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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CharlesJenkinson
Apart from looking nice, I'm not convinced these types of bed frames, with massive members, need to be fully welded at the joints, from a stress point of view anyway - stitch welding would be perfectly adequate - having said that, the effect of inducing bending due to weld shrinkage is possibly only noticeable on smaller dimension square hollow section, less than 70mm say.
Charles Very true regards Stitch welding being plenty strong enough if done correctly but even larger dimension SHS will distort if the heat put into it is too great. Spreading the welds around and keeping the bead length down to a minimum is very much needed with any size material if distortion is to be kept to minimum.
I've just got my self a New 250A AC/DC Tig welder with pulse and I love it for just this reason as the heat is kept very isolated to small area. Fact I can weld thick Aluminium plate as well as thin Aliminium plate is lovely as well.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Any chance of some advice on best welding strategy for welding novices like me? Starting with the assumption that we are welding box section (I'm probably talking 50x50x3 in my case), what's the best way to get an accurate frame that's not going to distort as you add bits on? I'm starting to hear things like tack welds to hold it all together, then add more tacks/spots for strength, but continuous welds at the joints are not needed.
Specific example - you are welding two pieces of box section that meet as a Tee. Couple of spots on the "internal" corners so that you don't pull the pieces out of plane, then tack the sides, then add a few more spots for strength?
I'm guessing that all this is blindingly obvious to an experienced welder but I get the feeling that a lot of people cut their welding teeth for the first time building a router!
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Erm, I don't have vast practical welding experience, but I'd say two decent 30mm long 3 or 4 mm leg fillet, i.e. one in the middle of each of the 2 flush butting sides of that joint should hold it good, for strength - just weld through (over the top of) any tack you've put down. I don't see any point welding round the corners or trying to fill the whole void in where the square cut end doesn't meet the radius edges of the mating member - doing this is just adding loads of extra heat and metal that isn't doing anything. The important point about tacking together is to set and maintain the WHOLE assembly geometry before laying heavier deposits down, so if you have any gussets orbraces supporting the ends of your T assembly, IMO they should be tacked in after the T is tacked together but before putting the structural welds down.
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7 Attachment(s)
Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
I'm no expert (I seem to weld every 4 years or so) but what I did was cut the pieces to length, dry assemble the uprights and the main frame outer pieces then put either one tack or a couple of tacks on each piece.
Attachment 11529
Then I got a square and spirit level and made sure all was as good as I could get. I then tacked in the bed braces..
Attachment 11530
I then checked all was square again before starting to add the angle braces...
Attachment 11531
I then checked that the uprights were still square and all was good and then started welding the uprights. Now here I confess I didn't do it in small short runs spread out round the frame like I probably should have. I just did it in one or two runs per weld (50mm long welds as using 50x50x4 box)
Attachment 11532
I then checked to see if all was still square (otherwise the angle grinder would have to come out!) and then proceeded to weld up the rest of the welds. I didn't do it in any particular order (it was pretty random) and then after finishing the frame (but without the X axis rails welded on) I checked all the frame was still level and the uprights were still 90° to the bed.
Attachment 11533
I then offered one X axis rail up, clamped it with F clamps roughly level and then referencing off the frame rails and tacked it as parallel (using a digital bevel box) as I could. I then put lots of tacks on it, checking in between that it hadn't moved, and then once cool I welded over the tacks in one go.
Attachment 11534
I then did the same for the second rail checking for parallellness (is that a word?) in both directions with the first rail as a reference but also checking the second rail against the frame to make sure it wasn't out. I then did the same weld procedure for the second rail and it turned out pretty square and parallel....probably more from good luck than skill!
Attachment 11535
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
All pretty obvious, then - the kind of "obvious" you only see when someone's pointed it out!
Thanks for the idiots' guide (and I'm the welding idiot, just to make it clear!).
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neale
All pretty obvious, then - the kind of "obvious" you only see when someone's pointed it out!
Thanks for the idiots' guide (and I'm the welding idiot, just to make it clear!).
I knew what you meant......I also class myself in the category of welding idiots. I just put it together and once I was happy it was square I wacked the welds on regardless of putting too much heat (see told you I was a welding idiot!!) in to the frame. I seem to have got away with it.....so far!!
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
To be honest it's not rocket science but the Welder your using does make a difference to some degree.
Arc or MMA welders put a lot more heat into the steel than Mig or Tig so it's a good idea when using Stick to keep runs shorter and spread them around but keep balanced. By balanced I mean if you weld Left side of material for 1 " then weld right side 1" at same time before moving to another spot.
For general steel work then Mig is best has it's relatively quick and easy to learn but it's not has cheap has stick to buy equipment.
