Building My First CNC Router, Looking for Advice & Other Info

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Anyone know where is a good place to get some Shielded 18Awg 4 Core Cable for my steppers?? Also I've seen a few recommendations on the net but wondered what people on here were using for the Spindle cabling??

Thanks again guys

Alex

---

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALL-CY-CAB...72.m2749.l2649

Ring around electrical wholesalers in your area for CY cable or just buy it off ebay but if you do buy online buy at least 50% more than you think you need lol.

I have 1.5mm for spindle cable and 0.75mm for the steppers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desertboy

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALL-CY-CAB...72.m2749.l2649

Ring around electrical wholesalers in your area for CY cable or just buy it off ebay but if you do buy online buy at least 50% more than you think you need lol.

I have 1.5mm for spindle cable and 0.75mm for the steppers.

---

Cheers mate that looks perfect will have a phone around, can i use this stuff for the spindle too?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Cheers mate that looks perfect will have a phone around, can i use this stuff for the spindle too?

---

Yes it's good for the spindle but make sure it's CY not SY cable this is very important as SY cable is not at all flexible. Also SY is a lot more expensive (It's armoured). I use a company called Rexel Senate for wiring you could see if you have a branch locally. Prices were similar as ebay but without the postage and of course you can get it today/tomorrow.

http://wfsenate.co.uk/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desertboy

Yes it's good for the spindle but make sure it's CY not SY cable this is very important as SY cable is not at all flexible. Also SY is a lot more expensive (It's armoured). I use a company called Rexel Senate for wiring you could see if you have a branch locally. Prices were similar as ebay but without the postage and of course you can get it today/tomorrow.

http://wfsenate.co.uk/

---

http://www.cablechoiceguide.co.uk/ca...ontrol-cables/

The differences between the three cables are as follows:
CY Cables are used when interference-free transmission is needed. The CY Cable has a Multi-core Flex and a tinned copper wire braid and a PETP (Polyethylene Terephthalate) separator. All these work together to protect the cable from external electromagnetic influences and mechanical stress.

YY Cable works well within light mechanical stress and is suited to most environments. It is very versatile so can be used outside when protected and in dry and moist conditions inside.

SY Cable is the strongest cable from this family. It offers reliable mechanical protection and the galvanised steel wire braid makes it ultra strong and durable.
Control Cable Similarities
All three cables have similar properties. They are all highly flexible Multi-core cables with copper conductors (Class 5) and have a voltage rating of 300/500V.

Not sure what size energy chain you have but I only just managed to squeeze 2 lines (1 0.75mm for the Z axis motor and 1 1.5mm for the spindle) in my smaller energy chain (this spans the gantry) and luckily I got a wider chain for the Y axis as it will have an extra lead going through it (Gantry motor).

My energy chain is this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-20mm-...72.m2749.l2649

and this one is the bigger stuff for the Y axis
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-cm-R3-...72.m2749.l2649

I couldn't get my water lines in the chain but I didn't want the water running in the energy chain with electrical wiring anyways lol.

Thanks for your replies guys, i ended up getting a reel from RS Components for about £50 and some marine grade connectors whilst i was there. Had some movement out of the X & Y Axis! Fastest they seem to be able to Jog at the moment is 12500mm/min, i have not played with any acceleration settings yet. Waiting for 2 x DB25 Breakout Boards and DB25 2m cable to come so i can start properly wiring the controller, at the moment i've just run some cables to test movement. Also got the new Samsung Note 8 so now i can take photo's that don't look like they were taken on a potato.

Ordered some 40 x 15mm Cable drags, which should give me enough space to run 4 Lots of the CY Cable and also the Coolant Lines for the spindle. Need to start looking at what endstops i would like to use, i have a hole bag of micro switches that i could use but i think i would like to use some nice LED Inductive Sensors.

Made a start on modelling a hand held case for the DDCSV controller so that it can easily be carried around the machine to any position, it will also have a stand it can be put on.

I decided that it might be better to fix the machine to the bench it will be on, will this be satisfactory in terms of absorbing some vibrations or should i look at filling the extrusions with resin? What resin should i look at if this is the case?

Attachment 22878

Attachment 22879

Attachment 22880

Attachment 22881

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtGNW1Hj72M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIgZ-pfJp7I

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Also got the new Samsung Note 8 so now i can take photo's that don't look like they were taken on a potato.

---

...now you must practice how to set the orientation right. The pictures are nice but they are all (even the videos) turned 90 degrees... ;) I mean, the videos are supposed to be taken with the phone in horizontal orientation otherwise you are wasting image surface area.

