Printable View
It's not Rocket Science! All you need to do is bond collars onto your tools to set their insertion depth into the collet and your tool height will be repeatable in a correctly torqued ER collet chuck ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
- Nick
Boyan your wrong or doing something wrong.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
I use Chinese prox switches all the time and my findings are very different. My own machine uses them and I'm cutting Aluminium all the time and regularly cock up in some way so then rely on the home switches to get me back into position. They always get me back into position without issue.
Again wrong or don't Understand WORK OFFSETS.? Why would the machine need to find new machine Zero for each WORK OFFSET. The machine Zero doesn't change between switching offsets so after the initial First home it doesn't need to be done again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
The switch quality or accuracy as nothing to do with WORK OFFSETS. If the machine is setup correctly then after First Homing it will always know where each Fixtrue is located because it's just an OFFSET from MACHINE Zero. Only if MACHINE Zero position is lost will switch accuracy come into play to enable finding WORK Zero again.
I do all the while and also teach it other wise if the tool is set to zero it drags it across the top of the work between moves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
It's very simple to follow a set of standard directions when cutting to protect the work, cutter and operator.
CNC isn't new, what is new is everyone thinking their way is better when it isn't.
I can not waste my time to argue with you guys, plus may be you are professional machinists and teachers and i learned about CNC a couple of years ago. Some of it from you. if you say its right for you, ok. If you say all the world does it that way, i agree and would not argue. My mistake then.
But i couldn't care less for all that. I am having a strong opinion what is good for me, what saves me time and how jobs should be run in my home workshop. I have extremely flexible and open mind plus a good memory. I use whatever technique for the moment that best suits me. As i said i mostly use material top as Z0 but sometimes not. So if i hit go to Zero and tool digs in material, bad for me, but it does not happen, because when i program Z0 to be worktable, i program save Z movement higher than material+bit and usually XY0 is material corner not center, so that have never happened. Anyway, machines are not to sleep at, and one should be very awake when working. When i am tired or not in a good shape, i don't use machines
I have tried to use collars as the Kyocera engraving tools come with collars. They are not precise neither repeatable to my liking. So from that time on i dont care for collars. Its faster not to use that way of thinking,.
Another good reason not to use tool offsets and premeasure tools. I have a small case of tools which in total are around 1500euro worth. They basically just cover my pretty basic needs. i don't have 10 000 to spare on tooling. Many times i use the same tool for various jobs, materials plus even for various type of toolpaths on same job. Which means every time i recalculate toolpaths as needed. Which means every different time i insert the tool into the collet just enough for the job. I dont see the reason to have the same stickout just the tool to be repeatable, to make the work offset and so on.
And yes Dean, i use work offsets and i know what they are. I think you should have guessed when i am saying something is not working i am talking about after power loss. I will demonstrate the switch imprecision with video. Hysteresis. That's what i am talking about. But good for you that your switches are working right. What i have discovered is that all depends how you read the switch, from the moment that gets off or from the moment that gets on again. There is difference between both cases. So i found that when i read in forums and people said there:"use simple on /off switches" and i thought " well that's too simple, sensors must be better" i was wrong. Simple switches work better.
So let me again explain the simplest way to Z0 and use the probe with the DDCS controller:
1.put any flat bottom tool in collet and tighten by hand, not by wrench
2.lower Z axis until the bit touches the work table, then move z down 1-2mm so tool moves inside collet up. Stop.
3.hit preprogrammed button to 0XYZ or just use controller and zero Z
4.lift Z axis
5.put probe on table and hit A for probing operation / + is connected to probe -to spindle or machine/, probe has insulator at the bottom
6.probe is touched and probe thickness is rcorded
7.now you can use the probe whenever you like, top or bottom or whatever, cause thickness is recorded
-hit Zero all button again and all of the above is lost. So don't do that or just have it in mind
That's all. So simple. i take back my words and edited the post where i explained the 2 touch probes scenario, as i just found that i was mistaken and in certain cases this will lead to error. I deleted it so nobody makes the mistake . So just use the above said or the below variation, which i find better, but you need a Z setting gauge.
variation of the above using Zero axis setter with known length and DTI:
2. lower until bit touches zero axis setter and all is zero there.
