Any USB/Ethernet controller suggestions?

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could give me some input or suggestions on a controller to buy. A few details to be noted, I'd need it to be either USB or Ethernet but not parallel port because my desktop broke(which had a parallel port) left me glued to my laptop. Now this is mainly for hobby use, therefore I can't spend too much, yet I do realize that these can get quite expensive.

I don't have any experience with the software control either so I'm open to suggestions on that too (although I've seen some solid reviews on Linux cnc and I see mach is commonly used for hobbiest use).

Finally my opinion; I had an Arduino Uno, with grbl firmware downloaded. For a few days I was able to get it working my old cnc by attaching it's pin outs to the proper input pins on my 3axis tb6560. I accidentally left the current slightly too high from the power supply resulting in the tb6560 board eventually frying. Although this happened, I still think it's a good idea to use Arduino as a cnc controller because it is so cheap for what it can offer.

Anywho, like I said, I'm just looking for some suggestions on controller boards and software, I think Arduino is a good controller but I'm open to any opinions as I'm inexperienced. (FYI: I have a 3 axis cnc router 4',2' that consists of nema 23's running off 3 amps).

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Originally Posted by jtar40

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could give me some input or suggestions on a controller to buy. A few details to be noted, I'd need it to be either USB or Ethernet but not parallel port because my desktop broke(which had a parallel port) left me glued to my laptop. Now this is mainly for hobby use, therefore I can't spend too much, yet I do realize that these can get quite expensive.

I don't have any experience with the software control either so I'm open to suggestions on that too (although I've seen some solid reviews on Linux cnc and I see mach is commonly used for hobbiest use).

Finally my opinion; I had an Arduino Uno, with grbl firmware downloaded. For a few days I was able to get it working my old cnc by attaching it's pin outs to the proper input pins on my 3axis tb6560. I accidentally left the current slightly too high from the power supply resulting in the tb6560 board eventually frying. Although this happened, I still think it's a good idea to use Arduino as a cnc controller because it is so cheap for what it can offer.

Anywho, like I said, I'm just looking for some suggestions on controller boards and software, I think Arduino is a good controller but I'm open to any opinions as I'm inexperienced. (FYI: I have a 3 axis cnc router 4',2' that consists of nema 23's running off 3 amps).

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Its all relative. Budget?

Ive personally just upgraded my lathe to CNC using Centroid's Acorn. Lovely kit / hardware and no more Mach 3. Not the cheapest option but by no means the most expensive either.

Budget will largely determine your options ...

hi
i have used the ethernet version of the smoothstepper from warp9,with great success.
coupled with the pmdx 126 breakout board and gecko stepper motor drivers. these were used to convert a connect 121 lathe and a cncmasters junior mill, to mach 3

regards paul

Arduino/GRBL is the cheapest option. Not that high performance, or that many features, but will plod along and do the job.

Next step up would be a secondhand desktop to get a working parallel port. Opens up the options of LinuxCNC, or Mach.

Then you're in to the realm of various USB/Ethernet external motion controllers.
CS-Labs, PMDX, CNC-Drive UCxxx, KFlop, SmoothStepper, Planet CNC, along with various Chinese offerings, and a few others I've forgotten.

What would be recommended depends on if you're looking for any specific features, want certain customisation, and budget.

Alright so I've gotten a lot of input and I realized the common denominator is that it really depends on what software you're starting with, and what your budget is set at.
So I got some great input on Linux cnc although I read up on it that you need a Real Time Operating System, (I don't really have a great understanding on that, if someone could help a brother out). I also see Mach3 and 4 are very common yet unreliable (I'm not totally sure why it isn't reliable but can someone explain or direct me to where I can find out)
I've also got solid recommendations about UCCNC using the UC400ETH controller

So what would you guys recommend, or why would you guys not recommend another software.

By the way, up till now I was thinking of purchasing the Ethernet smooth stepper with Mach 3/4, or the UC400 with UCCNC.

Summary- what cnc software would you recommend for someone building a simple 3 axis cnc
- sorry again if I left anything out, let me know.

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personally I would get the uc300eth and UCCNC

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Originally Posted by Chaz

Its all relative. Budget?

Ive personally just upgraded my lathe to CNC using Centroid's Acorn. Lovely kit

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What would be customs charges on this package?

Phill

For a basic 3 axis machine, then there's not really much to choose between controllers.
You might also want to consider one of the standalone controllers (search ebay for "CNC offline controller" or "CNC standalone controller").