Tig is best for controlled heat but it's slow and more specialised and expensive so I wouldn't use it for steel frame work. (unless using MMA option)
Just for building a one off frame and keeping costs down then MMA(Stick) is best has it's cheap to get setup and not too difficult to learn.
Just remember bird shit can be scrubbed away so tis is true with welding and grinder is your best friend. . Lol
Welding and Epoxy leveling make steel frames very easy and cheap to achieve.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAZZCNC
Welding and Epoxy leveling make steel frames very easy and cheap to achieve.
That's what I'm hoping!
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9 Attachment(s)
Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Hi there,
I would like to point again that the further i go building the machine, the more discover how important and later time saving was to weld the whole machine with under 1mm, even possibly under 0.5mm precision.
I would like also to remind you that i welded the machine fully, but it took like more than a half of day, due to waiting things to cool and the having in my left hand the IR remote thermometer, controlling that the overall temperature of the frame and gantry stays under 60C. So any change of dimensiones was successfully avoided.
So if you don't have thermometer at hand, just wait untill cool to the touch. And no more than 2 inch at once, always mirroring.
Here is some more progress in details.
The Hiwin are wide 20mm, i made the epoxy 40mm wide, hence-10mm each side. Thats should be the proper way. The meniscus took like 3mm at least.
So how i dealt with the meniscus? I decided i would not waste time on it, so i glued sand paper to a stick and started sanding it off. Not completely. I decided i will mount the rails and then continuing with epoxy leveling the gantry rails and side supports.
In other words dealing completely with the meniscus is a waste of time. The process took me 20 minutes, the epoxy sanded like a snow flakes. 20 min more for the end of the epoxy, where the end of the rails would be. here i checked with straight edge and scraped a bit the last cm.
It is a very good idea to stuck a tape over the middle of the epoxy, where the rails would be, as not to scratch it!
Attachment 11542
Well, it seems it worked as supposed. The epoxy i mean
Attachment 11543
Buying the precise 1m straight edge and precise square was a very good idea. In a matter of minutes i placed and aligned the rails. I would say that its crucial .
Both cost around 100 euro and a week research , see here: http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/tool-t...-straight.html
Attachment 11544
Once in place and squared i rechecked them using a long steel ruler made from 2 rules and magnets, which i fitted inbetween and checked at both ends. Tight fit as expected. I supported it with alu beam so it would not bend/ like in the picture, while i was making the shot/
Attachment 11547
Attachment 11548
Just a side note here. Forum is ok, but read the frigging manuals. Hiwin rails have direction, also the carriages/ its not seen on the pic, but the letters should be at the side where the arrow points to/ . have that in mind, is buried somewhere in the long manual.
Attachment 11545
I was tired and working after work. But i wanted and started to feel a kind of satisfaction not being in a hurry and doing things right. So instead of drilling through the clamped hiwin rails, i used a hole transfer tool lightly using the hammer. And a torch, to see better.
Attachment 11546
And as i started to feel that satisfaction, i decided to continue accordingly the process, drilling first 3mm holes, using the very handy tool to keep them vertical.
The torch helped again to see things , illuminating the epoxy from below.
Attachment 11549
Some holes and here is what happened. I had to go for a new drill, as it seems if the drill is not perfect, it adds heat and the epoxy lifts around the hole. Not a big deal, will scrape it with a small straight edge. The epoxy scrapes nicely, as i said-like snow flakes
Attachment 11550
Now i am waiting for a new brand M5 tap and the bolts for the Hiwin to arrive. I wouldn't risque with the cheap tap i have. I bought them from internet as it seems that screws are quite expensive locally.
Thats all for now.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Coming on nicely nicely now, looking very good, but I wouldn't expect any thing else having read your build log and your obvious attention to every detail. Great stuff. G.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Obviously section 1.10 of the Hiwin manual is the 'correct' method but if you don't have the gear . . .
To mount rails similar to yours, I first clamped a straight edge along the top with the edge parallel to the beam and for the Hiwin rail to be in the centre.
Then I clamped the Hiwin rail to the beam making sure it was tight up against the straight edge. The holes in the rail are about 5.5mm diameter so I used a 5.5mm drill in every mounting hole to make a dimple in the epoxy similar to using a centre punch. This allowed my 4.2mm tapping drill to go right through the epoxy and beam, all central to the Hiwin mounting holes. The other rail was mounted in a similar way but using a DTI gauge to keep them parallel.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
Now something very important. I will not move the frame at all. After a week has passed will solder the gantry and sides. Then will turn upside down the gantry and lay the upper side on the level surface of the epoxy. Then will pour epoxy on the gantry side plates that step on the Hiwin bearing blocks, connecting them together. Also pour epoxy on the lower side of the gantry beam. When dry, will turn the nagtry to normal position , rest the leveled side plates / epoxy on epoxy/ and pour the final epoxy at the top side of the gantry beam.