3. if Z axis setter tool is 50mm high/the typical one/ , hit Z0 and enter 50mm, hit enter. Now machine knows its worktable zero
SB shared that video with me in a message, so thanks! I decided to share here. Don't ask me how is done, i know nothing more but will write or call the guys to see if they share.They are Russians or Ukrainians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvSBstpB3F0
Thank you for the clarification, and for sharing the video.
Sended by my tapatalk
I even noticed that the software limit is not working properly in the controller(or maybe I do all wrong as usual) when I enable the software limit and setup all the traveling limits, the machine do the zero properly, and then the axis start traveling to the setup limit and stop, no other chance to move the machine then, what I'm doing wrong now? Thank you for any help you can give me before I throw the controller in the bin and buy a professional oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314
Sended by my tapatalk
There was something like " ignore limit when home" in the limits menu? Plus i have programmed there to retract 10mm back, i think that was the default.
Now there is an situation where when homing overshoots the 0 and enters in the soft limit zone. What it does then is start to go into the another direction towards the other end limit switch.
Hence generally i find that it's a good practice to disable SOFT LIMIT when homing and then enable it again once homing is done. Or lower the speed of homing so it will stop on time. problem on a big machine like mine, cause you have to wait a lot. Or enter 2-3mm negative soft limit, but problem is that at 4mm it already will hit the sensor.
So i disable soft limit, home and then again i enable it. Anyway, i don't switch off the machine all day long.
On the first machine i have done i had the limits so that they will not interfere with the gantry, but on this one i decided that perpendicular position will give me better accuracy.
Problem solved thank you, was the over shooting that cause the problem, I just added a +/-0.5 mm to each axis and now is perfect, thank you!!
Sended by my tapatalk
What about this one guys? Soon this controller will have a new look and setup!! (this is just a quick screen to try the colorsAttachment 19624
Sended by my tapatalk
You've replaced a graphic with an alternative graphic?
That's "Modding" alright!
;-)
I would call this "customization", as i have no words to describe the original boot screen!!!
But i'm working on a very good graphic, so it will make sense then. This was just a trial.
A big thank to Benedikt for his contribution about the firmware, we hope to make this one "open source" soon.
Yeah great work you two are doing on this, I read the mad modder thread on it last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314
I wonder if Boyan has seen it yet ?
Mmmhhh, don't know , maybe not yet, in the meantime this is the better one, Benedict is going to include the design as default if possible, let's see how is going on in the next few days...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roberts
Cheers 🍻 Attachment 19627
Sended by my tapatalk
The modding this controller needs is the following:
-make A to be slaved to Y / i still dont know if that is not originally done as there is a place where you say if A is B, whatever that means even if degrees does not change to mm/
-make the squaring of gantry YA
-read the M06 command
-reassign the Limit switches inputs for other purposes . This controller only needs 4 home inputs, not 12:beaten:. Connecting the limits together on each axis , like is normally done by DIYers
Who is Benedict? :pirate:
The A axis slave reference can be set as A/X, A/Y, A/Z in my controller,
A or B axis selection is not clear in the software, but at this point everything is possible with the chinese.......
"circ" should mean mm in translation, as the circumference is measured in mm, not in degree,(rotation=degree)
Benedikt is the Mistery man :-)
I discovered that i have a problem with small carvings and very fine details. I tried 2 times to carve a stamp from aluminum ~30mm diameter, X and Y started slowly to loose position. Lowered the acceleration from 3000 to 1000, did a dry run also.
Same problem persists. :grumpy:.
