Stell frame cnc 1500X1000. Adjustable table your opinion please

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

But didn't yours Sink Eddy.? . . . . No point being cheap if it's going to compress.!

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Only because I didn't let it cure long enough before tightening it down. I've obviously checked it all again since and It's not moved one bit. If I build another machine I would be using the same stuff again.
silyavski, it was not nearly as bad as you are making out, remember it was others who said it was a 'disaster' not me.

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Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

Only because I didn't let it cure long enough before tightening it down. I've obviously checked it all again since and It's not moved one bit. If I build another machine I would be using the same stuff again.
silyavski, it was not nearly as bad as you are making out, remember it was others who said it was a 'disaster' not me.

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Could you do the 10g-20g mixture test if you have anything left? To see what happens?

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Originally Posted by silyavski

Could you do the 10g-20g mixture test if you have anything left? To see what happens?

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How should the test be done ? what are we looking for ?

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Originally Posted by EddyCurrent

How should the test be done ? what are we looking for ?

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Just mix a very small amount, 20g in total and see if it hardens well. Should use a precision scale though. The idea is that the epoxies if don't behave well in very small quantities but behave well when mixed half kg for example, are poor quality.

Thank for your answers.
Syliavski also thanks for your intention to help
I will search a little more and if i didnt find anything i will let you know.
My last search bring me up to this company. Have a look at the page that discribes its products

http://www.5m.cz/en/epoxy-resins/

PR 220 (resin) with EM316 (hardener ) has 120-150 minutes pot life
PR 220 (resin) with EM317 (hardener ) has 200-250 minutes pot life !!!! but not curing at room temperature

Here in Greece they import only 315 hardener to be combined with PR220 resin. This hardener suppose to be the fast, but it has pot life 50-60 minutes 200 gr at 25C ( when west system 105+209 has 40-50 minutes 100gr at 22 C). When i ask about the price ( here in Greece ) they told me 22 euros+vat but am not sure if they are talking about the PR220 or PR102 resin. Have a look.

Hi everybody
Long time has passed since my last post
It is because after summer holidays, schools starts and (as I am a school teacher-computer science) I had too much work.
Last night I decide to restart by installing the hiwin profiled rails
I start with X axis in order to install the master rail. I measure, I mark the holes and then drill with 4mm first and then with 4.2mm in order to tap the m5 bolts.
Then I bolt two carriages on a steel plate st39 ( not perfectly milled yet ) and then I put the carriages on the rail. The movement isn’t very easy. As I put pressure on the plate, the movement become easier ( as cause of preload overcoming). I didn’t lubricate the rail or the carriage for this first test.
I didn’t epoxy level the 80X80 beams (where the rails rest) as when I test them against straight edge I didn’t notice more than 0,15mm gap, so I will go on with shimming.
My questions are

1. Do I have to lubricate the carriages for these first test travels
2. What will be the normal pressure for moving the carriages
3. As I apply force in order to overcome the preload forces I hear a sound from the carriages (krrrrrrrr ) is this normal?

Later I will come with photos and videos to show how the carriages move.

Thanks for your time

Vagelis

0.15mm is a pretty huge misalignment for these sorts of rails. The datasheets specify something in the order of micrometers.

1. I would, since if you're having trouble aligning them then you're potentially putting big forces on them, so lubrication might help prevent damage.
2. About the same as before the rail is mounted. When a flanged carriage is bolted down to a flat surface, the carraige is often designed to distort and apply slightly more preload, so you may notice an increase in friction. However if you leave the carraiges off what they mount on for now, there should be no more friction with the rail bolted down. If there is then your rail is seriously bent.
3. No ... sounds like the rail, or something, is bent a lot.

Hi Vagelis,

You will do it right, just don't be in a hurry. It's a precision work.

Use oil not WD40!!!

RTFM!! Download and read the Hiwin Manual. Where the say about the WD40 by the wayNot oiled makes noise but moves freely
I told you need straight edge. Spend 60 eur and buy at least the 1meter one. It would easily show your real misalignment spots.
Don't push anything directly, I mean the bearing blocks. Work around them so everything is straight and so that screws are in the middle of the hole. Where necessary to widen holes.