So with these steps i will achieve all hiwin rails lay on epoxy surfaces that are paralel to each other. The only thing left will be to ensure squareness of Z. I hope to achieve a quite precise machine.
Hi Silyavski,
Guess you have been pulled away onto other things for a while, but I really hope you will be coming back to continue with this great build thread. . . . .
I am particularly interested in whether your intended technique worked in getting the gantry rails parallel?
Cheers, Andy
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10 Attachment(s)
Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AndyGuid
Hi Silyavski,
Guess you have been pulled away onto other things for a while, but I really hope you will be coming back to continue with this great build thread. . . . .
I am particularly interested in whether your intended technique worked in getting the gantry rails parallel?
Cheers, Andy
Hi,
yes its been a while. I am not the fastest builder around it seems :redface:.
Basically what happened is that apart from other jobs and orders on my small machine, i had to change house , and it was 3 weeks madness. Now i am happyly suited in a new house with a proper garage/workshop/ so from 2 weeks i am continuing the build.
Here is what happened in short / only problems :chuncky:/:
1. Mistake one
I bumped the frame a couple of times when i was trying to reach the washing machine. So it moved a bit. As i wanted perfection in leveling...Only if i had hot glued the legs to the floor :anonymous:, this mistake will be not repeated again. So here is the solution. Again pouring epoxy, this time on my soldering jig. Waiting , fixing, pouring again, turning around, pouring. It took some time. A week.
Attachment 12395 Attachment 12396 Attachment 12394
2. Next mistakes
Then when the epoxy on all necessary surfaces on the gantry was dry enough, i decided to open the holes necessary for the bolts to hold the gantry to the bearing blocks.
WOW, another mistake. The epoxy chipped and the drill bit unglued the first of 4 epoxy plate from the gantry. Now i was worried. So i marked it and cut the corners as seen in the photo. I marked all others with numbers and crossed lines and using Dremel filed the corners. And...everything unglued. The good thing was that all was marked so i knew which is which and where it has been exactly. So i finished them, cleaned everything and using instant glue and pressure/clamps fit then where they have been.
Perfect fit, the glue squeezed equally , checked with the straight edge, well it was perfect. Hell, i was worried, and the epoxy was starting to finish :greedy_dollars:
Attachment 12397 Attachment 12398
3. Painting problems
I actually bought a car paint. But as it was quite expensive i decided to base coat with anti-oxide yellow paint meant to be painted directly over the metal.
I found the following things:
-successfully painting small things doesn't mean you can paint a big thing well at home :toot:
-having pro HVLP gun doesn't help if your compressor is small and you want to paint big things. Not enough air.
-having smaller airbrush type gun doesn't help either
-not having dry filtering, i mean real dry filter on the air line , means bad things happen...
-painting yellow is a mean thing, really mean. 3 liters of paint. Well i sued a roller at the end, as otherwise i had to paint it a whole week.
in short-painting is not my strength :-)
Attachment 12399 Attachment 12400
4. Bolting the gantry to the frame and aligning the gantry rails.
Needless to say - a lot of problems.
a/ First to say i have dry bolted the gantry before painting all. It was ok. So what was my surprise when everything was painted, the machine fixed on the welding jigs for comfort and the gantry will not fit. So i called a friend that helped me and 3 times i had to lift the gantry and lower it, mean while widening the holes. The reason. This is crazy- the machine is outside, the sun heats the frame and it widens. cause i made the machine in the winter...
So basically now i cover all the time it so it could not heat . My garage is small i mean to work inside.
So at the end i squared perfectly the gantry and bolted it
b/ Now next unsuspected problem. How do i fit the rails on the gantry to be perfectly square with the long rails on the frame? I knew i could do it somehow but in reality it was a big challenge.
I know how to do it if say i make 10 same machines, a fixture and no problem. But how to do it on the cheap. Cause this machine really ate a lot of money spend on little things.
After a lot of thought i fixed the straight edge perpendicular to the base rails and decided to start with the upper rail first.
Once the upper rail was square, there came the problem with the lower rail. A friend of mine says we have all necessary stuff always at hand. So i was in no rush, thought it a whole weekend and just have done it.
Another difficulty was that i do all alone at home with no help, so first i more or less squared it using clamps and then drilled and tapped 2 holes only. Then aligned and bolted until happy. Then drilled the rest of the holes directly on place and bolted. Photos speak better than words how all of this was done.