Now the question is: the controller??? or the servos need further tuning??? or i have to slow further things down, which i dont believe is the case. I remember i bumped up servos quite much to be responsive via software and even 3000 accelerations and more than 10000 mm/m speeds on objects like 200x200cm there was no problem at all. Checked initially the machine, does not seem to have sth loose.
Any ideas??? Could that be the small lines? Exported v carving file as arcs also, same again. Thinking about it it looses both X and Y and moves slowly in diagonal on every step down of the Z is visible. At the end of tool path controller shows same machine coordinates as on start 0.
Should i try to find the look ahead in the controller and make it bigger, i was thinking of disabling drawing the tool paths?
i don know what exactly to do now except bump more the servo response and see what happens
If there is option to change Step edge ie: Active hi/lo then try this. You could be on the wrong side of the edge in which case you'll lose 1 pulse for every direction change.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
In the controller, in the last part of the machine parameter you can fond the "interpolation period", set it up at 0,005 and try it, change even the "screen refresh" at not less than 4000, otherwise the screen will slow the cpu, as it not equipped with a graphic card.(you don't need to watch the screen, watch the machine).
Find even the "operating acceleration" parameter and set it up at 500mm is the diagonal interpolated acceleration try it and find a reasonable one for your machine.
Is just a bit of thing to try, maybe it won't help you, but it worth try.....
If you have servos, they are coming with resolver on the back, so your motors know exactly where and when they are at all time.
So, even with strong acceleration they shouldn't loose position... Here the problem: is your Router ridgid enough? Because with long traveling and strong accelerations the structure has the time to stabilize in between the movment, with very short traveling the machine is going into a factor called "structural resonance" and "inverted motion", what that mean? It mean that the axis is called to travel in a direction, but due to acceleration and mass involved the underneath structure is going in the opposite direction, and in a very small piece this factor is noticeable, even more when you are carving aluminium rather than wood, thats why the milling machines are heavy, especially CNC centers. Another thing to check is the connections between the motors and the ballscrews.... check all the mechanic parts first, as per very small pieces and high acceleration you are going to join another world with a high inversion rate, is called "jerk"
A router is a router, and as much as you like it, is shaking and flexible under high torque.....
I would suggest you to lower the acceleration to 300/500mm Min and look if the problem is persistent before retuning all the motors and blame them or the controller.
Regards
I always forget about that one, but as far as i remember was correctly set to work with normal BOB. I will now check again. In controller could not find a way to change that. I know where to change that in the servos. Will have to read the manual again though.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
PS. alright, there is that in the controller, i found it. will try it later
Machine is quite rigid, servos are more or less quite accurately calculated, so actually they are not over sized for the machine but exactly sized. I had some under and overshooting before, but i raised quite much the snappiness of it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314
I started now changing things here. I did that just before reading what you said, but more or less i deducted the same. I lowered panel response time to 1000, raised read lines / not shown here in manual/ to max 3600. Which i assume is the read ahead? and lowered interpolation time to 0.002 , which should give much tighter corners or will lower mechanical resolution? its not clear what they want to say. Just testing it now. If not ok 0.002 i will raise it to 0.01 to see what happens
Attachment 19634
Ok. The changes did not work so i reset all back to normal. after all if the controller is capable of 400kz per axis i dont see what the problem could be from secondary details like display and so on.
First i took a look at my drive and motor timing specs and compared with the timing of the controller. Results that this controller is really high spec and the servos must not have any problem with the default setting:
Attachment 19635Attachment 19637
So far so good. I include the above line of thoughts just for the sake if somebody needs to understand whats happening with his setup.
Again back to what Dean said, about the pulse. looking at the table below it seemed i should not have had a problem as both in the controller and drives was set to high / step pulse/ . Changed the controller pulse to low and now its working fine. Thanks Dean!
