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Hello!
How wide is the epoxy supposed to be?
Do you know that the sides tend to get raised, usually called meniscus?
I don't know if having the sides angled like that will lessen or make the meniscus worse..
Maybe you know something that we others don't and your solution solves the problem?
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Hi Nr1madman....Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
More knowledge? No.
The witdh of the profile is about 80 mm.
The witdh at 5 mm epoxy thickness should be about 70mm, plenty of room for some meniscus and enough flat surface left for mounting the rail.
I want to see what te result will be on the bottom of the gantry x mounting surface.
I might decide i want the wide type carriages on x because there is space enough for them there.. miniscus might become a problem there..
Any thoughts?
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I'm sure you are right about having enough room left. Just concerned that the inwards angled sides will create larger miniscus. It might work the other way also :D
I have been known to be wrong! ;)
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Nr1madman.. Ha yes about being wrong... been there done that[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
I think you might be right about minicus getting worse when walls lean inward...
Will report on this...
I can still change stuff...
you know what i will.
On the x carriage mounting surface.. this is the spot where extra room is needed...
Grtz..
Bert
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If the meniscus should interfere with wide bearings then it's very easy to file the meniscus down. Im just worried that there will be much waste as the epoxy is quite expensive :DQuote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
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yes its expensive... some 75 euros for +/- 3kg.. its cheapest i could find with good properties and tropical hardner...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
need to put a heater in the shop because of this now [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]
grtz Bert
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Ok 1st pouring round.
I prepped 0.5 kg of epoxy.
Mix is 135 vs 365 expoy.
And yes.. in the first round i found out epoxy leaks through everywhere. [emoji16]
Goodthing.. acryl kit can stop epoxy leaks .
I made good use of the leaked epoxy by coating all surfaces of the next round... with a bit of luck i will have no problems there...
The 2nd round will be some 2.0 kg.
last round 0.4 kg.
I have made a decision on the Linear parts bom list today... i will order wide carriages for the x axis.
Fred: i will be ordering soon :-)
Hope to have the parts this year.
Lots of new things to think about!
Do you guys have any clue for how long i need to keep the temperature @20+ C for curing epoxy evenly?
Maybe 4 days or so?
Grtz
Bert.
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Hmm do you think doing a small pour last will help making it level? I think bigger mass in the pour may help make it flow even.. I would do the 2kg pour last ;)
But you might be right, just an observation!
The curing time will depend on the epoxy used and thickness of the pour.. I was scared so I waited 10 days haha
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Well actually... i just poured the x- rail mounting sufaces 2x 320mmx80mm x5mm + the connecting bridge 1000mmx40mmx5mmQuote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Total about 0.5 liters ~ 0.5kg
I have just checked.. temperature is steady at 22 deg C. Epoxy is only just starting to get solid... it is just getting real sticky now. 16hrs after pour.
The leaking epoxy was used the coat the kit seams for the big pour: bottom rail Y surface+ 2x rail x surface and bridge.
i used a small paintbrush to soak the seams and connections
about 5mx80mmx5mm of channel to fill and a 1mx40x5mm to fill.
The flow thickness of epoxy when you just start the pour is about 3 or 4 mm thick.
So yes i agree pour the whole thickness in 1 go.
I have a good feeling about keeping the temperature steady.
In the test pour there was orange skin like surface finish... no sign of that , well not jet.
The big pour i did today : shiny surfaces.
I mixed 1kg first.. then another 0.5kg.
looks like after allowing the epoxy to flow for a few hours i can see the frame straightness is good to within 2mm
Epoxy film thickness varies from +/- 6 to 4 mm
... some leaks not to bad... easy fix.
Now i need to wait a week before i can flip the gantry, clean up, and pour the last surface top y axis rail mounting surface.
Grtz.
Bert.
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Nice to see that epoxy level goes well,carry on!
Nice :D
Really looking forwards to seeing your results with leaning sides..
Surface looks good right now!
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oh wow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Just removed the sides.. the suggestion i read on this forum (Joe H[emoji106]) using a simple packing tape on the sides worked out great. Easy removal of siding and great finish.
Lessons learned:
-My type of epoxy was not delamination proof under 5mm thickness.
Any thickness over 5mm would chip instead of easy peal off.
- Use taped sides, simple packing tape will prevent epoxy binding to sides and will give you great finsh.
- use small kit seam for leak proofing on inside of the sides to steal beam.
- used rich kit seam on the outside.
- use low height sides (20mm above steel is ok) for easy kit application.
- Use extra bracing in tipical H setup bridge.
- check for obvious leaks[emoji4] before pouring.