Of course i managed to chip the paint here and there so it seems when everything is working i have to retouch it at the end. No big deal.
2 equal pieces of aluminum square bar were used to fix more or less the correct distance to the upper rail.
Attachment 12401
Both were precisely squared to the straight edge which was squared to the base rails. 2 pieces of rail were used to support them, a kind of parallels . Not seen on the pictures at the end only one was used at both sides so to make sure the fit is perfect and is really squared.
Attachment 12402
Holes were marked, 6mm drill used to clean the epoxy so it will not unglue or raise during drilling the beam, then 4.2mm drill to make the holes and then tapped. With the help of the nice little block i have.
Attachment 12403
On all drilling and tapping the gantry was clamped so it will not move around. here is the fixture which helped me align the lower gantry rail. Dont laugh at my square, had to clamp a rule to make it longer. I said we have all we need at home, just some imagination is needed.
Used thickness gauge though to align it perfectly /yes i love that word/.
Note should be taken here that when i bolted the 2 plates from the Z i pushed them from behind till they touched the screws, so i know they are alligned to the bearing blockes, as the holes are laser cut. I mean because of this i am sure that their edges are parallel with the corresponding rails. Later i will have some additional opportunity to align them on one plane/the z face plate/ as i can move one of them a bit back.
5. The result till now
I am very late with this machine. Good that my friend still suffers me :-)
Thats all for now, problems or no i am quite happy with the result. I can not say what the precision till now is, though i can say imprecision is not obvious or visible in any way. means i use precision squares and they fit well everywhere where measured. No obvious gaps or workarounds. Lets say that for sure i am still under 0.1 mm accumulated squareness. Though it took a lot of time to achieve this.
What do you think? I hope it clears some problems one could encounter on a DIY build.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
After your problems it's looking nice, I like the colour.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
What did you use to build the dams to hold the epoxy? I can't quite make out the detail in the photos.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EddyCurrent
After your problems it's looking nice, I like the colour.
+1 :thumsup:
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Syliavski nice work. Congladulations!!!!
How thick steel plate did you finally use and what is the weight of the gantry ( so far without Z axis)?
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
It's looking great and STURDY!
many thanks for the update Silyavski.
Your build has given me plenty of food for thought!!!
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EddyCurrent
After your problems it's looking nice, I like the colour.
Thanks! I like to discuss here in detail the so called "problems" , not cause they are real problems, especially for a metalworker with the proper tools, machine and workshop.
I would rather say difficulties for the DIYer on the cheap where solutions have to be with what you have at hand and at the same time aiming precision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neale
What did you use to build the dams to hold the epoxy? I can't quite make out the detail in the photos.
Some post back you can see it on the photos. Alu angle profile, 10x10x1mm x 1m, very cheap. Instant glued to the frame and then hot glued from outside.
Its seems the epoxy is ok, as far as common sense is used, the profile is clean and 10mm margin is left from the bearing rail, as it/the epoxy/ tends to rise 5mm from the contact point with the margin, whatever the material.
PS:
-When lifting the angles or whatever you use to form the dams , it is wiser to clamp here and there the epoxy and always take care not to lift it ,break it or chip it.
-when drilling for the rails which for example are screwed with M5 screw, first mark the holes, drill with 6mm drill then center 4.2mm drill, drill and the tap M5. So the epoxy around the holes will not bother you, lift or chip, or heat and lift.
-with time , especially temperature changes can make the epoxy very easy to unglue. Clamping it is necessary in this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lee Roberts
+1 :thumsup:
Thanks! Great forum :-) and a lot of help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ba99297
Syliavski nice work. Conglatulations!!!!
How thick steel plate did you finally use and what is the weight of the gantry ( so far without Z axis)?
10mm steel plates, laser cut. Laser cutting the holes saves a lot of fiddling but care should be taken cause some long and thin section parts are not perfectly straight on their surface plain, so should be checked against straight edge where necessary and plastic mallet used to straighten them.
Now looking back at the drawings, instead of 0.5mm and 1mm bigger than the respective M screw size, i would advise at least 2mm bigger diameter. The paint eats it, the straightness eats it, adjustment eats it, so i constantly had to mount, check, unmount and open more the holes. Say if you have M6 screw, the hole from the beginning should have been 8mm diameter
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
Thanks! Great forum :-) and a lot of help.
Hi,
Your welcome Silyavski, from your build log came great discussion and realisation for others.
So, thank YOU for sharing your adventures and returning help to others, the results are a great forum and community.
In unity everyone can be successful, this is my original goal.