Regards Mach 3 problems, on a basic machine it works fine. There are some issues when you go beyond the basics though, especially with external motion controllers, but nothing that really makes it unusable. It's just quirks that mean you might not be able to do things how you think they should be done.

Mach 4 is fine, it's just it's never really been that popular. Mach 3 was pretty revolutionary for it's time and is why it is so popular, but technology has changed, there are far more options now, and Mach 4 doesn't really bring any major benefits over the other options.

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Originally Posted by phill05

What would be customs charges on this package?

Phill

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If declared properly, IIRC it's 2.2% duty, plus courier handling fee, plus 20% VAT.
So if you budget 23% for the governments cut, then £10-25 for the couriers fee, it'll give you a rough idea.

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Originally Posted by phill05

What would be customs charges on this package?

Phill

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£70 ish. Ordered on Sunday night, received Wednesday same week.

Thank you.

Doesn't using Centroid tie you to using a Windows 10 PC?

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Originally Posted by magicniner

Doesn't using Centroid tie you to using a Windows 10 PC?

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Probably but I’m ok with that.

It should be fine if you vet updates before applying them, it's still "Bleeding Edge" for systems you require to have guaranteed up time, if your CNC PC doesn't connect to the Internet and is only used for running the machine there should be no issues at all.

On a budget
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-4-Axi...EAAOSwQ7hauLAl
No import tax (For EU at least) with MPG wheel or just search ebay for 500khz cnc for direct from china without the wheel. (~£130, take the risk)

You could do a lot worse there's a thread on here about them, many happy users on here and plenty of people to help you get started.

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10187...ion-controller

Not sure how import tax works in Algeria it might be cheaper to import from China or EU you have to check this yourself.

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Originally Posted by jtar40

Alright so I've gotten a lot of input and I realized the common denominator is that it really depends on what software you're starting with, and what your budget is set at.
So I got some great input on Linux cnc although I read up on it that you need a Real Time Operating System, (I don't really have a great understanding on that, if someone could help a brother out). I also see Mach3 and 4 are very common yet unreliable (I'm not totally sure why it isn't reliable but can someone explain or direct me to where I can find out)
I've also got solid recommendations about UCCNC using the UC400ETH controller

So what would you guys recommend, or why would you guys not recommend another software.

By the way, up till now I was thinking of purchasing the Ethernet smooth stepper with Mach 3/4, or the UC400 with UCCNC.

Summary- what cnc software would you recommend for someone building a simple 3 axis cnc
- sorry again if I left anything out, let me know.

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I am using UC300ETH and UCCNC. It works just as well with Mach3 but I like UCCNC more. I would definitely recommand either UC400ETH or UC300ETH. If you don't need more inputs than what is available on the UC400ETH and you have no need for extra ain/aout then the UC400ETH is an excellent choice. You don't NEED to get the UCCNC software, but at that price it is definitely worth to try. You can also just download the software without license, it will in that case run in demo mode, which includes everything except motion commands. That way you can try it out and see if you like it or not, but it isn't very expensive, so it is worth to get a license because that would definitely show the advantages of it over Mach3, which is considerably more expensive than UCCNC. Also, UCCNC is actively maintained and developed, Mach3 is dead.

If you want new drivers, I'd advice you to get DQ542MA drivers. Those are very good and reliable. You can buy the drivers from some eBay seller and will not pay any tax if you select delivery from Germany or UK or other EU countries. UCCNC and the UCx00ETH motion controllers can be bought directly form Hungary, so it is also from EU.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

If you want new drivers, I'd advice you to get DQ542MA drivers. Those are very good and reliable. You can buy the drivers from some eBay seller and will not pay any tax if you select delivery from Germany or UK or other EU countries. UCCNC and the UCx00ETH motion controllers can be bought directly form Hungary, so it is also from EU.

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That would be bad advise.! The DQ542MA are Analog drives which is old technology. Yes they may work ok for you or others but that doesn't make them good drives to buy. There is no reason to use Analog drives these days because Digital drives are so cheap and the performance difference is very noticable.

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

That would be bad advise.! The DQ542MA are Analog drives which is old technology. Yes they may work ok for you or others but that doesn't make them good drives to buy. There is no reason to use Analog drives these days because Digital drives are so cheap and the performance difference is very noticable.

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By any chance is there a specific digital driver you may recommend? I just see so many options it's quite hard to know what may be reliable.