Attachment 19636
Though i still not get why on controller Z is set differently than X and Y as default? No i have to think of a way to check the correctness of Z . Problem seems to be as till now i had done files where Z has no more than 5 steps, so may be thats why i had not seen the problem. I dont know if it counts that the CAM makes the Z oscillate on the toolpath, i think that counts a a change, so it seems better not touch anything for now.
Your Welcome and it catches lots of people out. Seen people replace drives and motors because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
The problem I've encountered often is that while the Manual says one thing the switches on the drives are set opposite and this is probably the case here.?
Not quite understanding what your saying here Boyan.? If your menaing to check pulse edge (polarity) then it's easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
Make up G-code file of short back n forth moves ending with move back to Zero. Mark the start position and when done should be back at same place.
Boyan - I can't quite read the small writing on the "command pulse" timing diagram but I think that it might say that you need a minimum of 3msec between direction change and step pulse. However, in the controller settings, this seems to be set to a lower value (300nsec, 0.3msec). As I say, I might have misread the diagram but it might be worth a quick check to make sure that the timings are OK. Apologies if I am wrong and you have already checked this.
Neale, i think you are right to note that.
I think they are talking microsecond in manual, not miliseconds, its marked "m" like handwriting. As it makes more sense to me looking at the numbers.
If i am right about that, then:
it says T3 , T7 <0.1ms which in controller is set by default Itime between DIR & pulse 300 ns where 300 ns=0.3ms, so this one seems ok
T4, T5, T6>3ms which in controller is width of pulsesignal(include time of #416)2000 ns where 2000ns=2ms , seems i have to raise that a bit , though somewhere the manual of the controller says: if you dont know better leave default :joker:
Dean, did you check the Rattm controller if software and firmware is the same? If you have time and spare motors / i am sure you have/ could you try what does that mean for the A axis , choose A or B. maybe even if it says degrees it is mm, who knows.
Not exactly sure where to find firmware version. I can see on main screen it says whats below which presume is software version. Can't see any ref to Firmware only this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski
Normal Mod
Ver:2016-06-29-81NOR
Not had much time to play with this but I will try to throw some motors on it and try.
Ok Boyan thrown some motors on controller and CANNOT make it Slave the motors together. changed all settings and still no Joy.
The A/B selection makes no difference. Setting A pulse to from Pulse/Deg to Pulse/Circ just makes the A motor ONLY spin continuesly with no control over it. Pulse Degree does exactly that moves in Degree increments per pulse.
I'm also not impressed with the Crap Terminal connectors on back what load of rubbish. Tiny holes and half of them won't clamp properly. I see loads of potential for trouble with lose or fallen out wires with these things.!!
Merlin, any updates on the firmware?Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314
Yes, Benedict is working on a new compiler, but he updated a new mod, go on the website and download it, even the new splash screen is included, is a hard job, but we will do it, in the meantime I am re designing the front of the panel, in a few days I'll post the new job, as I am going to build the Cnc controller panel with the hand wheel embedded and all the buttons..... Hopefully!!
Sent by my tapatalk
Sweet sounds really good for the DDSC, I look forward to seeing the panel, can never have enough build log pictures so keep them coming !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314
:thumsup:
For the ones without the link http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,11598.200.html
You are doing great job there guys!
So we better start thinking then what exactly and how to be made better there in the new software.
About the panel and the rubber pad insert for the keys.
We/me and Jeff/ just bought ourselves a new 3d printer / PrusaMk2/ so soon i will be able to print the rubber and the plastic if needed. So feel free to design something better Open Source :-). I will print it , no problem. Though if what you are doing guys works, this will well deserve an Aluminum panel
Now just to heat your heads a bit more::loyal:
By the way there is an manufacturer of very similar/ if not even better board by the looks of it / that only difference is it can not read continuously from USB disc and has line limit. But if needed i can contact them and ask for software. I did not bother before with them as this one seemed more refined.
More info, quotes from emails:
TC55A is conversational programming and TC55B is G code programming.
We do not have English documents about it, but the system supports English operation.