Jonathan and Syliavski thanks for your comments.
Syliavski i have already bought 1200mm straight edge
I think that first i have to perfectly mill the plates where the carriages are bolted
Using the straight edge i must then shim the rails to be perfectly flat
Another two question
1. I read the hiwin maual and it says ( for carriages lubrcation ) to use lithium soap base grease. Is tha a MUST or i could use oil ( and what oil ) instead of grease.
2. Do we also lubricate the rails or only the carriages?

Thenks for your participation

Hi Vagelis ,
I am happy you are on board again
I do not think you have big preload -Z1?
Fist I think krrr is not critical , lubricant will help to reach prrrrr.:)
I only have an use bearing at home so I am waiting the sound result.
The pushing force is a good feedback I suppose
Regards
István

It is very possible to go on with epoxy finally as I measure gap (beam against straight edge ) nearly 0,25mm and shimming seams to be very difficult for me.

As i had told here in Greece they import 105 west system epoxy but they don’t import 209 hardener but only 206. So i will make some experiment with other epoxies much more cheaper ( 25 euros / 1,2 kgr). Ebay supplier asks 90pounds for 1.2 kgr 105-209 system.


The problem is that the temperature in my work place is now 16-17 celsious and it is dropping more as Decemper comes. So if i want to apply the epoxy method i will have to make a place with controlled heating system in order to keep the temperature as low as 20-21 celsious.
Second solution will be to go on with shimming and third ( the most expensive ) to ask a friend of mine ( that builds woodcutting machines) to use one of his machines and mill my top beams in order to come in the same plane ( but this will cost).


I want to ask
#1 ( very important to know what I am trying for )
When you measure the flatness of a beam ( or epoxy surface) against a straight edge, what is the acceptable tolerance-gap ( so we assume the surface is straight) . I use light to understand whether my top beams attach the straight edge. The touching points can be easily seen. But at other points althought i can see that there is no touch ( light passes through) , the 0,02mm Gap Filler cant pass through the gap. So what is the critical gap ? the light passing test ( that is less than 0,02mm ) or the 0,02mm gap filler test?

#2
When someone use the solution with the adjustable top beams ( without epoxy) or the shimming method how does he succeed to have the top rails in the same plane. How does he know when the two rails ( left and right ) are in the same plane? Is the thread method accurate ( the method that with the use of two threads you create the diagonals of the top rails like X. If the diagonals are in touch at the centre that means that the rails are in the same plane.

#3
When we use the epoxy method we first drill then tap then close the holes and then apply epoxy or we apply epoxy then drill and tap?

#3
What is the right angle to hold a single beveled straight edge? 90 degrees?45? something else?


Thanks for your time
Vagelis

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Originally Posted by ba99297

1. I read the hiwin maual and it says ( for carriages lubrcation ) to use lithium soap base grease. Is tha a MUST or i could use oil ( and what oil ) instead of grease.
2. Do we also lubricate the rails or only the carriages?

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1. I think if you use grease then the lithium is a must, but oil can be used, Jonathan used it here for example; http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/6484-...strong-machine
I get the correct grease here; http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Auto...se+400g/p89691
2. Lubricate the carriages only, they will pass lubrication onto the rails.

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Originally Posted by ba99297

#3
When we use the epoxy method we first drill then tap then close the holes and then apply epoxy or we apply epoxy then drill and tap?
#4
What is the right angle to hold a single beveled straight edge? 90 degrees?45? something else?

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3. I drilled and tapped all the holes after I poured the epoxy, there were no problems by doing this.
4. 90 degrees because you do not want the straight edge to bend in the middle.

I've been working on my machine this evening, and I think that we are a very similar stage of build! I was levelling the frame of my machine (similar size - cutting area about 1500x750) and thinking about epoxy. I have already bought my epoxy (Reactive Resins low-viscosity with slow hardener) but they say that it should not be used below 8C. In my part of the UK at the moment, that's about the night-time temperature and daytime is only about 12C (and probably slightly cooler in my garage).