.Me
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Hi,
Thanks for shearing your design and experiences is looking really good so far. I am planning to build a similar cnc router with a working area of 1100mm by 600mm and 250 on the Z. I still have to figure out how to solve the z axes as the longest bit that I need to use is 250mm by 22mm dia and has to be able to travel on top of the 250mm material block.
I have noticed earlier that you had some issues with temperature changes which has me a bit worried as I need to build the machine at normal temperature but it will have to work at -5 degrees Celsius. Common sense tells me that since it will be in there all the time everything will shrink at the same time so hopefully I should not have problems.
Could you please tell me how much this project cost you so far everything included.
Thanks again for shearing.
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HipoPapi
Hi,
Thanks for shearing your design and experiences is looking really good so far. I am planning to build a similar cnc router with a working area of 1100mm by 600mm and 250 on the Z. I still have to figure out how to solve the z axes as the longest bit that I need to use is 250mm by 22mm dia and has to be able to travel on top of the 250mm material block.
I have noticed earlier that you had some issues with temperature changes which has me a bit worried as I need to build the machine at normal temperature but it will have to work at -5 degrees Celsius. Common sense tells me that since it will be in there all the time everything will shrink at the same time so hopefully I should not have problems.
Could you please tell me how much this project cost you so far everything included.
Thanks again for shearing.
Sorry have been busy. I have all mounted and finishing electronics and cables.
-So it seems there will be no problem following the design and making 250-300mm Z. Most wisely it seems is to make the sides of the construction deeper, by making the stairs like profiles a bit longer and the Z, keeping everything else same.
-2700-3200eur in materials, depends on how you deal with customs. using quality cables and so.
Now i before i update with pictures and details i have a question. Please sb. help cause my ignorance here is astonishing! I thought all was simple and obvious, but...
I have a toroidal transformer 2x50VAC and Power Regulator Board PSU. So one side of the board says AC1 AC2 AC3 AC4. Here i connect AC1, AC2 to the 50VAC1 and AC3,AC4 to the 50VAC 2.
At the other side it says VDC+ VDC+ Ground Ground Ground VDC- VDC-, so as i need 70VDC i connected Both VDC+ together for the + and both VDC- together for the -, but now i gave 140VDC measured between + and -. What i am missing??? i remember the time at school when + was + and -was-, something changed these years or what?:redface::redface::redface:
Attachment 12626Attachment 12641
PS: PSU problem resolved, Neale helped me here http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/7659-...9481#post59481
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Thanks Silyavski for your reply and I am glad you sorted out the psu problem.
Have you managed to assemble the Z axes and could we have some pictures please.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Hi,
just finished almost everything from the machine part and cables. The box its almost ready.
First of all-Thanks for the interest you are taking in my build!!! And the help of course.
Here are some photos:
/sorry they can be big on small monitor but seems they can not be parsed from G+ so had to copy paste them./
1. The Z axis. 2x6mm plates bolted together. At the back side/not seen/ 2x 20x16mm solid steel bars, on top of them at the back are mounted the rais. 16mm is the distance needed to bolt exactly the ball nut housing.
Generally speaking is good before the build starts to buy 1000 allen bolts with cylindrical head M5x40, for example + say 100 M6x60. Hundreds go for mounting the rails, the others i cut and fit where possible. I mean buying every time 10 screws from the shop is expensive. All bolts together on the machine could easily cost 150euro or more. At local shop the 1000 M5 bolts sell for 60 euro. I found them for 15 euro after extensive online search. The magic word is Din 912
-The M6 bolts are for fixing the screw mounts, ball screw bearings at both ends, linear bearing carriages/hiwin 20/. Where needed i cut them to size. hell i cut a lot of screws these weeks.:hysterical:
- The spindle mount brackets are cast, means not perfect. So i had to fix them on place , mark them, measure, then drill .
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L...2C685_5A116CD0
2.View from side . My dog is again bored from my craziness.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i...2C518_3DD90D07
I am still not convinced how i have to wire the proximity switches. I mean as Limits or Limit + Home. The cables i use is 8 pin. I am still not convinced at that squaring the gantry thing.
Lets see- the machine is perfectly square. And when i say perfectly look at this - moving one of the long ball screws that move the gantry, the gantry moves with ease and the other ball screw rotates by itself :-), all along the distance i mean. I tried moving them in opposite directions but there is no play so actually i can not make it not square, at least by hand i mean.
