the spindle driver and motor, transformer.
the retrofit had been done by the old owner but it didn't work, it had some bloblem bugs,
with an experienced friend, in 2 days to solved. had to study all the previous changes and find the errors.
now it works fine.
front panel disabled, only emergency button works.
Hi All
And thanks for your contributions
Am waiting for response from vendor before I decide how to proceed.
Ideally I think I would like to see the machine working on its own panel and if a replacement board gets me there I will press for that.
Then I will look to providing computer inputs from Mach 3 initially before I take the plunge with linux .
So that is current plan . I recognise though that things do not always go to plan, ( well certainly not for me !)
Still awaiting decisions from supplier .
Says he will take the machine back and refund my purchase price , but I have spent so much time on this now and fixed a number of things , that i am reluctant to see that all go back to his benefit .
Additionally he wont reduce his purchase price even though this "full working order" machine turned out to have a dead short, no spindle supply, faulty interlocks and suspected dead driver board.
He maintains he is only obliged to give my money back , no obligation to pay me for work done , even though his "engineer " authorised it .
May have to start naming and shaming!
Right so not much further forward with supplier , and engineer seems to be struggling, but he confirms the machines do work on manual without computer connection or Boxford software.
He is offering to exchange it for a TCL 160, with Turret, and all motions working for about £600 which would take my total expenditure to about £1150 but no account for any work I have done so far. Maybe a bit of haggling needed!
I can see what folks are asking on Ebay but have no Idea what a reasonable value would be for such a machine. What do folks here think??
In addition and going back a few pages here, http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/13959...-TCL-125/page4 , on the pictures of the boards the processor board seems to have an empty slot , just above the one with the green lablel.
Anyone think this might be significant?
Your call but if he has offered to take the machine back for a full refund then I would go with that.
Yes you have done quite some work but you've also learned a good deal. Perhaps going back into the market with all your funds intact, and knowing as much as you do now, particularly a little more about what to look out for, you will be able to decide whether buying from a dealer offers any advantages.
I think we have moved on a bit , Clutchslip.Quote:
Originally Posted by clutchslip
When I started this thread it was about whether I could make a decent project out of a TCL125 and what might be the best route for that bearing in mind it had been described as working when it wasnt..
So the current offer is for a replacement of that with a TCL160, all motions working and including a turret for about £600 more . I am trying to get advice on whether this is a good deal, or do I stick with the 125, insist on a reduced price ( to finance the parts needed to make it work) and then embark on that as a project.
Seems to come down to whether a TCL160 with turret is good value at £1100 .
I would say it’s a fair value for tcl160
The decision really comes down to your needs. Is a turret tool changer on your list of nice to haves
My person experience of cnc lathes (I have two a Boxford bud that I converted to cnc and an ORAC that I bought as a shell but in nice virtually unused condition and replaced all of the electronics) is that a good quality quick change tool post works well for me
The auto tool changer are good but come with there own limitations so it’s not as clear cut as it would seem at first
If you have a need to make hundreds of the same part then the auto tool changer is a must have but if you are mainly making 1 and 2offs then the manual quick change tool post is a better option if you are making 10 to 20 offs then personally I think the manual tool post is still the better solution
I bought into the QCTP with the splined tool post Swiss made originally. It allows for very accurate tool positioning and takes a few seconds to change tools I have 10 tool holders all pre set with tools that are shared between the two lathes all tools being stored in the tool table in Linux cnc
I can turn brass and ally and stainless steel all day long on the orac to tolerances of +/- 0.0005” and less with care. The tool repeatability is excellent
Also of note the 160 is a slightly larger machine than the 125 but from memory not my very much
Hope this gives you a little more info to base your decision on
One last thing to think about is the 160 working on original boxford electronics or has it been converted to modern drivers motion controller bob etc and if so is it locked to mach3 or open to other control software such as Linux cnc
If still on boxford electronics then at some point in the future it is likely to need to be changed over to modern electronics (stepper drivers, BoB or motion controller etc
All the best. Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very nicely put PaulQuote:
The auto tool changer are good but come with there own limitations so it’s not as clear cut as it would seem at first
If you have a need to make hundreds of the same part then the auto tool changer is a must have but if you are mainly making 1 and 2offs then the manual quick change tool post is a better option if you are making 10 to 20 offs then personally I think the manual tool post is still the better solution
I bought into the QCTP with the splined tool post Swiss made originally. It allows for very accurate tool positioning and takes a few seconds to change tools I have 10 tool holders all pre set with tools that are shared between the two lathes all tools being stored in the tool table in Linux cnc
Spoilsports!, just as I start to figure out how to integrate a baby atc onto my ml7 you’re saying don’t throw away the QCTP 🙁
It’s horses for course really
I spent ages looking for an atc for my orac lathe. Decided they are like hens teeth and therefore bought the same qctp as my boxford so it could share tool holders between the machines
I’ve been so impressed I stopped looking for an atc
My jobs tend to be 1 to 20 offs so this works for me
If I was doing 200 offs regularly then the answer would no doubt be different
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's a no brainer to me that you get as much money off as possible and gut the machine. No way I'd pay £1100 for 160 which you'll still end up gutting at some point.
Or I'd get the money back and look for another cheaper 125 or 160 and gut that. Either way, if you are using an old Boxford you'll likely end up gutting it for new electronics.
Maybe then it comes down to whether I want a working lathe or a project???
Have to think about that . TCL 125 will give me more of a project and If you are telling me that Boxford boards will need replacing in the future then maybe haggle a bit more off that to fund the replacement boards .
And as it is already standing in my workshop then maybe the way to go
Nice to have the other views on whether the ATC actually is as valuable as it sounds.
As the 160 been converted to use from a pc or does it need the boxford software ?
This is important if you want a working lathe out of the box as boxford software is both expensive and they may well not even sell it to you
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Like Depronman says ATC isn't all that.!! .. . .esp the Boxford ATC which IMO are sloppy dinky toys with weak motors, the slightest friction or unbalance and they bind.
If you are not planning on leaving it unattended then a good QCTP will be stronger and more accurate.
I cant imagine there would be any software included so I expect to have to suss out how to connect whatever software i choose to go with.Quote:
Originally Posted by depronman
All noted ! Will think about it over the weekend but you guys are swaying me away from160Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Thinking about this to day.
I will go for the step by step approach and stick with the TCL125 as a conversion project. Maybe a step on the way to something more purposeful.
So I will fillet this , hopefully retaining the the lenze controller for spindle operation, and build a new board with Bob and a couple of stepper drivers, (Cheap chinese variants) .
Will think about the manual panel. It would seem like a nice option. But if all fails may try to include a touch screen .
Would be nice to be able to establish if the existing boards work so if anyone is interested it would be nice to come to an arrangement ?????? Otherwise I just get stuck in !
New thread probably needed for the way forward!