(-I'm not sure if I mentioned it before but if it's relevant, I have 3 nema 23 stepper motors running off 3 amps and I was thinking of getting a uc300eth as the interface, I didn't really put much thought into the breakout board yet because I've been told it can be quite general for the simple 3axis cnc router machine I'm looking for making.)

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Originally Posted by jtar40

By any chance is there a specific digital driver you may recommend? I just see so many options it's quite hard to know what may be reliable.

(-I'm not sure if I mentioned it before but if it's relevant, I have 3 nema 23 stepper motors running off 3 amps and I was thinking of getting a uc300eth as the interface, I didn't really put much thought into the breakout board yet because I've been told it can be quite general for the simple 3axis cnc router machine I'm looking for making.)

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You can't go wrong with AM882's
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leadshine...n/282651392228

Or EM806 (Which seem functionally identical to AM882)
https://www.zappautomation.co.uk/ele...ion/em806.html

I have AM882's very happy with them.

I think you're better off spending the money on decent digital drivers and a cheap BOB than cheap drivers but expensive controller. It's cheaper to upgrade the BOB than the drivers and gets you working ASAP.

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

That would be bad advise.! The DQ542MA are Analog drives which is old technology. Yes they may work ok for you or others but that doesn't make them good drives to buy. There is no reason to use Analog drives these days because Digital drives are so cheap and the performance difference is very noticable.

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Are you kidding? The OP replaces TB6560 drivers and talks about Arduino...

The DQ542MA may be old analogue technology but it is well working, reliable, runs cold, fast and quiet as well as cheap, and for most amateurs/hobby users, that is more important than fancy modern digital drivers. Maybe one day I will get some digital drivers just for the fun of it, but to be honest, I really don't believe it would show any difference in my case. My machine is as fast as it can get and is much better than most other stepper based machines with direct driven ball screws can do, so I really don't know where digital drives could make a difference. Just because something is "digital" it isn't automatically better...

Also, I am sure you know this, but how well your drivers perform also depends on the motion controller. There is no benefit of faster and more modern drivers if you are limited by the mechanical and electrical design of the CNC.

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Originally Posted by jtar40

(-I'm not sure if I mentioned it before but if it's relevant, I have 3 nema 23 stepper motors running off 3 amps and I was thinking of getting a uc300eth as the interface, I didn't really put much thought into the breakout board yet because I've been told it can be quite general for the simple 3axis cnc router machine I'm looking for making.)

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I have the UC300ETH, but unless you feel you need many inputs/outputs the UC400 is in my opinion better because it is easier to box it. The power connection on the UC300 is a bit misplaced, and been inherited from the UC300USB. No big deal, but it is a bit irritating. If I buy another one it will be the UC400ETH because I don't need the analogue inputs/outputs and two ports are enough. I have two very cheap, $5 BOBs and they have been working well for about two years now. You can also buy a more expensive, industry quality BOB as well, but it is very expensive (but looks better). The analogue outputs are not needed to control the VFD if you have a BOB with 0-10V PWM out. I control mine via Modbus, which I think is much better, so I don't use any analogue outputs at all.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

Are you kidding? The OP replaces TB6560 drivers and talks about Arduino...

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No I'm not Kidding and the OP ask's for suggestions for Good drives and to advise he buys old Analog technology is bad advise IMO.

Like I say just because your using them and happy with them doesn't make them good. It just means you don't know any better. You've already proven this by saying you havent used Digital drives so can't possibly know the difference.

Also to claim your machine is fast as it can get and is better than any other stepper machine is just plain ridiculous when your using analog drives with 50Vdc drives. Digital drives running stepper motors with 70Vdc will blow any analog drive with motors running 45Vdc out the water on every level.
Even like for like on voltage Digital drives will make difference to both speed and smoothness.

Regards the Controller making a big difference then your correct. However this is also a area where Digital drives make a huge difference over Analog when not using good motion controller Ie: PP because they handle resonance and lower grade signals so much better.

This isn't about Digital is better just for the sake of it. The truth is, whether you care to accept it or not, is that Digital is better for several reasons and anyone who has had shity Analog drives will tell you this.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

You can't go wrong with AM882's
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leadshine...n/282651392228

Or EM806 (Which seem functionally identical to AM882)
https://www.zappautomation.co.uk/ele...ion/em806.html

I have AM882's very happy with them.

I think you're better off spending the money on decent digital drivers and a cheap BOB than cheap drivers but expensive controller. It's cheaper to upgrade the BOB than the drivers and gets you working ASAP.

