Redone the Z front plate. Anyone help with cutting this? I'll pay of course!
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Redone the Z front plate. Anyone help with cutting this? I'll pay of course!
Just a heads up.
Strike CNC are trying to use strong arm tactics to silence any nay saying of their products.
Yep I've been threatened with legal action for slander, blackmail and loss of earning because of the content of this thread.
Here's a list of problems so far:
- Gantry back constructed out of 6 sections of 30x30mm extrusion loosely coupled together and each only captured in the gantry uprights by a single bolt at each end. Result was a large amount of slop in the Z-axis and therefore cutting accuracy.
- All ballscrews only captured by relying on bearings preventing movement of the ballscrew. This is inadequate build quality giving rise to allowing 'backlash' from said movement. Proper mounting methods is genuine ballscrew supports which use a nut on the threaded portion of the ballscrew to capture.
- Advertised speeds were misleading at time of purchase. I was advised I'd get rapids of at least 5m/min when in reality this was 3m/min to run reliably and without stalling.
- Electrical wiring substandard and has not been installed by a certified electrician nor does it meet the required safety standards by British law on a commercially sold machine. One example is broken wire insulation exposing live cable which could potentially come into contact with the chassis. No grounding on the chassis either. If I bought something like that from Currys, I wouldn't have shown the patience I have with Strike.
- Various loose bolts, a few missing bolts and inaccurately machine parts. When you buy something for approx £4500 you expect better.
- Replacement parts supposed to address most of the previous issues failed to do so and only introduced more problems. So far I've had to replace the Z axis front plate with a new part because the previous's mounting method for the supported rails meant it was impossible to adequately tighten due to recessed nuts. A big oversight for such a critical component. Also having to replace the Y axis ballscrew as its bent and causes severe vibration of the machine.
You might be wondering why on earth haven't I done something about all this before now? Well I'm a nice guy and only want what I paid for. I've been incredibly patient with Strike and gone out of my way to help them help me. I've Travelled 300 miles to and from Chesterfield to Micheldean not once but twice to courier parts around. Also for the past few months I've been playing the role of repair guy because they offer little support outside of "Send it back at your cost, we'll fix it and then bill you for delivery". Well to send the machine back would cost £300 each way as its a 500kg nearly 2m cubed lump. You read the fine print when buying and this is stated so I wasn't surprised but when it comes from incompetence and care building your machine then it does become a very annoying issue. Its other things too like the fact they had a month to make replacement parts and once done I arranged to collect on a set date and was told they were tested and ready. I arrived on the agreed date and time only to find they hadn't tested and problems were ensuing that meant I had to sit in the car for 5 hours outside their premises waiting. Stuff like that shouldn't happen and was the last thing I wanted after a 150 mile drive there whilst facing the same to get back home.
As for blackmail, I really have no idea where this has come from. Its nothing more than an excuse to try and stop me coming to the forums to ask for help resolving the problems. They're claiming I've blackmailed them into giving me parts like the supported rails on the Z, hiwin rail Y axis, proper ballscrew supports and increased voltage PSU in return for my silence on here. Rubbish. I told them exactly what I wanted and that was my problems gone and for them to supply the machine spec'd to the speeds and accuracies stated by them when ordered. In light of the issues they offered those upgrades as they felt it would be the best course of action to remedy the problem and so I never asked/demanded anything more than a fix for the problems. Had they done that to a satisfactory standard I'd have been a happy customer. However I've made it quite clear to them all along that I'm no fool either and despite being appreciative of 'upgrades' if they failed to fix the problems(they have) I'll take my problems online and try to resolve my issues. That's where I am right now and at this point I have no faith in Strike CNC, I don't want them involved in fixing the machine any longer because that's my prerogative and its supported by a string of failures from Strike CNC which every time cost me money/time.
I don't for a minute believe I've blackmailed them into anything and its incredibly unprofessional for them to blantantly lie in order to give themselves the appearance of a legal high ground. Ironic really because I should be the one sueing them. I've got projects on the go totalling a considerable amount of money and the whole purpose of the buying the machine was to speed up manufacturing and increase product quality. Its not cut a single thing yet and I ordered December 12th 2011.
I don't take kindly to their tactics. Its highly unprofessional of a company.