As well as I can measure it, I have a dip in my rails of about 1.3mm in the centre. Not as accurate as I would like - not sure if it was a bend in the original 100x50 box sections, or welding distortion - but I think that that will be fine with epoxy. However, I could shim it, if I can find some suitable material. Epoxy has the advantage of also bringing both rails into the same plane, of course, which would be much more difficult with shims (tapered shims, anyone?). What I don't know is what kind of tolerance you need to work to with Hiwin rails - what kind of relative twist in the two rails is OK? If both rails are perfectly horizontal in both planes but one is, say, 1mm higher than the other, would this matter? On my machine, that is a twist in the bearing block of about 0.06deg, or 0.001mm across the rail. Doesn't sound like a lot to me, but I have no practical experience of the real-world tolerances on these things.

I'm planning to epoxy first and drill/tap through the epoxy and rail later. My feeling is that this will be easier, and certainly better than trying to remove the epoxy that has leaked into the tapped holes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ba99297

#1 ( very important to know what I am trying for )
When you measure the flatness of a beam ( or epoxy surface) against a straight edge, what is the acceptable tolerance-gap ( so we assume the surface is straight) . I use light to understand whether my top beams attach the straight edge. The touching points can be easily seen. But at other points althought i can see that there is no touch ( light passes through) , the 0,02mm Gap Filler cant pass through the gap. So what is the critical gap ? the light passing test ( that is less than 0,02mm ) or the 0,02mm gap filler test?

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I looked to see if it was tight fit. All theory evaporates when you are trying to check 3m rails, flashlight in your mouth , in a tight garage holding 14kg straight edge. Just dont be in a rush, call somebody to help you, prepare good flashlight and look every 15cm if all is ok. Hold the straight edge with not much pressure, scrape it around and try to feel if all is same or ok. At the end the sound and feel helps more than the eyes at that exercise

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Originally Posted by ba99297

#2
When someone use the solution with the adjustable top beams ( without epoxy) or the shimming method how does he succeed to have the top rails in the same plane. How does he know when the two rails ( left and right ) are in the same plane? Is the thread method accurate ( the method that with the use of two threads you create the diagonals of the top rails like X. If the diagonals are in touch at the center that means that the rails are in the same plane.

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At the end it seems they use eye and feel. That doesn't mean really its very precise or of real importance. In reality, measuring between 1800mm separated rails, i can lift one of the rails 1mm and it will still seem to you checking with the edge that all is ok and they are on the same plane. Cause the judge contact area is very small. That is what i discovered the other day. But on the other side if it looks straight and both rails look to be on the same plane checked against straight edge, thats enough good. Cause later when the bed is surfaced say you make a 20cm detail. If your table is wrong say 0.5mm, which is tremendous in my eyes, the 20cm detail will still be made to 0.05 or better. The other point being here that all long and large pieces made on a cnc really don't need such precision/wood, mdf/ or just the temperature difference /expansion overrules the actual machine precision.
However in the future i intend to do gantries, surfacing for small machines and similar stuff in aluminum, that's why i pushed my build for perfection and wasted so much money on epoxies. But that's my explanation of thing, it came to my mind the other day when i was trying to shim my right long rail cause there was some new problem with the epoxy that i have not seen.

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Originally Posted by Neale

I've been working on my machine this evening, and I think that we are a very similar stage of build! I was levelling the frame of my machine (similar size - cutting area about 1500x750) and thinking about epoxy. I have already bought my epoxy (Reactive Resins low-viscosity with slow hardener) but they say that it should not be used below 8C. In my part of the UK at the moment, that's about the night-time temperature and daytime is only about 12C (and probably slightly cooler in my garage).

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I have done the first machine at 14-16C, but i believe any lower is not good idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

What I don't know is what kind of tolerance you need to work to with Hiwin rails - what kind of relative twist in the two rails is OK? If both rails are perfectly horizontal in both planes but one is, say, 1mm higher than the other, would this matter? On my machine, that is a twist in the bearing block of about 0.06deg, or 0.001mm across the rail. Doesn't sound like a lot to me, but I have no practical experience of the real-world tolerances on these things.