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What would be the point of buying 8A drivers to run 3A motors with? "Better" is a relative... is it 4-5 times better than the DQ542MA? It MUST be 4-5 times better to motivate the price difference, but I doubt that. Sure, with unlimited budget, no question about it, but I still doubt there is ANY benefit at all to use 8A drivers to run 3A motors. Also, the UC300ETH is not an "expensive" controller at all, quite the opposite, but again, even "expensive" is very relative.

Also, the OP asked about reliable recommendations, not just eBay guessing. It is pretty easy to list a bunch of expensive parts and claim they are "better" without describing what they are better at and why or how. Of course, very few really KNOWS because very few people actually tried many different drivers, controllers, bobs in all kind of combinations.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

What would be the point of buying 8A drivers to run 3A motors with?

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I must have missed the actual motor spec, all I saw was that they were running off 3A, I have a set of NEMA 23 steppers that are rated 4.2A :D

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

No I'm not Kidding and the OP ask's for suggestions for Good drives and to advise he buys old Analog technology is bad advise IMO.

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Fine, but then why debate with me and not giving him better advise?

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Like I say just because your using them and happy with them doesn't make them good. It just means you don't know any better. You've already proven this by saying you havent used Digital drives so can't possibly know the difference.

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My own experience is just as valid as anybody else's, but if I am wrong, fine, explain why and where so we all can learn something. Saying that I am wrong does not help anyone.

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Also to claim your machine is fast as it can get and is better than any other stepper machine is just plain ridiculous when your using analog drives with 50Vdc drives. Digital drives running stepper motors with 70Vdc will blow any analog drive with motors running 45Vdc out the water on every level.
Even like for like on voltage Digital drives will make difference to both speed and smoothness.

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It doesn't help if in theory it can spin faster when in reality the limits of the ball screw is reached. Of course, if you just spin the motor milling air (or just spinning) then it may be smoother and faster but will you REALLY see any difference in real use? Will the difference REALLY be as much as the difference in price? I doubt that.

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Regards the Controller making a big difference then your correct. However this is also a area where Digital drives make a huge difference over Analog when not using good motion controller Ie: PP because they handle resonance and lower grade signals so much better.

This isn't about Digital is better just for the sake of it. The truth is, whether you care to accept it or not, is that Digital is better for several reasons and anyone who has had shity Analog drives will tell you this.

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"Shitty driver" is the TB chips based drivers, not the DQ542MA. Anybody who claims the DQ542MA is a "shitty driver" has no idea about what he is talking about. Yes, no doubt that the digital drivers are better, the question is just how much better. Dismissing my experience is fine by me, but if you want to help the OP then answer his questions. I'll be fine with my "shitty drivers" as long as they do what they are expected to do, run as smooth and fast as they do and are as reliable as they are.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

What would be the point of buying 8A drivers to run 3A motors with? "Better" is a relative... is it 4-5 times better than the DQ542MA? It MUST be 4-5 times better to motivate the price difference, but I doubt that. Sure, with unlimited budget, no question about it, but I still doubt there is ANY benefit at all to use 8A drivers to run 3A motors. Also, the UC300ETH is not an "expensive" controller at all, quite the opposite, but again, even "expensive" is very relative.

Also, the OP asked about reliable recommendations, not just eBay guessing. It is pretty easy to list a bunch of expensive parts and claim they are "better" without describing what they are better at and why or how. Of course, very few really KNOWS because very few people actually tried many different drivers, controllers, bobs in all kind of combinations.

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If you want to upgrade the controller and spent $5 on a BOB then you are out of pocket $5, if you want to upgrade the drivers you are out of pocket £120 for 4

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-4-2A-...MAAOxyni9TFCPq

To me spend the cash on the AM882's for stall protection and use a cheap BOB then upgrade the electronics later when budget allows.

A cheap BOB is also compatible with mach 3 and linuxcnc so you can try both before locking yourself into a vendor without trying the software out.

It's basically double the cost for AM882's and then the extra cost for supplying 70v instead of 48v, you'll see most of us with 80v drivers make a PSU with transformer, rectifier and capacitors which adds another £70 making 4*AM882, PSU and BOB £320 which is to me the minimum spec for building a new router.

With a cheap PP BOB and a reasonable latency PC if you set microsteps to 8 (Or even 2 on slow PC) you'll get good enough performance to run at max speed on any home machine.

You could get EM503's, which are 50V and 4.2A, but AM882's are cheaper. I've payed as little as $58 for AM882's.