For the moment i will go as so far that connect the gantry switches only from the left side and make all limits. It will save me some thinking how to pass the cable from the right side. Will do some tests and see if its worth connecting them Limits and Home. For the purpose will make a small connection box at the back of the Z. cause the design is so, that all cables meet there.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X...2C118_0E17F85A
3.The box
Now this is where i wasted a lot of time. My friend just dropped me a plastic box and said -fit all here. Well, i fit it. After a lot of thinking, but was a good exercise. I made all from scratch. Next time will by a fancy box like fellow forum members do. For a reason obviously. But again, it was fun.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J...52C35_58B761B6
Let me tell you something. I wasted a whole f***ng day trying to solder with a chinese tin and flux. I even doubted for a moment that i can solder at all. So ugly and weak...
So very frustrated, i went to the shop and spend 20eur on ???g silver solder and 10 euro on flux they use for copper soldering, liquid with a brush. After a lot of thinking , yeah, i did not want to spend 30 euros more that day.
Well, what a perfect buy. A must. The flux works for everything except aluminum. The solders are Perfect. I was born again from hell. NEVER USE CHINESE SOLDER AND FLUX. Thanks to the guy on Youtube that compared the sh*t with the real thing, so i opened my eyes.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-L...52C64_CA3245CF
The BIG toroidal transformer /650w/ fits nicely into old PC power supply enclosure. Yes, everything is interference isolated in the box. And ventilated :-)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e...2C887_DC663491
This is the side of the box. All connections go here. All connections realized using 4 pin and 8 pin chinese "aviation plug" . That makes me laugh. I certainly don't want to be in that plane :hysterical:
On my machine/next build/ i will use 4 pole Neutrik Speakon plugs only
The air comes from this side, passes through i filter/hate dust in boxes/ , cools the drives and goes out propelled by a 220v/24w ventilator at the other side.
Behind the alu plate is 4mm thick frame which gives place to fit filter. the filter is 0.7euro sheet used in kitchen filters. The box is drilled with a lot of big holes for the air to pass. Say holes total surface is 1.5x the hole of the ventilator.
The most useful instrument in making the box was STEP DRILL. I did not know what it serves for, before hand i mean , so i learned there something.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3...2C331_5ECCAC32
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Hi. The poor Dog :) Love the machine. One comment I would make is that my gantry is aluminium plate (effectively 15mm plate in box configuration) with 20mm alu side plates and I couldnt find any play from one side (X) to the other (from a racking perspective). Once the screws were connected and the motors turned, the machine was well able to rack itself. I'm actually looking forward to the independant homing of the X axis proximity switches, as Jazz noted to me before, the bullet type allow adjustment; I'm banking on this to help me get the gantry square as its being set up. Even though your machine is steel, I suspect it can rack and be adjusted.. just a little.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Hi, love the photos. that does look like a very substantial, purposeful piece of kit. Well done. G.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TonyD
Even though your machine is steel, I suspect it can rack and be adjusted.. just a little.
Would it be possible to lock one lead screw and put a dial gauge on the other side and measure how much (little) it can be moved?
As Geoffrey said, a purposeful looking piece of kit - very nice :-)
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
silyavski very good work and very helpfull thread.
I am planing a machine a little bit bigger than yours (X:1500mm Y:750mm Z:130mm real travel).
I have been inspired by your plans for my machine frame.
I have some questions about what i see.
1. How did your succed to have Z axis rails in the same plane? Did you use epoxy, or did you mill the 6mm plates?
2. Why you use 2x6mm plates instead of one plate 12mm?
3. What clamping system are you going to use?
4. What is the clearance from the lower part of z axis to the cutting surface. Also what is the real traver for your z axis.
5. Finally what is the horizontal distance ( from left to right ) for y,z axis carriages and the vertical distance ( from bottom to top) for y and z axis carriages ( outer side of carriages)?
Thanks for you time
Vagelis
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4 Attachment(s)
Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FatFreddie
Would it be possible to lock one lead screw and put a dial gauge on the other side and measure how much (little) it can be moved?
As Geoffrey said, a purposeful looking piece of kit - very nice :-)
Interesting. I will do that tomorrow and report back. The gantry will not deflect for sure :-).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ba99297
silyavski very good work and very helpfull thread.
I am planing a machine a little bit bigger than yours (X:1500mm Y:750mm Z:130mm real travel).
I have been inspired by your plans for my machine frame.
I have some questions about what i see.
1. How did your succeed to have Z axis rails in the same plane? Did you use epoxy, or did you mill the 6mm plates?
The Z axis rails are in the same plane for 2 reasons:
1. When i mounted the bearing blocks first, i checked the plate with straight edge. luckily it was almost straight. Some hits with big rubber mallet made it perfect.