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For 20 size z1 preload :
-mounting surface parallelism 0.02mm
-block mounting surface 0.01mm

It will withstand more, just loosing life expectancy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

I'm planning to epoxy first and drill/tap through the epoxy and rail later. My feeling is that this will be easier, and certainly better than trying to remove the epoxy that has leaked into the tapped holes.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ba99297

#2
How does he know when the two rails ( left and right ) are in the same plane?
Vagelis

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Hi Vagelis,

As I see you have a longer distance than 1 m to bridge with linear edge
As far as I am concerned when I am get ready to the implementation, one of the 1st thing to buy will be a linear edge and a machine level (and so on).
With machine level you can detect 0,02 mm deviation in 1 m with helping a good linear edge and additionally you can check the single rail twisting, leveling exactly.
I suppose this is the easy way to work in the horizontal plane

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

bearing block of about 0.06deg, or 0.001mm across the rail.

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any CNC producer can be happy with this. I am just wonder how did you measured this 0,001 mm?

Something came to my mind. When doing the epoxy thing, they both should be one temperature with the frame. Means Not pour and then turn the heater on as it would be a disaster. bring a heater to the workshop, turn it on for a couple of hours so the epoxy and the frame will be one temperature. Then leave it for overnight while the epoxy is cured.

regarding to the epoxy itself it seems good thing against vibration too .
Pls advise about the strength and hardness with comparing to ie. AL.
When one bolts onto a rail with M6-is its compression negligible?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vargai

any CNC producer can be happy with this. I am just wonder how did you measured this 0,001 mm?

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I didn't measure this directly. It's based on a difference in heights of rail of 1mm and a rail spacing of 1m. Looking at the hiwin catalogue, I think they say that the bearing blocks can tolerate a slight rotation around the rail, and a height difference of 0.26mm (20mm rail, 1m spacing). This is a lot more than the figure that Silyavski has given, but I might have misunderstood something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neale

I didn't measure this directly. It's based on a difference in heights of rail of 1mm and a rail spacing of 1m. Looking at the hiwin catalogue, I think they say that the bearing blocks can tolerate a slight rotation around the rail, and a height difference of 0.26mm (20mm rail, 1m spacing). This is a lot more than the figure that Silyavski has given, but I might have misunderstood something.

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Only the 1 micron (you wrote 0.001mm) seemed to tight. The angle is correct, the level deviation on 20 mm is 0,02 as my dwg says
It is one magnitude bigger but I do not think it has too big impact on a router-by the way I would not be satisfied either with 1 mm on 1 m because deviations accumulates according to the Murphy catalogue
http://www.mycncuk.com/attachment.ph...id=13953&stc=1

Perfectly correct, Vargai - I forgot to multiply the "1 in a 1000" ratio by the width of the rail. I've slapped my own wrist...

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Originally Posted by Neale

Perfectly correct, Vargai - I forgot to multiply the "1 in a 1000" ratio by the width of the rail. I've slapped my own wrist...

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I would not have intact body portion so just meant to understand you

Hello everybody
I am happy that i restart my project
Many things had happened during the last year, that make me stop any kind of progress
That until August when i decide to restart, but first i had to make some changes in my working place
The most important was that the floor was worn and all these years was a source of dust.
That was the situation before
Attachment 17442Attachment 17443Attachment 17444

I decided that i must lay tiles and keep one place with some kind of heavy duty concrete, in order to be able to weld, as tiles even if they are very hard though they are not suitable for such jobs
First i had to clear the floor from old paint
Two days of water blasting with my karcher finally make possible this
Attachment 17445Attachment 17446Attachment 17447

Then i begun to lay tiles
Attachment 17448Attachment 17449
It was the first time for me that i lay tiles in such a big scale ( 80 m2), and i lay them diagonally
Finally the result is this


Attachment 17450Attachment 17451Attachment 17452
I had the chance to paint. I decide to paint with oil paint the first one meter and the rest with water color
Attachment 17453Attachment 17454Attachment 17454
Then i had to make the "baby room". Yes thats right!!!! the place that i will put the cnc. I had some old aluminum doors and i dont want to sell them for scrap. I also had some drop ceiling parts, so i use them all and i made this
Attachment 17455Attachment 17456Attachment 17457
Yesterday i move the frame and all the components in order to restart building
Attachment 17458Attachment 17459Attachment 17460Attachment 17461