- acryl kit can stop epoxy leaks on the outside of the siding.
- coat all kit seams with epoxy with a brush to seal up any leaks days before a pour.
- Inward leaning sides have meniscus too.
- not much worse but worse. maybe 7mm instead of 5mm
- Having stable temperature does positively influence surface finish.
ok i have to clean up sides of x axis remove meniscus then i can flip gantry and do the last pour.
Guys, thanx for all the great info accumulated on this forum. I could never have figured out all this stuff by my self.
Grtz..
Bert.
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Good work :D
Thanks for the reporting, many points made that can help others!
Im a bit envious about the side finish.. packingtape seems like the way to go;)
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Dont envy me. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
I only showed the best of the results.
I will finish clean up and do some more pictures later.
All in all i am happy with the results.
MK II will be a hole in one [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]
the acrylkit solution has a downside.
It weakens +/- 3 mm of the sides..
Ill draw up something to explain.
So when i want just epoxy on the sides i need to scrape some 3mm off.
this eliminated meniscus in the process.
And the nice and easy side finish is gone.
Use least possible kit seam.
On the pouring side of the siding that is.
Use rich kit seams on the outside.
Ok both my x axis are 1850mm long, the epoxy varies in thickness from 7mm one end, to 3 mm half way , other end 6mm
Equals 3.5 mm of warp by welding only.
I did not expect that.
1mm out of level by spirit level over 1850mm.. equals 0.5mm / meter error in spirit level... right on spec for expected spirit levelling accuracy.
ok.. looks like i have about 1830mm of flat surface for rail.. need to update BOM list spec for Fred.
Did any of you cut linear rail by angle grinder?
Grtz Bert.
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I cut down one rail about 20mm.. read first to use a thin cut disc and I didn't have any thin discs at home so I used a dremel kind of tool with 50x1mm disc. Went well :)
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last pour,Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Ok lets try to get it perfect this time.
Bert.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c9e4bfcbb9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b6577cede1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6167d46ad4.jpg
Update...
last pour is done... in 48 hrs the side come off...
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Last pour resultsQuote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0aaae16859.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a19940bf33.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...570ae4a6ed.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6c0b18ad2d.jpg
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Looks good ;)
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Yes super happy with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr1madman
Need to do some mesurements to check for obvious F ups ...
Only have some old analogue calipers ...
Need to start buying some quality measurement tools help with aligning the rails.
And i am hoping piano wire can help with aligning...
I have some quality 140cm 8040 profile that can be used with straightening stuff.
Bouyan said one needs a 1000mm straight edge and machinist squares..
He is right i think...
Need to start figuring this out.
So...
I am about to order linear bearing parts.
Final BOM :
Rail**
2pcs*HIWIN*HGR20-L1830mm*Linear*rail
2pcs*HIWIN*HGR20-L1000mm*Linear*rail
2pcs*HIWIN*HGR20-L500mm*Linear*rail
8pcs*HIWIN*HGH20CA*Linear*carriage
4pcs*HIWIN*HGW20CC*Linear*carriage
Ballscrews*rolled*C7.
End*machining*fixed*float*for*a*pulley's
1set*C7*RM1605-L350mm*Ball*screw*with*ballnut
Change*Length*F*to*30mm*
1set*C7*RM1610-L1150mm*Ball*screw*with*ballnut
Change*Length*F*to*30mm*
2*sets*C7*RM2010-L1700mm*Ball*screw*with*ballnut
Change*Length*F*to*30mm*
2pcs*1610*Ballnut*Housing
2pcs*2010*Ballnut*Housing
4pcs ballnut grease nipples
2*sets*superior type*bk*bf12*1610
2sets*superior type*bk*bf15*2010
Any thoughts?
Grtz. Bert
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You are planning well ;)
As you have read the straight edge will simplify your life and keep your hair from being grey :D
I did it the sloppy way!
Read about someone who placed the linear rails beside each other and checked for gaps.. if there are none you can flip one and if they still are without gaps they are straight..
I was lucky and had two straight rails that I could align the first long rail with. Could not get a feeling blade inserted anywere on the whole length of the rail.
For the matching rail I mounted the gantry and slid back and forwards, drilling and tapping one hole at a time as close to the gantry as possible.
For the gantry rails I took a steel ruler that I checked against my master straight rail..
Straight edge and square is better I think ;)
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The epoxy pour looks really good!
Well... need to say...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
Disaster
Something went wrong ....
There was a tiny leak.
It leaked on the surface of Xaxis... it sucked inbetween the gantry and bed...
I did make preparations to prevent this.