2. Now having achieved to mount them on a plane surface, using precision square i squared 1 raw of them and tightened them. The rails were in the bearing blocks but not attached to anything else. cause when you measure long things, its easier to detect any error.Then using digital caliper i measured 150mm, tightened the bolt on the caliper and from both sides made sure the distance is the same . Tightened a bit, then with the digital caliper made sure its parallel to 0.01mm. Little bumps with small plastic hammer helped. Then tightened it finally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ba99297
2. Why you use 2x6mm plates instead of one plate 12mm?
I did not want to wast more time. That's what they had at hand at the metal shop. Luckily, cause they were not perfectly flat, so it took a lot of hammering to flatten them against straight edge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ba99297
3. What clamping system are you going to use?
Its up to my friend. On my small machine i have cast aluminum grind flat plate. With a lot of tapped holes. On top of it i mount 10mm hard plastic sheet using bolts at the corners and very very thin double sided glue sheet, the ones they use in photography printing to mount photos to lexan support. I Hot melt glue all jobs. When finished, i use alcohol to un glue the detail.
But with a strong and fast machine that will not always be possible. I know your doubt. I have it for my next machine and still not decided. My best bet will be to use plastic bed. I have to make some visits to the junkyard or an recycling center. And on top of it 5mm expanded PVC . However i plan to invest some money and maybe use steel channel , like a mill, but not on all the bed, just at the nearest side, so to say for fine jobs.
So that's my suggestion. Make 2 areas/ or 3 areas as i will do but my machine will be 3m long and 1.5 wide/ . One with a proper aluminum or steel bed and the other plastic.
Cause MDF will constantly need surfacing, i believe investment here will pay very fast in the future.
Vacuum i am not planning to use. The strength of vacuum is if you have production which is repeatable, or you work with sheets only. However in the future if needed you can make some removable vacuum fixtures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ba99297
4. What is the clearance from the lower part of z axis to the cutting surface. Also what is the real traver for your z axis.
260mm and real travel of 215mm
Now, careful cause this is still unconfirmed info and just a point of view. Its just what months of mind games told me. As i said it many times in the forum, cause that's my view for a DIY really multitask machine, i seem to find that the Z to bed/ frame without anything else/ 250-260mm is perfect. With the trade off that when alu sheet is routed it had to be risen another 100mm at least, using MDF, wooden or so, ribbed or solid, removable bed or fixture.
Below is how my z plate ended. As you see the solid bars combined with the rails reinforce the plate and is very doubtful it will bend, think of bending a solid steel bar ~50mm thick and at least 50mm wide, 500mm long. Another pint here is that i use 2 spindle mounts separated at spindle both ends. So the mounts and the spindle further reinforce the thing. No it will not bend in any way.
Attachment 12684
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ba99297
5. Finally what is the horizontal distance ( from left to right ) for y,z axis carriages and the vertical distance ( from bottom to top) for y and z axis carriages ( outer side of carriages)?
Thanks for you time
Vagelis
What i believe is the absolute minimum for a good strong machine- 240mm for the Z Spacing left right
Attachment 12685
The vertical is my minimum for such a long Z plate. The width of 150mm is the minial as i see it , again having in mind the length
Attachment 12686 Attachment 12687
Hope that helps.
Vagelis, something else.
I have been following your build with great interest, please let me tell you something. This also to the other people that aspire to build a machine. You will need to spend at least 100eur on the following things if you don't have them, to be able to accomplish the precision mounting successfully. They are a MUST. I don't see how it can be done without them and especially by one person.
Believe me on this. Not to mention the satisfaction you will feel when all is mounted precisely.
-1m straight edge or longer.Stainless better
The Must here is to be at least long enough that it can lay on both parallel mounted rails that the gantry slides on. In other words wide as your machine. Without this you will run at the moment of mounting and later at countless problems. The best will be if it has length of the diagonal of the bed or at least of the rail.
Many will disagree but Rectangular section is better than knifed edge, especially if you work alone. Much more cheaper also.
Here is my initial experience with links from where to buy. http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6546-...o-straight-%29
To summarize it DIN 874 is the magic word. Whatever accuracy. Or Din 866 rule, especially if you go bigger machine build. Like my next one. You guessed right, i will buy at least 2 meter one.
-2x 30cm precision squares . Din 875 is the word here. these will help solder , square the gantry, the gantry to the bed, etc. Yes, 2 of them because many times you will clamp them together in clever ways.
-1x <10cm precision square , Din 875 is the word here. Stainless betterfor the tight fits, squaring the spindle, etc.
-2x cheap chinese squares
Once you have bought a really cool reference square, you go with it to the shop and buy cheap squares to use for soldering and damaging jobs. Once you reference them against the good one.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Nice looking machine but the eye is drawn to those brackets from the gantry to the X ball nuts. I know from your posts that you will have made sure these are correct but I have to say they look flimsy in comparion to the rest of the machine.