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Originally Posted by Desertboy

If you want to upgrade the controller and spent $5 on a BOB then you are out of pocket $5, if you want to upgrade the drivers you are out of pocket £120 for 4

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-4-2A-...MAAOxyni9TFCPq

To me spend the cash on the AM882's for stall protection and use a cheap BOB then upgrade the electronics later when budget allows.

A cheap BOB is also compatible with mach 3 and linuxcnc so you can try both before locking yourself into a vendor without trying the software out.

It's basically double the cost for AM882's and then the extra cost for supplying 70v instead of 48v, you'll see most of us with 80v drivers make a PSU with transformer, rectifier and capacitors which adds another £70 making 4*AM882, PSU and BOB £320 which is to me the minimum spec for building a new router.

With a cheap PP BOB and a reasonable latency PC if you set microsteps to 8 (Or even 2 on slow PC) you'll get good enough performance to run at max speed on any home machine.

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I still don't understand what the benefit would be in using 8A drivers with 3A motors. In my opinion that's overkill. Also, if I would spend that much on the driver I would NOT buy a cheap BOB. I understand that the AM882 has stall protection, but come on... is it really a huge issue? After all, stall is a cause of wrong use or configuration. Also, why not the DM542T? It is more of a realistic match for the 3A motors than the AM882 and is much cheaper. Yes, the AM882 is 80V while the DM542T is only 50V, but again, if a machine is well built you will hit the speed limit anyway, even with the 50V drivers.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

I still don't understand what the benefit would be in using 8A drivers with 3A motors. In my opinion that's overkill. Also, if I would spend that much on the driver I would NOT buy a cheap BOB. I understand that the AM882 has stall protection, but come on... is it really a huge issue? After all, stall is a cause of wrong use or configuration. Also, why not the DM542T? It is more of a realistic match for the 3A motors than the AM882 and is much cheaper. Yes, the AM882 is 80V while the DM542T is only 50V, but again, if a machine is well built you will hit the speed limit anyway, even with the 50V drivers.

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Current and voltage has little to do with the reason.
DM/Q drives are older technology.
AM/EM drives are the latest technology, with the benefits of auto-tuning and anti-resonance. Both of which mean the drives have much better performance for any given power supply or motor. Stall detection is just an additional feature, which on dual motor axes, can greatly limit racking damage should a stall occur, and can also stop things on single motor axes, should something go wrong. You've got to remember, it's not just over tuning that can cause stalling, crashes can as well.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

Fine, but then why debate with me and not giving him better advise?

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I didn't need to give OP any advise because the correct advice had already been given by others. Unfortunately thou not by you and thou you don't like to hear this it must be said for the benifit of others.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

My own experience is just as valid as anybody else's, but if I am wrong, fine, explain why and where so we all can learn something. Saying that I am wrong does not help anyone.

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Yes your advise if valid agreed to a point.! . . But to spout and I quote "My machine is as fast as it can get and is much better than most other stepper based machines with direct driven ball screws can do, so I really don't know where digital drives could make a difference."
without any experience of ever using Digital drives and probably with same amount of experience of other machines with same setup to me just cancels out any validity to anything you said.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

It doesn't help if in theory, it can spin faster when in reality the limits of the ball screw is reached. Of course, if you just spin the motor milling air (or just spinning) then it may be smoother and faster but will you REALLY see any difference in real use? Will the difference REALLY be as much as the difference in price? I doubt that.

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How do you know you have reached the limit of the ballscrew.? I'm guessing your using 5mm pitch screw and I can tell you with 100% certainty thru lots of experience that 50V Analog drive with 3A motor, which will probably be running 40-45Vdc cannot get any where near the limit of 5mm Pitch screw that is correctly fitted. Even a 50V Digital drive with same voltage won't get near it's limit.

I suspect your going to quote ballscrews Critical speed in reply to this but I'm talking real world usage which is very different thing so don't waste your fingers.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

"Shitty driver" is the TB chips based drivers, not the DQ542MA. Anybody who claims the DQ542MA is a "shitty driver" has no idea about what he is talking about. Yes, no doubt that the digital drivers are better, the question is just how much better. Dismissing my experience is fine by me, but if you want to help the OP then answer his questions.

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No your the one who has no idea what he's talking about and here's why. The DQ542MA are just copies of original leadshine M542. Which in there day were just an average Analog drive, nothing special. As time went on Analog drives got little better with more advanced chopper circuits etc but still had limits/issues under certain setup/circumstances.
Jump forward several years and Digital drive arrived and even the early drives where major advancement from analog drives and when compairing to Cheap copies of Analog drive like DQ542MA where very big difference.