A big thanks to Dean for coming around yesterday and helping out with assistance and several new parts.
The Z axis is now working nicely and the Leadshine drives make a huge difference compared to the old ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjN3C...=youtube_gdata
Good news about the Z! video looks very smooth. Thanks for posting the update, a shame its gone that way.
I can't believe it's still on going
I feel so very sorry for you but know your in good hands with Jazz
James
I looked at the ready made routers on sale before i started making my own and came to the quick conclusion that making my own was the only way to get any standard of build quality. The one thing i found was nearly all the routers had the same design faults that would make there use to the specs they advertised unlikely , mainly with unsupported Z axis rail .
When i saw this thread and the replies from Strike CNC ( at the start ! ) i hoped that the supplier would take the criticism on board and use it and the forum to make a better machine that the forum could promote over the other crap out there. Its a shame that Strike are just like the many other suppliers looking to make a big profit at the expense of good solid design. Which comes as a big surprise as didn't he say they had carried out exhaustive testing of their machines ?
And yep that gantry made of 30x30 extrusion on a £4500 router was just plain embarrassing , how on earth anyone would think that would work is just beyond me ! .... i mean come on ! ... explain how that would work better or as good as a single piece of extrusion or / even plate ?.
I would love to put it through Solidworks stress analysis , i think the program would piss its self laughing at me ! , shame i don't know how too would enjoy the laugh .
L8r
This was exactly my hope after speaking with them. Instead it feels like the only thing they did was offer a bunch of upgrades to smooth things over. Well no one cares about upgrades, all they want is something that works as advertised!Quote:
Originally Posted by Buba b
Glad your having fun building your own buba.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buba b
Ha ha know you are having a laugh.!! Pretty sure solid works wouldn't have any stress analysis that go low enough. .:thumbdown:
To be honest Ant is being far too lenient with his description about the level of build quality. The lack of engineering care and build quality goes beyond inept to the point of down right dangerous regards the electrics.
If this machine had been electrically tested or inspected to comply with BS EN 60204-1:2006 + Amendment1:2009 for working machinery or any of the HSE BS EN codes relating to machinery safety it would have had the plug cut-off and a big sticker saying "Condemned".
If the HSE got involved someone would be in for a hefty fine or heaven for bid worse case someone got injured or electrocuted then a free holiday at HMP would be given I'm sure.!
If an engineering test to determine "Fit for purpose" then it would have a BIG fail sticker along with a hefty list of fail points.!!
I'm in business and know fully how difficult times are out there so I take no pleasure in seeing or reporting things like this.!
When I first saw this machine I can honestly say it turned my stomach having to tell a nice guy like Ant all the issue's I was seeing.! To be honest I only went to help tune the motors etc but came away feeling like the grim reaper.:sorrow:
How any company could in all seriousness turn something like this out and not expect bad feed back is beyond me.! And how they can complain when they are given a second chance get out of jail free card and still messup then use bully threatening tactics when the truth is told or shown is just out right shameful. . :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
many people do not understand the power of the forums and Internet.
At one time it was go see a lawyer, pay a hat full of money and hope the legal system would do the right thing for you. 'fraid that has all changed.
Now no one is perfect, everybody drops a bollock from time to time. What matters is not that you dropped the bollock but how you treat the customer and what you do to rectify the problem to both of yours satisfaction.
I have seen this machine and in all fairness a lot of what was wrong with it had been done at this point but there was still some issues with the twin leadscrews and the Z axis. One thing and I don't know if Ant posted a picture but the front section of the alloy extrusion had been drilled away with a big rotary saw for clearance for the bearing blocks.
Only problem was none of the holes were anywhere near where the screws wanted to go. Massive rat holes carved into new alloy extrusion, disgraceful on a new machine.
Couldn't agree more. I think Ant started this thread to pass on what he believed to be a good deal with a UK company, because he was chuffed with his new baby even before it was born!Quote:
Originally Posted by John S
This could have been very positive for the builders of this machine, but sadly turned out otherwise... for all concerned.
Don't forget the bit about me loosing over 3 stone since I bought this, oh and I should have been getting married next month but that's off now lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZZCNC
You think I'm joking. I'm not!
Meh it'll be a funny story to tell the grand kids one day.