As you can see the machine is rolling on 4 wheels. That makes the removal of the machine very easy
Finally the "baby" get in the new house
Attachment 17462Attachment 17463Attachment 17464
So Today i start working again on the machine.
Nice feeling
First i had to cut some ruber parts for the adjustable feets
Attachment 17465Attachment 17466Attachment 17467

So far that is my progress
I will continue tomorrow
Thanks for your time
Vagelis

Looking Good Vagelis. Nice and cool. . .:cool:

Dean thanks for your good words
As more than a year has passed since my last attemp of rails intalation, today i go on
I had some questions that i wrote 1,5 year ago (30-11-2014 #171).
I repeat them in order to understand what level of accuracy i have to achieve

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#1 ( very important to know what I am trying for )
When you measure the flatness of a beam ( or epoxy surface) against a straight edge, what is the acceptable tolerance-gap ( so we assume the surface is straight) . I use light to understand whether my top beams attach the straight edge. The touching points can be easily seen. But at other points althought i can see that there is no touch ( light passes through) , the 0,02mm Gap Filler cant pass through the gap. So what is the critical gap ? the light passing test ( that is less than 0,02mm ) or the 0,02mm gap filler test?

#2
When someone use the solution with the adjustable top beams ( without epoxy) or the shimming method how does he succeed to have the top rails in the same plane. How does he know when the two rails ( left and right ) are in the same plane?

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Hiwin maual (among others) has this table that says ( if i read right the table) that the height H of a rail has a range +- 0.1 mm for normal accuracy rails
http://www.mycncuk.com/image/png;bas...AAAElFTkSuQmCC

Attachment 17482
Thanks for your time
Vagelis

A little progress today
This is a try to level my cnc before i go on with hiwin rails.
I use an aluminum spirit level and a digital Protractor Inclinometer that has a permanent tilt of 2o against earth level ( upper value on lcd screen) after it dropped from my hands.
What is important is the relative angle
Here is the result.
If somebody has something to say about the previous post #186 questions, i will be glad to hear

Thanks for you time
https://youtu.be/2yhukWVv7NQ
https://youtu.be/2yhukWVv7NQ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ba99297

Dean thanks for your good words
As more than a year has passed since my last attemp of rails intalation, today i go on
I had some questions that i wrote 1,5 year ago (30-11-2014 #171).
I repeat them in order to understand what level of accuracy i have to achieve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 ( very important to know what I am trying for )
When you measure the flatness of a beam ( or epoxy surface) against a straight edge, what is the acceptable tolerance-gap ( so we assume the surface is straight) . I use light to understand whether my top beams attach the straight edge. The touching points can be easily seen. But at other points althought i can see that there is no touch ( light passes through) , the 0,02mm Gap Filler cant pass through the gap. So what is the critical gap ? the light passing test ( that is less than 0,02mm ) or the 0,02mm gap filler test?

#2
When someone use the solution with the adjustable top beams ( without epoxy) or the shimming method how does he succeed to have the top rails in the same plane. How does he know when the two rails ( left and right ) are in the same plane?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hiwin maual (among others) has this table that says ( if i read right the table) that the height H of a rail has a range +- 0.1 mm for normal accuracy rails
http://www.mycncuk.com/image/png;bas...AAAElFTkSuQmCC

Attachment 17482
Thanks for your time
Vagelis

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#1
For me its very simple. Depends on table size. For under 1m everything more than 0.05 anywhere is unacceptable. For bigger tables 0.1 deviation on height is the limit. So hiwin is right.
Now i want to tell you that it took me a week to mount my 2 long rails . I mounted them and dismounted them 5 times, not counting the 3 pours of epoxy. So at thend depends what you will use the machine for.

My standard is very simple. if i can notice a gap with naked eye, its unacceptable. Be it 1m or 10 meters table.


#2
yeah, thats why i dont like this method. Ask Dean. But it should be possible if you of course have straight edge that can lay on top of both of them at the same time. i doubt though you could achieve same precision as with epoxy

Boyan thanks for your answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski

#1
For me its very simple. Depends on table size. For under 1m everything more than 0.05 anywhere is unacceptable. For bigger tables 0.1 deviation on height is the limit. So hiwin is right.