I sprayed wd40 inbetween before pouring.
So nothing could stick.. worked only partially.
I needed a hammer an chisel to separate the gantry from the bed.
1 side of the x bed surface delaminated from the steel ....destroyed .
So deep breath ... cleanup and do it once more...
Grtz Bert.
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I am sorry to hear about that.
Bom ordered BST Fred.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Anyone with experience from NL here?
I am curious about how this will work with dutch customs..
I understand carrier will report to tax administration..
My estimation is about 27% extra cost.
21 vat 5 import and some minor handling cost.
Guess i will pay tax and handling cost to carrier..
Grtz. Bert
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So... guess what the post man brought today.Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
Goodies from china.[emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]
Guys, thanks for recommanding Fred from BST.
Everithing looks good and well packed.
Some heavy cardboard box reinforced with multiplex all wrapped in plastic foil.
2nd attempt at pouring epoxy is underway.
Tomorrow ill visit the local tool station to go and get m5 machine taps and some nico 4.2 drills.
Also.... need to source some Alu tooling plate. for gantry.
And have some 20mm mdf cut for test fit.
Its gonna be busy holidays.
Grtz. Bert.
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Nice goodies Driftspin!
It seems that Christmas came early ;-),Merry Christmas !
Quote:
Originally Posted by driftspin
What did you end up paying to your door if you don’t mind me asking?
Well i am not sure yet.. fedex delivered... i paid Fred... But i have not been taxed yet..Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieuk
I guess it will be in the +/- 1300.- euro range.
I understand sometimes you pay tax in the country where goods enter EU.
That would be belgium..
Grtz. Bert.
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I ended up paying 1200,- euros..Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieuk
Fedex charged 10+10 euros costs +
i Payed about 31% import tax / vat on 480 usd shipped value based on attatched dispatch note.
Grtz Bert.
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Top Z carriage position.
Hi guys..
I am doing 15mm plywood test fit for all Z axis alu plates before ordering.
Where did you mount your top carriage?
High or low? And why?
Grtz Berthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5137a17ccf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...efeae50905.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5b50ab8a05.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7a050ef548.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...04eb5b64ab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...90effdad62.jpg
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I placed mine as high as I could to get stability but as low as possible to get the travel distans I wanted :)
The further apart you have them creates less leverage on the bearings, more even load..
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Hi All,
I would like your opinions on the following.
Since my Y axis ballscrew is at the rear off the gantry, i have to make a choice.
Have the fixed end of the cable chain and ball screw inside the z-axis assembly or out side.
Like this or that:
Attachment 23665Attachment 23666
The chain would rest on top the gantry with a simple L support screwed to the back of the gantry to allow for a chain wide enough.
Moving end of chain would connect to the top z assembly plate near the nema
I feel keeping the box that surrounds gantry as small as possible, is best for rigidity.
On the other hand i would not have to make a separate floating support system for the cable chain.
Adding more weight and vibration.
Also i think having it on inside would look much better.
Grtz Bert.
Hi Bert,
Personally structural integrity wins over cable routing every time. So I would go with the image on the left with the closer ballscrew connection. Then make the neatest job of mounting the cable chain on the back. Wouldn't worry about weight and vibration of the extra support bracket holding the cable chain.
Make all drag chains Horizontal, not Vertical. And use bigger that you think what will work.
Hi guys,
I have found a supplier for 7075 rolled sheet.
Will rolled 7075 be flat enough for z assembly plates.
I do have an automotive cilinderhead grinder option if it pans out to be unflat.
Or would ground 5083 be the better choice..
In a small volume and suppliers compared not much price difference..
I am really drawn to the 7075 for the obvious reasons [emoji16]
Grtz Bert
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Finally progress, found a good source for 7075 milled both sides, so ordered z plates...
Need to decide on steppers now and htd pully and belts size.
Grtz Bert.
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Parts for z axis arrived today.
Looks like i have stuff to do this weekend :-)
Grtz Bert.
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Hi guys,
I have question.
I ordered c7 ballscrews from Fred with the higher spec bf bk bearings.
There are spacer rings included. those are smaller then expected. id the ring is ok, od is smaller then the dust seals of the bearing block... by about 2 mm.
Do i need seals on the angular bearings?
If so... i will contact Fred for new rings.
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No worries , you are fine!
I have the manual for those bearings but it seems that I can not attach it here, if you want it send me your email with pm.
These are the fixed end bearings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickhofen
Took the lid of..
7002 atyn df p5 -5/-5 germany x cy-0780
Opinions?
Grtz. Berthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...88860868e0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...096e7e6946.jpg
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