TC55A is basically big version of TC55V and TC55B is big version of TC55H.
me:
Now there is some very important thing. In manual it says:
Electronic Gearing: Numerator : 1-99999,
Denominator : 1-99999
USB: For Importing NC Programs and Boot Page Pictures
Optically Isolated I/O ports
Maximum number of Program Lines: 799
Maximum number of Programs: 99 RAM: 128M
So the question is:
-If i load 100 000 line G code on USB, will it work, reading from USB and executing G code whole program?
What does it mean Maximum number of Program Lines: 799 ????
them:
Sorry, 100 000 will not work.
The manual is old, TC55H can support 999 at max, and TC55B can do 9999
Attachment 19672Attachment 19671
Everything will be open source Boyan, that's why we are here..
i will share DXF and 3D models of course, we are thinking to have the complete panel re designed, let's see what i can do.....
So you guys bought a 3d printer.... well let me tell you, you will need a long time before you print rubber after plastic if is the first printer you have, is not an easy job, it looks like a joke, but when you start printing seriously( i mean accurate models) here is when your stress start :-)), happy head aches to you:beer:
Anyway, if you need help for the printer just ask, i'm happy to help, i'm in the 3d printer world for years, they have no secrets for me.
If you are courious have a look at http://www.thingiverse.com
lots of models and things to learn.
Regards
PS.
I remember someone saying that the 4 axis is not working/linking to the other axis..
well here is working, have a look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pi-ramLLSo
Is a cheap controller, but it has a good potential if we find the way to crack the firmware and add some more features and routines
Maybe your miss understanding what was meant.? It was me who said doesn't work and I'm talking about Slaved axis. As in two motor/drives on separate outputs working as one axis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314
That controller is exactly the same one I have and it DOESNT allow slaved motors. This video is just showing it working as 3 + 1 which the controller will do no problem. The fact they have twin screws means they are using dodgy practise of using one output to control two drives or even worse one drive to control two motors.?
IT DOESNT SLAVE TRUST ME.!!!!
I apologize Jazz, I wasn't badmouthing anyone, I just missunderstood.... Sorry
Sent by my tapatalk
No no didn't think for one minute you was and not jumping on you so please don't take it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314
Just making clear it's not what was meant and doesn't do slaved axis like people think it does.
Anyway it was good to know that 4rth axis is working cause just this morning i was wondering after all the hype if 4rth axis could work at all as there was no video.
By the way i forgot to tell that all this time the 3 axis controller was loaded with the latest 4 axis software and apart from 4rth not showing on DRO, everything works fine as you know. I dont know if the 4rth will work actually but just is good to know. Anyway the 4rth axis version and the 3 axis version share same hardware.
Thanks for the update, where did you get the 4 axis software?
Sent by my tapatalk
I have 2. The one on the controller i got from Joules, i have one also directly from the manufacturer/ ok, from the agent who contacted the manufacturer for me/. If it can help i will send it to you. That was obtained 2-3 weeks ago.
Attachment 19696
Hi Boyan, thanks for the file information. It seems that your 4 axis files (most likely located in the /mnt/nand1_1 folder) seem to differ slightly from the ones I've found on MadModder member Benedikt M's firmware dump collection. Especially the files "safez.nc" and "systemLib.nc" seem to have some content in them, in the dumps I've seen these files are empty. Also the translation file "eng" and the "setting" file seem to have a different content, based on the different CRC checksum.
I guess you might want to send both your 4 axis software install packages to Benedikt, it would be extremely interesting to see the content of the differing files! And to see if there's any chance to upgrade the 3 axis box to having one more useful axis... :)
Attachment 19697
Boyan , please if you can send me the files would be great, [email protected] if you can. Thanks a lot!! Just the motion. Out and Linuxrc, the others one are the same. Cheers 🍻
Sent by my tapatalk
I've got the RATTM RMHV2.1 4 Axis controller here are all the files off the controller.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin201314