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I guess when you measure in mm, so when you say 0.05 you mean 0,05mm and when you say 0.1 you mean 0.1mm right?

So even if i can see light pass between the rail and the straight edge but the 0,02mm filler strip can’t pass through the gap you think is OK for a 1800mm long table?
Really after epoxy cure, when you attach the straight edge on the epoxy surface is there any gap between the epoxy and the straight edge? The epoxy surface is perfectly flat against the straight edge? If the answer is YES i have an idea here

http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/9511-...t-work?p=76521

Vagelis

Yes, i meant in mm. But to tell you the truth i found that the hardest thing is to avoid for dust not to get trapped in between when mounting, cause that could f%%ck all previously achieved precision. When i lay the rails i lay the edge first and scrap them against the epoxy so no dust goes trapped there. And there is a lot of particles of it even in a new workshop :-)

My straight edge was perfectly flat against he epoxy when i was happy with the result. But even in my best result, at one end of the bed under one of the rails there was need to shim / if you read the whole thread about my machine you will remember that i was experimenting a lot with the epoxy pour, so i found the way to do it properly/

So yes, to your idea about the DIY epoxy straight edge, but remember the main thing i discovered when pouring 3m rails, i needed to over extend the epoxy both sides 25cm/?? read the thread again but make it so to be on the safe side/ so it shrinks there, after that just cut it to the size of the profile.Similar to what you will do with the meniscus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski

#2 i doubt though you could achieve same precision as with epoxy

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So when leveling across the planes, not the Rail length I mean planer level, what precision do you get with Epoxy then Boyan.? . . . . . If you can quote me figures then how are you measuring it.?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

So when leveling across the planes, not the Rail length I mean planer level, what precision do you get with Epoxy then Boyan.? . . . . . If you can quote me figures then how are you measuring it.?

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I was writing it down and knew you would say something :-)

Very soon i will be able to answer to you question with numbers, when i move my machine against the straight edge.


But what i was saying is: its almost impossible for you to level better the rails than the gravity levels the epoxy, speaking about them being in the same horizontal plane. measurable or not - its a fact. For me at least.

How do i know that? It was very difficult for me to straighten them left right and square them, with a helper, i could only imagine the nightmare of making them horizontal too at the same time. The thing is- i dont lie to my self, i am very sincere person and i know when i can not do truly properly something. So i am not pretending. fact is that i am also very precise and detailed person. With 2 words- if i could not do it 95% of people will not do it at all. Not to speak that how many people at the forum have 2m straight edge.

I know you have long edge, i know you do it that way, but dont compare your expertise to the people learning how to do a thing.I will not encourage any body do it that way, because IMO its the more difficult way. So what i am saying- epoxy is the way for me , not detachable sides.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski

I know you have long edge, i know you do it that way, but dont compare your expertise to the people learning how to do a thing.I will not encourage any body do it that way, because IMO its the more difficult way. So what i am saying- epoxy is the way for me , not detachable sides.

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Boyan I don't have a problem with Epoxy Method and I use my self because it's quick and accurate enough for any wood router. I do have problem with people quoteing accuracy and tolerences they can't possibly measure or verify. You do this and I feel it's wrong because your guessing and giving people the wrong idea. Your input to Forum is great and appreciated by many, me included and please don't take offence. But personaly it irratates me to see figures quoted, not just by you but also others that can't be verified or should say they don't have the means to verify.

The simple fact is unless you can have the base Surfaced in one go on machine then your accurecy is limited to the tools and care you take. Unless you can measure from Accurate surface plate or CMM machine to measure tolerences then your purely guessing or assuming tolerences.

Over building and Fantasy tolerences are not required for any router designed for mostly for wood. Also if machine this size is to be used for cutting aluminium then again the tolerences needed are still low because it will be mostly limited to and probably used mostly for profile cutting and maybe the odd pocket which most decently strong routers can manage.
It can't and will not have the tolerences needed for anything more challenging like Mould making in aluminium or harder materials without being done properly surfaced. Also at this size it would need to be substantialy stronger to be any good and last any length of time if used in more industrial way.!