Anyway, it is really a very nice machine you are building. The only thing I notice is that you seem to have made the same mistake I did regarding the Z plate. The linear bearings should be the other way round, the rails moving up/down and the bearings fixed. If not too late you should change that. For me it is too late now, but it sure will be the first thing I'll correct next time I upgrade my CNC.

The machine looks good, it seems you are getting close now!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A_Camera

...now you must practice how to set the orientation right. The pictures are nice but they are all (even the videos) turned 90 degrees... ;) I mean, the videos are supposed to be taken with the phone in horizontal orientation otherwise you are wasting image surface area.

Anyway, it is really a very nice machine you are building. The only thing I notice is that you seem to have made the same mistake I did regarding the Z plate. The linear bearings should be the other way round, the rails moving up/down and the bearings fixed. If not too late you should change that. For me it is too late now, but it sure will be the first thing I'll correct next time I upgrade my CNC.

---

Lol I took the photos portrait and they are portrait on my PC, so not sure why they have uploaded rotated! Schoolboy error on the video though haha

That's an interesting point about the Z Bearings, so is the point of this to be able to spread the bearings further apart?? Maybe I could change the design, I'll have to have a play around with the CAD model.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nickhofen

The machine looks good, it seems you are getting close now!

---

Thanks, still a way to go yet I feel!

Thanks

Alex

If you look at the geometry of the Z plates and imagine both ways of positioning rails and bearings, you will see that you get better support of the moving plate through its full travel if you put the bearing carriages on the fixed plate. It feels wrong at first, but it's the right thing to do! The rails also provide a slight stiffening effect on the moving plate as well, although if you use the usual 20mm plate, that's not going to matter much.

While I agree, it was pointed out to me that it can make the Z-axis less versatile... it can limit the ability to retract the Spindle and tool above the gantry base height which can cause problems when using long tools and/or tall stock.

Just worth considering if that sort of thing is on the agenda.

No argument there - good engineering is all about compromise, and understanding the trade-offs so you pick the right compromise is important.

Having had a QUICK look, im mot sure that will work for me as I need to be able to get a 80mm tall workpiece in there and machine at least half way through,l. I will have a more detailed look tomorrow. I am probably going to space the carriages out slightly more and sacrifice travel at the lower limit as it will currently reach below the horizontal braces with a tool in the collect.

Thanks for the advice guys I appreciate it.

Alex

So i adjusted some of the components of the Z Axis to hopefully improve how rigid it is, previously that blocks that connect the Spindle Mount to the Linear Carriages were shorter than the Spindle Mount, in order to try and maximise Axis Travel, however in reality this meant that the spindle could reach well below the bed even without a tool in the collet, so i decided to make the Connection Blocks longer and increase the spacing of the Carriages.


Attachment 22883

I started looking today about how i need to properly Ground the Spindle at the VFD side, whilst looking for information i came accross a forum post on CNCZone that said many of the Chinese spindles do not have their Ground pins connected to anything inside the Spindle, so i decided to take the top off and have a look - and not much of a surprise as the Ground pin was not connected to anything. Where can i connect this to? Should i just drill and tap a hole so that a connector can be screwed to the casing and soldered the correct pin?

Attachment 22884

I've also been scouring the net today trying to find some nice proximity sensors to be used as limit switches, i think the DDSCV1.1 can use 12v limit switches? Could be wrong any advice would be appreciated.

Also waiting for the Cable Drags and breakout boards to arrive so i can design some brackets and a portable enclosure for the controller.

Also been searching for the correct resin to fill the extrusions with, anyone have any personal experience / recommendations?

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

---

Where can i connect this to? Should i just drill and tap a hole so that a connector can be screwed to the casing and soldered the correct pin?

---

I just changed one of the socket hold down bolt to one a bit longer and put a connector on that with a nut.

Make sure you clean the water holes and put a little silicone around them to make a good seal when you put the top back on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clive S

I just changed one of the socket hold down bolt to one a bit longer and put a connector on that with a nut.

Make sure you clean the water holes and put a little silicone around them to make a good seal when you put the top back on.

---

So simple - yet so brilliant ;) :D Thanks i will do that.

Thanks for the silicone tip i will pop out and grab some tomorrow.

Do you have any idea about the resin for the extrusions?

Thanks

Alex

I was considering filling the extrusion with resin but I asked around the forums and was told it was a waste of time.

I also spoke to a fibreglass guy who told me to use polyurethane with metal filler.

In the end not going to bother this time but will consider it in future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desertboy

I was considering filling the extrusion with resin but I asked around the forums and was told it was a waste of time.

I also spoke to a fibreglass guy who told me to use polyurethane with metal filler.

In the end not going to bother this time but will consider it in future.