Oh ye and Ant was a Fat bastard like me but now he's Sleek mean shagging machine who'll realise one day just what a lucky escape he had from the ball & chain.!! . . . He's still Ugly thou. .:playful:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobiwan
Well the good thing is I don't have to hide the receipts down the back of the sofa anymore. In fact the only real down side is all the wear and tear on my joints - I'm gonna need a wrist replacement by the time I'm 50! lol
I was going to throw an insult back at you for the ugly joke but I just realised I still need some parts/help so I'll wait till afterwards :playful:
So sorry to hear of your cnc troubles. I too had a few teething problems with a machine bought from a so called reputable company(no names) a while ago, after all the mods I did to it and basically rebuilding it from scratch, I figured I could do a much better build myself! Maybe you would have been better off having a go at one yourself? As the old saying goes, if you want something doing right......it will definitely work out well with Jazz at the helm now though :)
A quick question.
What microstepping should I be using on each axis (default is 8 which I assume is 1/8th) and also the steps per setting within mach.
Ballscrews are X = RM2005, Y = RM1610 and Z = RM1205
Common microstepping practice is 8.
Steps per unit, you need to calculate using whatever units you're using (normally MM or Inch), pitch of ballscrew, number of steps per motor revolution, and drive ratio between screw and motor.
For 5mm screw, using MM, a standard 200 step stepper motor, and direct drive, to move 1mm, you need to rotate the motor 1/5th of turn to move 1mm.
So 1/5th of 200 is 40 motor steps.
Now to move 40 motor steps using 8 microstepping, is 40x8=320 steps per unit.
For 10mm pitch screw, you can simply half the above to give 160 steps per unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_c
Or, switch that axis to 16 microsteps and have 'em all the same.
Every time you increase microsteps you loose torque.
There is no advantage in going above 8 and you only have to do the setup once.
Cheers for that.
I seem to be at a brick wall with the parallel port and motor speeds. The port will handle upto 35Khz, anymore and the PC starts to play up. This limits me to rapids of about 6m/min with 8x microstepping on the 5mm pitch screws. Its not really a big deal as the machine wouldn't handle cutting at those speeds anyway. Might have to consider a smoothstepper or perhaps lower the microstepping to 4x on the drivers. Is that's a good move or should I just be happy with what I've got?
Another quick question.
I bought one of these for the spindle http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3000-LITRE...ht_2067wt_1064
Now the only problem is finding adaptors to allowing fitting 4mm ID tubing the Chinese spindles use. I know your probably going to say google is your friend but I've been 'looking' for awhile now and still no luck.
I'm wiring up the spindle and have another question.
There's 3 wires for the 3phase power along with a ground. Can I identify which pins are the correct one's for the power and which is the ground? I notice the GX16 connector that these spindles use have their pins marked 1-4. I assume 1-3 are power and 4 is ground?
Ant Think you'll find the 4th hisn't connected to anything.? Just test with circuit tester and you'll get no readings from that pin when connected either to any of the other pins or body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobiwan
Its not connected? Seems a bit silly. I was going to ground the spindle with that and also use it to complete the circuit for the tool height probe too. How did you ground yours?
Mine hisn't grounded and it doesn't need to be.! The VFD takes care of the EARTH side just make sure the VFD is EARTHED and it will be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobiwan
You could if you wanted belt and braces safety introduce a EARTH wire direct to the EARTH point in the control box but this is very different to DC ground the I/O's use.?
If the spindle shorts internally the VFD will trip so power will be cut and 99% of time this is fine.!! But if for some unlucky reason it didn't then the earth would leak back to the PCB trip so it does make it slightly safer.! . . . BUT. . .It can also work against you in some case, esp with a VFD, by using the long wire has an antena sending out electrical noise.?
Dont confuse the AC earthing to DC grounding that the I/O pins use.? Yes effectively they both end up at the same place but they are done very differently.
When your probing your complelting the DC circuit from the PP I/O pins which is low voltage low amps. If the machine frame is EARTHED and the spindle hisn't isolated thru bearings etc then often the circuit will complete because like I say the ultimately end back up at the same place EARTH.! . . Often and I'm 99% sure will be the case for you the spindle will return to Earth and allow the DC input circuit to complete.! . . . Again if you want belt n braces approach or for some reason the spindle is isolated then use a wire DIRECT from the DC negative pin of the BOB input NOT the EARTH of the control box and agian to avoid noise issues just use a temporey crocodile cliptype affair.! (BUT I'm 99.9 sure you won't need too)
EDIT: Do recommend you run a short as possible EARTH wire from star point in control box to the machine frame just in case of AC short of any kind. This will also more than likely be enough to allow the negative side of the DC input a path back to complete circuit.