Just because you can cut steel with a machine built at DIY level doesn't mean it does it very well or can do it for long.!! . . . . . To think otherwsie is foolish.!


People need to be realistic and stop quoting tolerences and accuracys they can't possible verify.! They also need to calm down and realise over building isn't clever or wise it's mostly just wasted money for the type of work they do with the machine. It also often compromises the machine if they don't match other components to there over built frames whcih they rarely do.!!

Plenty of readings regarding the accuracy in my build log.

Of course that says nothing about what might happen in the months after pouring, if the frame isn't stress relieved...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonathan

Plenty of readings regarding the accuracy in my build log.

Of course that says nothing about what might happen in the months after pouring, if the frame isn't stress relieved...

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Bit of difference in size Jonathan it's 2x width and 3 x length.!!

Thanks everybody for your answers
Reading all these useful comments I want to say that I this machine won’t be used to achieve magic tolerances. As Dean said
“…router designed for mostly for wood……… is to be used for cutting aluminum then again the tolerances needed are still low because it will be mostly limited to and probably used mostly for profile cutting”

To be honest I don’t know yet what exactly I am going to use the machine for. I just build a “weapon for hunting” I have never been in the “forest” before with that kind of automated “weapons”. Till now I hunt with catapult (traditional handy tools).
I get involved with many kinds of materials ( wood, steel, alloy) and like to mix them in my construction. That is why the machine is a middle solution (all around machine). That of course means that when you earn in one level you will miss in another level. I think an all purpose machine is impossible to be build as there are parameters opposite each other ( accuracy vs size, stiffness vs light weight and all these vs cost ). The main principal that I try to achieve ( not only in cnc construction but also in my way of life ) is to have the best value for money. So I am trying to achieve the better result with the means and the efforts that I have.
The added value of course at this attempt is your help, even your well disposed disagreements that make me understand things better. In my country we use to say that “sciolism is worst than ignorance”. Many times here in mycncuk I realized that I had sciolism for many aspects that had to do with constructions. Many myths in my mind have been basted especially with Deans help who is something more than an “auto-answer machine” . I could not not mention Jonathans help especially through his Servo sizing software and his inspired constructions, and also I cant forget that the main idea for my machine frame, come out from Syliavskis thread. And all the others that these last months participate to encourage me, correct me, and generally help go one step beyond. I know that I am not too fast in making steps, but I also know that ( for me ) the most important is to make small steps than trivially jumps. This attempt for me is like a trip. I prefer to make the “trip” with a slow train looking “out of the window” , more than ride a fast car and reach the end some days earlier. A Greek poem describes it better. Whoever want to read it (in English ) can find it here
http://www.cavafy.com/poems/content.asp?cat=1&id=74
Thanks for your time

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Originally Posted by ba99297

In my country we use to say that “sciolism is worst than ignorance”.

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"Sciolism" that's got to be word of the Day Vagelis. (I had to look it up) . . . . In my part of the country it would be called " Talking Bullshit " and yes lots of Sciolism goes on in Forums. . :devilish:

Dean you know more than anyone that my English are not good
Often i use Google translation


Attachment 17536
Even (as other say) i use the Greek language very good, i cant say the same about English
So i have no tension to show that i know and use rare words, i just try to find the appropriate word and the only "friend" here is Google. For me was the first time I saw this word (sciolism)
To be more specific the word in Greece is "ημιμάθεια" that come from the words "ημι"=half + "μάθηση"=knowledge, so you could say that "ημιμάθεια"=half knowledge of a subject, and we use that word for people who don’t have a full knowledge of a subject, they know only some aspects of the subject and in the same time they talk as they know everything about it.. Other Greeks that follows the thread I think they know what I mean.

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Originally Posted by ba99297

[FONT="]Dean you know more than anyone that my English are not good

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Vagelis your English my friend is better than mine and I know Zero Greek so your way in front.!!

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Originally Posted by JAZZCNC

Vagelis your English my friend is better than mine and I know Zero Greek so your way in front.!!

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Google gives me two words
#1 Humble
#2 Modest
both words with the first letter capital
You choose which one I should use to characterize you
Lets change «channel». For a moment I thought that we are in a literary forum…