The current crop of Digital drives are light years more advanced than Analog drives with the end result being far superior performence gains in overall speed and much smoother performance at lower speeds and generally across the rull RPM range compared to Analog.
Combined then these make considerable difference in performance and I've seen machines with Old Analog drives which struggled to reach 1000 rpm instantly spin same motors at 1500rpm with smoother action and far less heating.

Now just to show I'm not just talking theory or got feeling in my water Digital may be better.! Watch these videos which I took to try and show others the difference Digital drives make. Also Just note that the videos don't actually tell the true picture or show the true difference in sound or smoothness. The same machine with only a drive change went from a maximum rapid speed of 8mtr/min to 15mtr/min.!! . . . And if you still think I'm bull shitting then I've got witness who can back this up in form of Clive S.

Anyone who's done there research on this forum will have seen that many many times I've expalined and shown why Digital is better. Every thing I advise is based on real world hands on experience, like wise If I recommend or call something bad it's based on me using or experiencing this product. Or I make it clear I've not used them but know from trusted sources that are good/bad.

Unlike you I would never put down or Dismiss something without first experiencing. Also I do get tired of repeating my self so please don't try giving me shit because I've not choosen to repeat my self but instead decided to try helping others by highlighting your Bad advise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er4XEEbjk1E&t=30s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2-Aub2fetw&t=64s

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Originally Posted by m_c

Current and voltage has little to do with the reason.
DM/Q drives are older technology.
AM/EM drives are the latest technology, with the benefits of auto-tuning and anti-resonance. Both of which mean the drives have much better performance for any given power supply or motor. Stall detection is just an additional feature, which on dual motor axes, can greatly limit racking damage should a stall occur, and can also stop things on single motor axes, should something go wrong. You've got to remember, it's not just over tuning that can cause stalling, crashes can as well.

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That is not entirely right. While the DM542T is not the absolutely latest and greatest, it is actually a 2017 product and is in production (by Stepperonline), while the AM882 is obsolete, but still sold, and is advised NOT to be used in new products. At least if we look at what Leadshine is saying about their products. The DM and DQ drivers are not the same, as far as I know, DM is original Leadshine, DQ is fake copy and Leadshine still makes the DM driver. The latest is the EM-S, which probably will replace the DM drivers one day. The DM542E is made by Leadshine and is from 2016 and is in production, the AM product line is no longer in production.

http://www.leadshineusa.com/product-...stepper-drives

Jazz, those two videos are not very informative. No data about what "Clive Analog" or AM882 digital is using for motors, power supply or anything. Also, in my opinion, milling air is pretty pointless, if you want to show speed you should run rapid passes, not milling imaginary material. Yes, you say it went from 8m/min to 15m/min so that is good, but still not really say everything about the change, other than you swapped the drivers and the new ones are probably considerably more expensive than the old ones, but which were the old ones?

Yes, I am using 5mm screws and I am not sure you are right about me being far from the speed limit. Perhaps it is possible to drive them a bit faster, but 10m/min is a very good speed, no doubt about that.

https://youtu.be/m1zxi-BjIhc

Yes, in theory the speed limit is 35m/min for my Y screw (16mm dia, fixed one end 650mm apart, 5mm pitch, 7053rpm limit) but that is just the theory with an imaginary motor and no friction, no nut and a perfect screw, no eBay products, no vibration.

I have no doubt in my mind that digital driver is better than my old analogue driver is, but it is more a question of how much better and why than "it is better because I say so". ...and yes, I knew when I bought my DQ542MA drivers that they were copy of Leadshine drivers, so nothing new there.

There is also a difference in build quality. The machine in your video looks MUCH better build than most other machines I have seen, so of course, that is a huge advantage as well, but none the less, I KNOW that most eBay and DIY machines are not as fast as mine, even if I am not into the speed race and don't care much about bragging, but it is a fact that majority of DIY and eBay machines end up in the 4-5m/min maximum speed.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

Jazz, those two videos are not very informative.

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Perhaps you might be informed by the fact that he builds high quality CNC machines for commercial customers? ;-)

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Originally Posted by magicniner

Perhaps you might be informed by the fact that he builds high quality CNC machines for commercial customers? ;-)

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Yes I know. Nevertheless those two video didn't say anything and was not very informative.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

https://youtu.be/m1zxi-BjIhc

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A_Camera : Sorry - completely off-topic but I can't PM you - that video intrigues me - how have you terminated the braid on the CY cable? on your control box (I looks like a copper ferrule, in which case could you point me where you bought them? - or is it simply copper tape?) - If you can PM me to keep this thread from straying too far off topic?