I bought a strike CNC balls up this year, it too was a month+ late and had all the above faults and more. It was supposed to have traverse speeds of 6m/min+ but Michael Powel advised that 6 would be best, to date I can only run at 2m/min. I went through the control cabinet and reconnected all the wires as they had been stripped too far and were also all loose one fell out of the emergency stop switch.
Is Strike still going or have they gone bust as they are'nt answering any cals or emails?
Sorry to hear of that Jim. Its a horrible feeling isn't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimg100
I assume Strike CNC are still active because I had an email from them saying they were taking legal action against me for the contents of this thread.
My advice is to do what I did and contact Trading Standards giving them a full and detailed report of situation your in and the faults with the machine. If you believe it was dangerous tell them that too and why. Even better if you have photographs.
Here's the details for trading standards and citizens advice along with the telephone number for both. You might be better off finding your local trading standards office and calling them, I did this.
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/index.cfm
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/
08454 04 05 06
Good luck and keep us updated.
If he does take legal action it will be good as it will be at his cost and if we stand together there is no way he can win, we may even get some money back or our machines sorted.I am just putting my X axis back with new SKF bearings as the 4 supplied gave up the ghost.
I have kept all my emails from him and have taken pictures of all the poor machining including the mods I have had to do to achieve a 150mm Z axis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobiwan
When the machine first arrived Strike helped me over the phone to setup and part of that involved changing some DIP switches on the drivers.
Here's what I found in the control box on closer inspection.
- 230v wires exposed out of the estop
- 230v live wire sheathing damage potentially allowing for contact with the chassis
- No chassis ground so if the above happened your going to get electrocuted
- DC Wiring colour coding reversed in places and then in others its as you'd expect.
I've attached images of these and informed Strike back in February when they came. The issue was side stepped and I took it upon myself to completely strip out the electronics and re-wire to a safe standard.
Jimg100. Is this the sort of thing you saw on your machine?
Regulations in the UK on estops state they must be 48 volts max,
Almost exactly the same all the wires going into those green plugs had been stripped to far and so there was approximately 6mm of bare copper with odd strands that were not clamped and so a possible short and several wire were not clamped tightly enough and I pulled them out easily.
Is it ok to put my phone number on here as I would rather talk on the phone?
After my rewire its now 24v and wired to a relay which cuts 230v to the drivers and in turn to the estop input for BOB/Mach. But yes Strike had put it inline with the 230v supply to cut power.Quote:
Originally Posted by John S
You can PM me your number as I wouldn't recommend posting a phone number on a public forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimg100
Or I can give you mine if that's easier.
Ah ah John the only Regs this shower know about is Reg fries from Mcdonalds. . :whistle:Quote:
Originally Posted by John S
Oh dear., It just gets worse.
No bruce it just begin's.!! . . . Wait untill all the others start coming out the closet.!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by motoxy
Homing switches now configured and working. Only the Z axis functional at the moment but I'm happy with the result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66AaJS79crc&feature=plcp
Here's a CAD knockup along with a few minor improvements and new Z axis.
Ballscrew for the Y to replace the bent one arrived from China. Impressed with the service and price from Chai. A little over £70 for a 1.4m long 1610 with the ballnut.
Hi Ant
Nice CAD models what software are you using?
I was thinking that, his pics look better than my extrusion that's sitting on the bench!! I bet it isn't cheap tho! (If it turns out to be sketchup then I'll eat a mcdonalds!)Quote:
Originally Posted by audioandy
Cheers guys. Its solidworks for CAD and then Keyshot 2.3 for the renders.
KeyShot - 3D Rendering and Animation software
These are pretty rough as things go. Done just to give me an overview of the machine really and make sure it fits together as expected. If you put the time in you can get some realistic rendering but its a lot of faffing adding small details in CAD and then playing with lighting and materials within Keyshot. Depends what your looking to achieve really.
Here's one that's had a bit more time spent on it.