---

I did some digging and came to same conclusion, think i will make the bench very heavy duty and fix the machine to it.

Havn't had as much time as i'd hoped the last few weeks to get much done, got all of the stepper wiring done, the cable drags turned up which meant i could get the lengths correct for the cables. I now have all Axis moving which is a nice milestone in the build. Ordered some Inductive Proximity sensors to act as limit switches, they seem to activate about 1.5mm from Aluminium, which should be ok for me. I need to do some research on the controller, as it has Terminals for Min, Max & Home for each Axis, what would be the scenario where you would have Home different to Min? Do some machines have Home at the Max or maybe Bed Centre?

Attachment 22989

Attachment 22990

Attachment 22991

Attachment 22992

Also need to order some Screw Connectors for them.

Got the Spindle wired in also, just need to configure the VFD properly, watched a few videos online which seems to be simple enough.

Also got through EMI / RDI Ferrite Rings for the Spindle cable to try and help reduce interference from the Spindle / VFD (whether it will or not who knows).

Current task is designing a portable enclosure for the DDCSV controller and the Parallel Breakout Board, i got two breakout boards, one to on the Electronics Enclosure and another to go with the DDCSV in its portable enclosure.

Cheers

Alex

Alex
Have you thought about the switches, the way you have them is asking for them to get squashed they might be better mounted so that they slide over the target

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clive S

Alex
Have you thought about the switches, the way you have them is asking for them to get squashed they might be better mounted so that they slide over the target

---

Haha don't say that and jinx me :D - Do you mean so that they would be similar to how I have done the Y Axis ones?

Attachment 23009

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Haha don't say that and jinx me :D - Do you mean so that they would be similar to how I have done the Y Axis ones?

Attachment 23009

Thanks

Alex

---

Exactly. You have the switches ready to get squashed:hurt:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clive S

Exactly. You have the switches ready to get squashed:hurt:

---

Thanks, i will try and re-work those, at the moment those positions were the simplest and gave the maximum Axis Travel.

Thanks

Alex

Great build!
Fast going and looking good.
I know nothing about the strength of 3d printed parts but are they strong enough to hold the bearings on your long axis?

The printed parts that hold the bk/bf bearings are also subject to big loads... but as I said.. they might be up for it? ;)

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Great build!
Fast going and looking good.
I know nothing about the strength of 3d printed parts but are they strong enough to hold the bearings on your long axis?

The printed parts that hold the bk/bf bearings are also subject to big loads... but as I said.. they might be up for it? ;)

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

---

Hi there,

Thanks! I am only using 3D Printed Parts to dry assemble the machine. Once i am happy with how everything fits they will be replaced with aluminium :)

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexDoran

Hi there,

Thanks! I am only using 3D Printed Parts to dry assemble the machine. Once i am happy with how everything fits they will be replaced with aluminium :)

Thanks

Alex

---

Now I'm truly envious!
What an fantastic way to build...

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nr1madman

Now I'm truly envious!
What an fantastic way to build...

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk

---

The 3D Printed Parts are only 25% Solid, even so they are fairly tough and rigid - i'm sure you could print them much stronger than they already are (Increase the Wall Thickness and Infil % ). However it will never offer what Aluminium will. Great and very cheap / fast way to prototype!

Alex

So i pretty much finished the wiring, and ran the coolant lines for the spindle, tried to semi tidy the cables & pipes.

I started working on getting the Limit / Home switches working but i have been an idiot and bought the wrong type of probes, the DDCSV expects a 12v signal from the probe, but mine are NPN and not PNP so i am pretty sure these are not going to work directly with the controller, bit of a pain considering i already soldered them to the longer cables etc, now i need to try and source some PNP variants that are the same size, and dont cost £40 each.

I also wired the VFD to the controller, however when i try to run the spindle, the display on the VFD changes but nothing actually on the spindle, not sure if i have it configured properly, followed a youtube video, but also read a DIY guide that had conflicting information about some of the Hertz values, also i am trying to signal VFD from the DDCSV using the 10v pwm signal, i had the control parameters (PD001 & PD002) on the VFD set to 1 but i think this needs to be 2.

Any advice or help on any of these points would be greatly appreciated.

https://preview.ibb.co/bHXGLm/20171019_170131.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/nwVE6R/20171019_170139.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/d2rXt6/20171019_170152.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/n1HGLm/20171019_170158.jpg

Alex

By pure luck i have managed to find some rather nice (and expensive Balluff Brand) Proximity Sensors in my brothers shed (He is the maintenance guy at work), he only had 4, which is ok as it means i am able to the machine homed, and perform some more tests, and actually - im not sure that i even to have Max Limit Switches? There is a Software Travel Limit that is defined and seems to work very well, im not sure if these get ignored when running a program so i will have to check that out.

