bloody hell Jazz has been working hard
that look's amazing
nice work lads and just think you can make money of that just from the CNC machine plans alone
I saw some one selling plans for £120.00 on ebay last week
James
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bloody hell Jazz has been working hard
that look's amazing
nice work lads and just think you can make money of that just from the CNC machine plans alone
I saw some one selling plans for £120.00 on ebay last week
James
That's perfect! thank you very much :tup:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
Folks,
Great news Ball screws are here and will be shipped to Jazz tomorrow. Also, with the aid of my wife we swapped the ball screws nuts without loosing a single ball bearing from either of them. I will admit that we set up and had a plan and soft cloth under the ball screws as we transferring them.
Right now trying to figure out how to use IGUS chain (or something like it) in the space I have to use for protection of the power/control cables to the motors and the spindle. I can fit it no problem. Problem is figuring out how to mount it. My error, though not a large one and from what I am seeing correctable.
Michael
Well here is some very good progress photo's and things are moving forward. Jazz, you're doing a great job and thanks.Attachment 5173Attachment 5174
Will get more up as able.
Michael
Nice!!
Well done Jazz!
Well folks we are on the home stretch and Jazz is doing great. The design has gone through some minor changes, but is pretty much on track for what was designed. Now the important part the pictures. Side note there are only 2 plates left to cut and 2 extensions to cut for the NEMA 23 shafts for the pulleys.
Attachment 5184Attachment 5185Attachment 5186Attachment 5187Attachment 5188
The HDPE you see the Z axis resting on is 15 mm thick and will be about what I am using for bed material. Right now discussing whether to mill in slots or just drill and tap it. The bed will be either HDPE around 200-250 grade or UHMWPE and looking at a couple of options on how to set that up. Need to get one more piece of energy chain for the x axis. I on the other hand am testing the BOB that I have done the work on to make the A axis work with the X and going to make sure that is all good and need to get the shielded wiring for the switches and most likely will need some more shielded 4 core for the motors as will need longer leads.
Also getting g-code ready for a couple of jigs and such as will be busy right from the get go once it is up here and bedded in. Again a very big thanks to Jazz for all his work:toot:, to James and Luke for the X axis supported round rails:tup: and for all the other folks that directly or indirectly aided in this project.:toot:
Michael
Looks really good Michael
what spindle are you planning to use ??
James
I've got plenty of 4-core CY shielded if you need to buy some. Let me know how much you need - will be cheaper than elsewhere as I'm not trying to make money out of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by m.marino
I will vouch for that, it's a good price from Jonathan:tup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
Currently using a Kress 1050 FME and will most likely keep using that until I can afford to buy/build a water-cooled spindle with VFD. Once I can afford it the next upgrade is a SuperPID for the Kress which has really good reviews for performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke11cnc
If you will ultimately buy the water cooled spindle then why bother with the SuperPID... surely use that money to get the water cooled spindle sooner?Quote:
Originally Posted by m.marino
I started off with a £6 router from the car boot sale. Didn't last long ... then I was persuaded to get the water cooled spindle. Couldn't really afford it at the time (Mum and Dad took quite a bit of persuading!) but I'm glad I didn't get the Kress as after having read more about both of them the water cooled spindle is clearly worth the extra.
Okay good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
Super will cost me $181.00 (£118 as of this posting)plus incoming VAT (I get that back as a business) plus the processing fee of max £10 by the courier. Which as I said in the post you quote has very good performance record in not only speed control but in maintaining torque via maintaining rpm. Then setting it up with the System 4 break out board and Mach3 (about two days worth of work including testing)
1.5KW water cooled spindle ~£140 delivered +/- £15. Then a quality VFD 1.5KW VFD that I can get serviced?warranty in the UK will cost between £120 and £180 depending on type and a few other options. Add on to that a coolant pump and Radiator with fans and thermometer for fan control (£150 max). Plus the aluminium for the mounting brackets to be cut as well.
That is why the wait and going with the SuperPID and double brackets on the Kress until I build up enough cash reserves from product sales to buy the materials to go the liquid cooled route.
It is a matter of economics and what I can do at this time to improve control and repeatability of the work I am doing. The SuperPID will be a massive step up in control and safety.
I am looking at the 1.5Kw as that is 2HP and more then enough power for the cutting that I will be doing for a good while. I might at the time of buying the water cooled decide to upgrade to a 2.2KW unit, but will have to see at that point.
I hope that explains my reasoning and in a clear fashion. My only request is that this is taken as ONLY simple explanation and nothing more.