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

That is not entirely right. While the DM542T is not the absolutely latest and greatest, it is actually a 2017 product and is in production (by Stepperonline), while the AM882 is obsolete, but still sold, and is advised NOT to be used in new products.

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That just shows how little you actually understand about the drives and the technology in them.
The DM542 is using technology that must now be well over 20 year old now, just like Gecko are still using in most of their stepper drives. The only real change to the designs has been to use modern components, but the basics of operation are still the same as 20 years ago. It's just smaller components are used.

AM drives, although officially obsolete within Europe (they were superseded by the EM series), are still an active product produced by Leadshine. They use far newer technology, and monitor how the motor is reacting to the voltage/current applied to it, which is how they implement anti-resonance, auto-tuning, and stall detection. DM/DQ drives do not have that technology in them, regardless of when they were made.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

Jazz, those two videos are not very informative. No data about what "Clive Analog" or AM882 digital is using for motors, power supply or anything. Also, in my opinion, milling air is pretty pointless, if you want to show speed you should run rapid passes, not milling imaginary material. Yes, you say it went from 8m/min to 15m/min so that is good, but still not really say everything about the change, other than you swapped the drivers and the new ones are probably considerably more expensive than the old ones, but which were the old ones?

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They where never intended to be informative but purely to show difference Digital drives made compared to Analog. The spec is irrelavant in this case because nothing changed other than Analog drives where swapped for Digital.
However there was little more to it than just that.?
The machine was Originally built as favor to help new forum member who had very very tight budget. It was actually mostly built by Clive S using my design and little help from me regards machining etc and with spare component's we had laying around left over from previous builds. However the member Hit hard times and pulled out leaving Clive S with the machine which I then took over and upgraded to pass on to a customer. Hence why the videos are in different locations. This was the end result See pic.

The Original control box used the parallel port (Mach3) because of budget and was also housed in MDF box to save money. Obviously I couldn't sell it like this and won't use PP on anything I sell so new Control box was built. This gave me the perfect opertunity to see what difference individual components made.

So Orginal spec was 35Khz PP thru cheap BOB with leadshine M752 Copies(400Ms) spinning 3.1Nm 4.2a steppers with aprox 55-60Vdc. 10mm pitch screws.
This setup actually struggled to reach much past 4700mm/min.
So the first change was to swap out the PP for Cslabs IP-M 100Khz controller. This allowed the same setup to reach just over 6000mm/min before the drives couldn't handle the resonance and went into melt down. Next change was to adjust the Micro steps with the intent to move the resonance around, 800ms gave best performance of little over 8000mm/min before stalling occured.

The next change was the Am882 with 1600Ms which instantly transformed the machine into an Animal. The Max Rapid velocity with 1000s/s Acceleration was actually well in excess of 20mtr.min but it ran stable at 15000mm/min and would cut at this if required in certain materials, it happily surfaced the bed at this speed. The Actual Velocity and accelration was dropped to sensible 10M/min with 1500s/s acceleration for the customer who was new user.

Hopefully this level of detail meets your approval.

Note on the letters DM.!!. . Just because some Chinese Ripoff shop sticks DM on the front doesn't make them the same DM drives sold by leadshine nor does it mean they have same technology in them.
Leadshine DM are lower range of Digital drives the D identifies this. There Analog drives just used M. ie: M542 or M752. You will see loads of cheap knock off drives with DM or DQ before numbers but most are Analog not digital.
The AM and EM series are more advanced Digital drive and the AM have been superceeded by EM series and are just now becoming harder to find but still about. The EM are current and to be honest having used many sets there is very little difference between them. EM are Slightly smoother at lower RPM's but other than that no difference. So much so I've even mixed AM and EM on same machine, my own, and see no difference when using.

Whether you want to accept it of not the real truth is that Digital drives like the AM or EM are massive improvements on analog drives which transfers directly to very respectable performance gains even on the most well built machine with huge improvements in some cases because of there advanced resonance handling when using motors that are not exactly best quality.

Attachment 24035

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

Yes, I am using 5mm screws and I am not sure you are right about me being far from the speed limit. Perhaps it is possible to drive them a bit faster, but 10m/min is a very good speed, no doubt about that.