You made a good job with the control box considering what you had to work with, it's been informative and a pleasure to follow your build.
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5 Attachment(s)
Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EddyCurrent
Nice looking machine but the eye is drawn to those brackets from the gantry to the X ball nuts. I know from your posts that you will have made sure these are correct but I have to say they look flimsy in comparison to the rest of the machine.
On the photos maybe so, but in real life they look normal. Furthermore the actual distance where they are not attached to something is very very short, so they are reinforced by the ball screw nut and the gantry.
Now i want to say it:
The machine is ready and running:yahoo:
:applouse: Thanks to all who helped :applouse: and all who watched the progress.
I would like to write soon a more detailed final conclusions, as these days again learned many things.
But for now i would say that i am extremely happy with the result.
Now about the final accuracy i achieved. Today i run it for first time cutting. My typical starting test is 25mm OD circle in 50mm square
Pictures speak better than words but lets say that all the careful fiddling payed itself and the final/accumulated/ accuracy of the machine without any compensation on mach 3 motor tuning and so is :victorious:0.01-0.02mm :victorious: or less , having in mind that the digital caliper measuring may be not perfect. As you can see perfect super clean circle cut. No mismatch or whatsoever.
PS.The bed is 5cm thick so the Z at the test was extended at its lowest point.
Attachment 12773 Attachment 12774 Attachment 12776 Attachment 12777
All motors are tuned at 8m/min but i believe it can do much much more. I will test it further when on the floor, cause its quite dangerous now to move very fast, the supports flex like crazy.
After 1h of continuing run/ i am surfacing the 10mm plastic bed i fitted over 50mm wood and composite board/ the motor temperature at Y and A/the gantry motors/ is 55C and the X and Z motors is 35C . Its 24C outside.
Soon will post video and some further notes .
Thanks again!
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Hi Boyan,
Just seen your Pm. Sorry not been watching your thread so much as I tend to not to drop in much on those who are experienced or getting along good.
Well you certainly have progressed buddy and done an absolutely cracking job my friend. Looks excellent withTank like strength.:applause: . . . . Health and safety will like that colour scheme certainly won't miss it . . Lol
Look forward to seeing video..!! . . . . . WELL DONE.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Excellent. Really nice build. Well done..!
Wal.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Excellant Machine buddy, a real credit to you.
I am very jealous.
keep us posted with all the things you make on it!.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Cracking build thread, really solid well built machine and an inspiration...
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Hi Buddy
Excellent build and well worth the time and patience you put into its construction.
Mike
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silyavski
On the photos maybe so, but in real life they look normal. Furthermore the actual distance where they are not attached to something is very very short, so they are reinforced by the ball screw nut and the gantry.
I knew you would have got them right, excellent machine and accurate too, just as you intended, spot on.
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
Just installed it at its new home. The precision continues to surprise me. Instead of accumulating, all small imprecision neutralized each other, may be pure luck but still under 0.01 -0.03mm, it seems i can not measure it properly without introducing error. No need though, i am happy.
Surfacing aluminum resulted in glass like surface, small marks are not seen by naked eye and scratch test with fingernail leave impression of trying to scratch glass.
The C23 Bob works like a charm. But the integrated spindle control is erratic. I supply it with 12v stable voltage and it plays the output to spindle with 0.2v witch translates +-200rpm, which makes the spindle sound annoying. Will contact the maker. As i see it i will change the small pot with a big one external, in the hope to cure this problem. All PSUs i use are overrated at least by 100% and brand ones, so may be its the pot.
Next machine - no Flimsy: 8 wire alarm cables, connectors to box, 1 component paint.
The 0.8kw spindle seems now/ as i knew from the beginning/ way underrated. This baby deserves 3kw one and will be called - The Reaper :-). I am boasting :-)
But for its purpose is ideal.
Here is a video of it working. Unfortunately i forgot to make video when it was slicing aluminum and took it when we were testing some 3D jobs. I am surprised from RhinoCam, quite capable and i was able to figure in a minute how to program the 3d job.
A little noisy video, but i wanted to be heard what sound it makes. If i dont forget in a week or 2 will be making some aluminum parts there, so will make another one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9hTLN1CydU
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Re: Sturdy and Fast all Steel CNC , my first build
I have no words
Excellent job
And one more time i want to say that Deans help , your ideas (about frame),Jonathans calculator, and Eddys suggestions drive me along this long trip that called cnc building. Thanks again.
One question
Are you using servos or steppers?
Thanks
Vagelis