On the machine build side of things the testing of the break out board went well after setting up Mach and doing a few other items. Also found a Parallel port card that has two ports on one card and need to find out if that would cause a problem with information out bound or not. As it looks like a rather nice option for my PCI slot challenged mother board (when I start pulling the rest together for the fourth axis).
Hope every one is doing well and having fun making chips.
Michael
NO contest IMO the W/C spindle wins hands down Micheal.!! . . . Unfortunatly it's one of them untill you've used one you'll never now how good they are things.!
Don't need Rads fans etc a simple submersible pump (£15 Ebay 24V 7mtr head height) into a sealed container of decent qty 20-25lt is all thats needed.
Some one asked me a while ago how long the spindle would run without coolant and because it's not something I've done purposely for more than a few minutes couldn't truely give a definative answer other than 5 minutes or so!!. . . .Well as of a week or so ago this changed.?
Now this is the part where I fezz up to doing an embarrissing numpty trick. . . . . . I forgot to tighten the pipe clip on the pump after fitting a new pump resulting in it falling off in the tank.:redface: . . . The machine had been cutting Aluminum for nearly 2hours without coolant.:surprised:
The only reason I spotted the problem was because when the job stopped I didn't hear the water back drain into the tank like normal pricking my attention.! . . Now you can imagine my shock horror when I opened the top and realised it had just been cutting 2 hours without water.!
My first instinct was to clasp the spindle expecting it to be red hot and it wasn't.!!. . Yes It was lot warmer than normal but no way would I discribe it as any where near hot and absolutly in no way did it affect cutting or show in loss of power or even change sound.
(This said the temp in the shop was bloody freezing so this would help very very very very slightly.!)
So my point confessing this embarrising cock up is to point out these spindles are very robust regards cooling and even when run without coolant for prelonged periods they won't kill them selfs. So thermostats etc are not really needed or would have even helped in a situation like this unless monitered by software to shut down if the flow stops. . . . . Really a flow meter connected to an estop would be far more usefull. Obviously I'm not recommending or saying it's ok to run these spindles dry in anyway but they won't die in minutes thats for sure.
So now my Answer to the quastion has changed from 2 minutes to 2 hours.!!. . . . . But I don't plan on testing this any further.:lol:
Save the S-Pid money and go straight to WC using the simple cheap approach is my vote.!
I think the water cooled router are much much quieter than the high speed kress any way and much much better on the ears
James
Agree entirely with everything Jazz just said - was just typing similar post but got distracted. My pump, like the ones on eBay was <£5 and no radiator / fancy coolant. You'd have to try hard to spend more than £25 on the cooling system I reckon. Aluminium for the mount brackets <£10.
I have also inadvertently left my pump off, and yes it warms up a bit but it seems no harm done.
If you want to invest money on a better controller use the money from the S-pid to get the better VFD. Even so, there are many many people who have used the china VFDs with no problems (myself included, got two now) and they've recently changed the design so presumably it's better. Obviously people only post on forums about the VFD if they have problems with it. Jazz has had bad luck with them though I believe...
Yes I did have problems with mine and it wasn't just the huanyang VFD's I also had another chinese brand which I can't remember name of now. Both where very poor quality but the huanyang was best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
When I first bought mine they weren't has cheap as they are know so the differential was worth buying local and not taking the risk.
Now thou it's changed and I'd be inclined to take the risk for the little difference between just buying the spindle on it's own and VFD/spindle combo.
The only exception to this would be if your business relied upon it, which in this case then I'd definatly 100% buy local. . . . Not just because the vfd's are better quality, (Remember they are all pritty much built or originate in China anyway so it could be a close call with lesser known brands.!!) but it's the warranty that you really need or want.
Micheal knows this already but for the bennifit of others with business's or folks where's it's critical to keep down time to a minimum. It was Only a few weeks ago this showed how important.!
My top brand high quality ABB vector drive went faulty, it's not very old so still under warrenty and I was back up and running within days, which could have been down to hours if I was prepared to go collect. This for a business is worth the extra investment.
Keep a spare then? Unless the proper ones are less than twice as much as the cheap ones and don't charge for repair you're still winning. I bought my second one and it arrived in about 4 days, not bad I thought.
If you really need lots of torque at low rpm then having the vector drive helps, so that's one reason to get one. Still if you want to do that get the 2.kW spindle so you've got more power at low rpm to start with (and the bigger collet of course). They come up cheap on eBay occasionally.
Michael. I have just got one of the bay for 238 inc postage for 2.2kw +controller. If you want to check it out I will gladly drop it round for you to see when it arrives.
Your machine is looking awesome btw.