However now i can only seem to get the Z Axis to move in one direction, i was thinking that it must be a loose / funny connection somewhere since i had been tidying all of the wiring up. However if there was a problem with the wiring would the Stepper even move in one direction at all?

I was also curious as to how the Axis should be orientated, currently the X (my longest Axis) and the Y both home to minimum - Position 0, and then move positively through the co-ordinates- for example 0 -> 1010mm. However i know that our big machines move negatively, eg: 0mm -> -3000. Is there a standard way of setting this out? What are the implications, do they just affect how you need to setup any post processing configuration from SolidCAM, Fusion etc?

Im also curious about how the Z Axis is orientated too, when moving positively it travels upwards - the homing is set to minimum but when homing it searches upwards. Possibly this is because of the problems i am having with the Axis.

Thanks

Alex

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexDoran

So i adjusted some of the components of the Z Axis to hopefully improve how rigid it is, previously that blocks that connect the Spindle Mount to the Linear Carriages were shorter than the Spindle Mount, in order to try and maximise Axis Travel, however in reality this meant that the spindle could reach well below the bed even without a tool in the collet, so i decided to make the Connection Blocks longer and increase the spacing of the Carriages.


Attachment 22883

I started looking today about how i need to properly Ground the Spindle at the VFD side, whilst looking for information i came accross a forum post on CNCZone that said many of the Chinese spindles do not have their Ground pins connected to anything inside the Spindle, so i decided to take the top off and have a look - and not much of a surprise as the Ground pin was not connected to anything. Where can i connect this to? Should i just drill and tap a hole so that a connector can be screwed to the casing and soldered the correct pin?

Attachment 22884

I've also been scouring the net today trying to find some nice proximity sensors to be used as limit switches, i think the DDSCV1.1 can use 12v limit switches? Could be wrong any advice would be appreciated.

Also waiting for the Cable Drags and breakout boards to arrive so i can design some brackets and a portable enclosure for the controller.

Also been searching for the correct resin to fill the extrusions with, anyone have any personal experience / recommendations?

Thanks

Alex

---

Nice one both you and Clive tested my spindle today with an ammeter and it's obviously pin 4 is not connected to anything ;)

Will do as Clive suggested, were the top bolts hard to undo? I tried and felt some resistance like I have some loctite to break didn't want to push it until I asked had a nightmare rounding off A2's next time I build I will only use A2's were needed and stick to proper bolts if appropriate.

Quote:

---

Im also curious about how the Z Axis is orientated too, when moving positively it travels upwards - the homing is set to minimum but when homing it searches upwards. Possibly this is because of the problems i am having with the Axis.

Thanks

---

It is usual to have the Z showing -ve going down so +ve and home would be at the top. The other two are personal choice.

Re the Z only moving in one direction check the (dir) on the driver and make sure it is changing sense ie 5v and 0v

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Desertboy

Nice one both you and Clive tested my spindle today with an ammeter and it's obviously pin 4 is not connected to anything ;)

Will do as Clive suggested, were the top bolts hard to undo? I tried and felt some resistance like I have some loctite to break didn't want to push it until I asked had a nightmare rounding off A2's next time I build I will only use A2's were needed and stick to proper bolts if appropriate.

---

I had to crack them, think there was some thread lock on the bottom of mine, i one exactly as Clive suggested. However still cant seem to get the spindle going - have not tried today however; might switch it back to manual configuration and run it directly from the VFD just to make sure that everything is wired correctly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clive S

It is usual to have the Z showing -ve going down so +ve and home would be at the top. The other two are personal choice.

Re the Z only moving in one direction check the (dir) on the driver and make sure it is changing sense ie 5v and 0v

---

Ok, well i guess it makes sense to change the X & Y to follow suit (Move Negative AWAY from the Home Position). At least then they are all the same and i can't confuse myself - which is very likely.

Roger Roger - Will check that thanks Clive.

Alex

The machine looks very good.
I am sure that with the help from all the expert guys here soon your cnc will run properly, carry on!

Quote:

---

Ok, well i guess it makes sense to change the X & Y to follow suit (Move Negative AWAY from the Home Position). At least then they are all the same and i can't confuse myself - which is very likely.

---

If it was me I would keep the x and y going +ve away from the home switch. but still have the Z going down -ve as it is easier to read the gcode

However, it is possible to have (0,0) in, say, the "bottom left" corner, which tends to be natural when you are standing in front of the machine, but have the home position in the top right corner and set the home position to the max value of travel. This gets the tool out of the way when you home. Or you can have each axis home at min or max. It's a question of choice. It's easy enough to configure Mach3 for each situation.