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Yes for Analog drives I agree that's very good speed, mostly made possible by fact small machine and well made by your self. But just for the record my very first machine which used 5mm pitch screws would spin well above 10,000mm/min and that was with 1500mm length screws and Gecko Analog drives so your little machine still as lot left in it trust me.!

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

I KNOW that most eBay and DIY machines are not as fast as mine, even if I am not into the speed race and don't care much about bragging, but it is a fact that majority of DIY and eBay machines end up in the 4-5m/min maximum speed.

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Yes build quality makes big difference but your observations are not a good indicator because it could be just case that the machine is dumbed down lower and doesn't mean it couldn't go much faster if required.
I've built many machine which could easily be tuned to travel at twice the speed I supply the user with, hence above machine, but in truth most are frighted to Jog or travel at these speeds and rarely can they cut at these feeds because they cannot clear chips fast enough.

That's me done with this topic now but to all those looking for drives then stay away from Analog drives, Even the cheapest Digital drives are better than Analog and the price difference is nothing.

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Originally Posted by A_Camera

I am using UC300ETH and UCCNC. It works just as well with Mach3 but I like UCCNC more. I would definitely recommand either UC400ETH or UC300ETH. If you don't need more inputs than what is available on the UC400ETH and you have no need for extra ain/aout then the UC400ETH is an excellent choice. You don't NEED to get the UCCNC software, but at that price it is definitely worth to try. You can also just download the software without license, it will in that case run in demo mode, which includes everything except motion commands. That way you can try it out and see if you like it or not, but it isn't very expensive, so it is worth to get a license because that would definitely show the advantages of it over Mach3, which is considerably more expensive than UCCNC. Also, UCCNC is actively maintained and developed, Mach3 is dead.

If you want new drivers, I'd advice you to get DQ542MA drivers. Those are very good and reliable. You can buy the drivers from some eBay seller and will not pay any tax if you select delivery from Germany or UK or other EU countries. UCCNC and the UCx00ETH motion controllers can be bought directly form Hungary, so it is also from EU.

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Alright, when it's talking about all the inputs it's talking about signals being generated going into the controller ie) limit switches, e-stop etc. Is this incorrect? Just because I don't really have a good understanding of the input capabilities, what should I be expecting in comparing the uc300eth, and the uc400eth. I see the uc300eth 5lpt has 36 outputs, 49 inputs, and the uc400eth doesn't.

Rephrase I don't know much about inputs, I personally don't think there's a need for so many. Therefore I'd probably go for the uc400eth but can someone maybe list off some other inputs (other than the 2 examples I mentioned) that people use?

Thanks
-Justin

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Limit Switches
Home Switches
Probes
Pushbuttons
Sensors
E Stop
MPG
Pendants
Encoders

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Originally Posted by Ger21

Limit Switches
Home Switches
Probes
Pushbuttons
Sensors
E Stop
MPG
Pendants
Encoders

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Let me expand this a little for you with rough some numbers. Many of these options you won't require but will be found on many CNC routers.
You'll also be surprised as you go along how many things you might like to add to the machine which require I/O and if you havent got them to start with it can be expensive or difficult adding them later. The little extra cost could be worth it long term.

INPUTS:
Home Switches = 4 (4 axis independant homing )
Limit Switches = 4 ( Independant axis sensing can be series wired to share 1 IN )
Probes = 1
Pushbuttons = 1 for each button required. ie: Feed hold, Cycle start, Step mode, Spindle on/off, Vac On/off, Coolant on/off, Air On/off
Sensors = 1 for each sensor. ie: ATC could easily use 6-12+ I/O dependant on style.
Rpm Sensor = 1
E Stop = 1
Servo Ready = 1
Servo fault = 1
Servo motor Stopped =1
Servo brake on/off = 1
MPG = 4 per axis for Simple hand wheel encoder plus 1 IN per function ie: Jog Mode, Step selection, E-stop
Encoders = 4 per axis (6 with Index)

Outputs:
Spindle on/off = 1
Spindle RPM = 1
Tool release = 1 (ATC)
ATC = 1 per action ie: Arm in/out, Arm up/down, Rotate, Clamp/release etc
Servo On/0ff = 1
Servo brake release = 1
Servo Reset = 1
Coolant on/off = 1
Vac on/off =1
Air on/off = 1
Pop up pins = 1
Dust hood retract = 1
Signal lights = 1 per Light ie: E-stop, Cycle start led, feed hold, Jog Mode etc