Bruce
Yes keeping a spare does make sense but it does workout more expensive. A quick look and I can get a 2.2kw torque vector drive for £137 and probably cheaper for flux drive(Non vector) if I shopped about. I've seen them as low as £99 +vat obviously the VAT don't matter if your business thats vat registered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
Just looking on ebay the Huanyang vfd would be approx £85 x 2= £170 plus VAT and import duty if your unlucky plus the usual £10 for the robbing shipping companys charge.
Yes it would probably be slightly cheaper because you'll get the first about £60-70 if bought with spindle. Yes you will have 2 drives but both will be Non vector drives even then thou it's still a close call if you buy like for like non vector drives that you could get 2 for only slightly more in UK. In this case then for the little extra it would still make more sense to buy local for warranty advantage.
If a business it's something that needs carefull attention and although 4 days hisn't long it's still 3 more than couriering from most places in UK, which could be as low as hours depending where purchased from. To a business even 1 day of down time could make the difference between making money and blowing money or going POP.!!
Personally If it was my main living I'd have a spare all the time and both would be vector drives bought in UK. . . . I'd also have a spare spindle.!
Same, although if vector drives (and the corresponding advantages) didn't exist it would be less clear cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
I didn't get charged by customs on the VFD, they said it was shipped from the UK and I can't remember if that was actually true. Probably not, and I also hate the £10! But try ignoring it and you get lots of letters (it was worth a shot).
Bruce,
Yes if you would please. Though I will be honest I will still go with a local VFD which for me saves the cost of keeping the back up in house currently.
Saving up for that is okay. Thanks for mentioning Collet size Jonathan as that is probably the best reason to move up from the 1.5Kw unit even though I really don't need that much more power. Seven millimeters is just not big enough by one millimeter to do the range of tools that I have reason to use.
Today more set up an prep work in shop and business work. Long day today.
Michael
Not that I want to change your decision, but the collets on the 1.5kW are ER16 which goes up to 10mm:Quote:
Originally Posted by m.marino
http://www.rego-fix.ch/eng/katalog/ti/ti_fs.htm
(I think you were looking at ER11 which is up to 7mm)
For most people over 10mm is critical as it means you can use 1/2" router cutters.
Remember that the available power output from the spindle is roughly proportional to the spindle speed, so if you're starting with 2.2kW instead of 1.5kW you have more power at lower speeds. So saying 1.5kW is more than you'll ever need I think is not quite true as it doesn't take into account this power reduction.
Jonathan,
ALL the 1.5kW water cooled spindles I have looked at are ER11, now if you know of one that is ER16 great please post the link for it.
Fair enough the only ER16 1.5kW are air cooled and you don't want that. To be honest I'd never bothered looking before as I didn't consider it.Quote:
Originally Posted by m.marino
Well the wiring that I ordered is here (limit switches and lighter then what you have Jonathan as don't need that heavy for the limit/Home switches). Jazz showed me a few web sites that have some really nice stuff that will really help with product once I can afford them. Most likely going to put a smoothstepper in front of getting the water cooled spindle as that just means keeping an eye on the brushes of the Kress and using the Ear plugs I use already for a bit longer.
Right now it is getting down to the end bits and bobs that are needed to get things finished. Hope everyone is doing well.
Michael
edited to correct spelling
I think you should definitely prioritise the spindle over the smooth-stepper. Since it's only quite a small machine you'll be able to run it perfectly well from the parallel port, so I doubt the smooth stepper will make much difference. Compare that to the spindle which directly affects the machine's ability to cut accurately and efficiently.
I'd like a smooth stepper too (as mine is bigger), but I'm not bothered when really as the machine runs perfectly well. It should just be a little more stable with one. Just going to wait for one to come up cheap...or make my own version. Whichever comes first.
Jonathan, do you even know what Michael makes with his machine?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't need 2.2kw to machine what he does, and I'd even say the kress has far more power than what's needed. I'll agree a water cooled spindle will be better for noise reduction, but I wouldn't say it's a priority.
As for the smoothstepper, if you do get one, the ethernet SS is very near production, and is reported to be far more stable than the USB version.
Yes I do know - spent some time discussing quite a lot about this and the machine over Skype, but not going to say here as that's up to Michael. I gather what he is making requires high accuracy. It's also generally small tools, so I guess the cutting noise wont be much which makes getting a quieter spindle sensible.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
Yes if you actually got 2.2kW from the spindle - see what I put in post #102. Similarly if the Kress had far more power than needed Michael wouldn't have considered getting a Super-PID.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
More importantly he needs the bigger collets that the 2.2kW spindle offers, so the only spindle to get is the 2.2kW water cooled (as air is too noisy and bad at low speed).