Thanks guys i will have a think about it.

Alex

Hi Everyone,

I'm glad someone is taking the time to elaborate on my design. ;)

Although not much use to you now, I've been meaning to make the CAD files available for others to use, perhaps I will get onto that this week.

I'm interested in seeing how your machine performs with 10 mm pitch screws. I used 1605 screws and have found them perfectly fine for my requirements. I've seen others online stating that 5 mm pitch screws are too slow and I fail to understood this statement. A machine this size which isn't used for production purposes I didn't see the need to maximise rapid speed. It's fast enough as it is! Perhaps a full size machine would require more speed, but then i'd probably move to rack and pinion anyway.

I too prefer "home" the machine to the back right hand corner, this means that the gantry is at the back and out of the way after initial startup, ready for me to load a sheet of material onto the bed. I have the axis set up as X from left to right (gantry) and Y (dual motor drive) front to back when standing in front of the machine. Therefore my homing position is X+,Y+,Z+.

I look forward to seeing some test cut footage on this machine!

Cheers
Jeremy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jerm

Hi Everyone,

I'm glad someone is taking the time to elaborate on my design. ;)

Although not much use to you now, I've been meaning to make the CAD files available for others to use, perhaps I will get onto that this week.

I'm interested in seeing how your machine performs with 10 mm pitch screws. I used 1605 screws and have found them perfectly fine for my requirements. I've seen others online stating that 5 mm pitch screws are too slow and I fail to understood this statement. A machine this size which isn't used for production purposes I didn't see the need to maximise rapid speed. It's fast enough as it is! Perhaps a full size machine would require more speed, but then i'd probably move to rack and pinion anyway.

I too prefer "home" the machine to the back right hand corner, this means that the gantry is at the back and out of the way after initial startup, ready for me to load a sheet of material onto the bed. I have the axis set up as X from left to right (gantry) and Y (dual motor drive) front to back when standing in front of the machine. Therefore my homing position is X+,Y+,Z+.

I look forward to seeing some test cut footage on this machine!

Cheers
Jeremy

---

Hi Jeremy! I hope you are well, i have been meaning to send you some updates on the build since we last spoke. Cad files would be great to a lot of people i think, a lot of people on the Facebook groups have asked - i just don't seem to have time to compile them neatly with a BOM right now.

I have made a lot of progress yesterday and today, i have finished wiring the machine now (almost, but i'm leaving Max Limit switches off for now, the loom is there if i want to use it in the future). I added a Ferrite ring to the Spindle Cable where it exits the VFD enclosure & also at the other end where it wires into the Marine Connector Socket, i hope this helps keep inference down - i have also grounded the CY cable correctly (i think., I also just need to add an E-Stop to the controller.

I got the Spindle working and also got it fully operational from the DDCSV1.1 controller. The Huanyang VFD is slightly strange, it requires you to daisy chain / common ground the DCM & ACM terminals (Analogue & Digital Control Signal Grounds), which does not make any sense to me. I'm not sure what the Chinese logic behind it is however it wasted an hour or two figuring it out but now works fine.

Also got the Coolant Drum (An old & cleaned out 20 Litre Lacquer Tin), setup with the pump in it - which all seems to be working nicely with no leaks. If the Drum is 20 Litres, would this be a sufficient volume to passively cool itself? Should any type of Antifreeze / Coolant be added or replace the water to improve performance, help cooling, prevent corrosion in the Spindle Water Jacket?

Next on the list is to try and wrap my head around SolidCAM, creating a Post Processor for it & getting some test programs run. Also at the point now where i need to look at getting the aluminium plates sorted.

Alex

The reason for separate digital and analogue grounds is that sometimes, for example, the BOB or motion controller will have separate power supplies for digital and analogue outputs and this allows you to keep them isolated. Not always needed but essential in some situations. Not as silly as it might look at first sight, but frustrating when the Chinglish manual doesn't really help!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neale

The reason for separate digital and analogue grounds is that sometimes, for example, the BOB or motion controller will have separate power supplies for digital and analogue outputs and this allows you to keep them isolated. Not always needed but essential in some situations. Not as silly as it might look at first sight, but frustrating when the Chinglish manual doesn't really help!

---

Ah that makes sense, another thing i found strange was i could not see anywhere in the Huanyang manual that stated what kind of signal the FOR input was expecting, so i also wasted another hour or so on that whilst trying to figure out the ACM / DCM grounding.

Alex

Wait a minute here... You got manuals for your stuff??? :D

Skickat från min SM-N910C via Tapatalk