Jonathan,
I would prefer to have the 8 mm that a ER16 allows an ER20 is overkill for me. While I will be working with some metals in the future that is a bit down the road and I primarily work with plastics that need a high finish. With the machine as it is I will easily be able to do that with out a big problem with the Kress as the position I was in with the old machine was the machines in ability to be any where as near as accurate as I needed.
m_c,
thanks for the heads up on the smoothstepper and I will be waiting whether I wanted to or not as have too much to get done that requires funds going other places. The good news is that will be generating income and with the new machine should have a very nice return. Which will go part in the bills to live, part into paying more materials to meet orders and parts to be saved up for upgrades as possible.
Hope every one is doing well and m_c; once I have it up here from Jazz, drop me a message and we can see about that project you need cut.
Michael
Thou M/C don't hold your breath because the B'#*?ard is fighting back and has started taking root . . :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by m.marino
Just aswell I'm in no rush :lol:
On a serious note, that project is currently lingering at the bottom of a very long list, with no planned need until May, but that could change anytime!
I've spent the past couple of weeks buried in embedded code stuff, learning such things as what happens to Atmega chips when you run out of RAM, with next weeks delights looking to include LiPo batteries and charging, topped of with some thru-beam testing, and if I get time, some .net programming. I'm hoping to get back to some CNC action before the end of the month :-/
I've made a couple of LiPo chargers, and used/tested/made batteries from those cells a lot ... if you don't care about the efficiency of the charger then it's very easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
I'm taking the easy option and using the sparkfun charger/booster module. Need to figure out how long the battery will last under various scenarios, which is what will take the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan
After weather and and tool breakage/out of stock and sundry other problems conspiring against us, back on track and things looking good. I will NOT predict a finish date at the moment as every time we have set a done by date something has gotten in the way of it. But things are looking good and the pulleys are on and things are moving forward. My health is not the greatest with a cough deciding that it wants to inhibit me being able to get tuning done but hey, looks like I might have other work that has been in the wings that can be done instead in the near future.
Attachment 5311
Michael
Well,
It is done to the point that it is now coming up here and the wiring, bedding in, last section of energy chain install, and tuning will be getting done.:toot:
Baring something going wrong (touch wood/iron) that will be this coming wednesday, after which all the above will be being done and then a whole bunch of chips are going to be getting made. Big Big thanks to JazzCNC:toot::toot: and also to James and Luke for the rails:toot: and all other folks who have helped and/or encouraged along the way:toot:.
It is sort of funny as I am smiling like crazy as I am sick as a dog with an upper respiratory infection (on antibiotics and hopefully will be better by the time the machine gets here). Now just last bit of cleaning up (funny how work surfaces attract clutter:joker:). Now it is just doing the little stuff and waiting for it to get here.:naughty::dance:
Oh here is some pictures and yes the X axis is not attached as that is going to be unbolted from the carriages for transport up here. Now to be a patient lad :whistling::joker:
for the few days left to go.
Attachment 5337Attachment 5338Attachment 5339
That look's amazing Mick
well done lads Jazz is a really talented man and done you proud I hope you make lots and lots of cash now
I will accept one of those bottle of whisky going for £44,000.00 (their is 10 left):whistling::joker:
I'm really pleased for you
James and Luke
Michael that is looking beautiful. Well done to you and jazz. Now where is that list of parts i need making?:whistling:
Bruce
Thanks Jazz and all the folks who helped with this build. It arrived today and I got to meet Jazz in person finally. Great guy, kids loved him. Now I am wiring up the mill and going to be setting up the limit switches and such as well as setting up the electronics. I will get pictures of it in the shop up later tonight (getting the on machine wiring boxes cut and able to be placed.
Michael
Whose a happy boy then?:tup:
bruce
I am coughing hacks included. Went out with Mario (My oldest son, for folks who don't know him) and got the some of the parts I need and hair cuts as we both needed them. Got back home and started working on things and then the hacking got worse from doing to much today so up in the office doing other things I can do. And here is the pictures I promised earlier:Attachment 5359Attachment 5360Quote:
Originally Posted by motoxy
A good sized machine that fits as snug as we designed it to and i will be bolting it to the table as that gantry has a good bit of mass and it is going to want to move when i get her up to full cutting speed. Well folks going to rest as this hack is not nice. I will try to get a few better done photo's in the future but the machine takes up a good part of the back wall as both Jazz and Bruce can give witness to.
Michael